Green Monster Games - Curt Schilling

Desx said:

Ah well.. I miss the old games where you killed people and took all their shit.. and they killed you and took all your shit. So then you get your friends together and dominate.. and then they get theirs... and by the end of the night one person(s) has everything and is a badss until the next day when hes gang banged by 20 people.. then it all happens all over again.. the good ole days.

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Problem is, from a business perspective, those were the good old days for about 100-300K people at most. That"s saying that every person in UO felt that way, which they didn"t, but UO was the ONLY option at the time.

Once EQ came out, and then others, how many people left those "good old days" memories? Lots.

Not being a PvP guy UO was what I played, because it lived in a vacuum. It was fun for me, to a point. there is ABSOLUTELY something PVP offers that PVE does not and that was real life AI and a sense of foreboding every time you left the safety of a town guard, and later in game even when STANDING next to a town guard.

I don"t miss the "good old days" one bit.

Rezz said:

The vast majority of PVP servers filled up on release and post release because the general consensus amongst most hyped players before release lay in the concept that PVE servers only contained PVE, and that PVP servers contained both. . . !"

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No, the vast majority on the pvp servers knew exactly what it was, a pvp server where you can kill each other while playing the game. The people who went PVE wanted to just play the game with out fear of being randomly attacked. The whole point of the game is Horde vs. Alliance, but there was a market for people wanting a carebear experience.

Ngruk said:

. . . I don"t miss the "good old days" one bit.

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Wussyboy ;p

Tho actually I never liked the harsh pvp ruleset games either. I really do like how WOW set it up where you can go pvp server and fight, or you can go pve server and explore the content and again pvp brought through their BGS and Arenas, except they need to expand those damn maps more.

My heart NEVER raced when I would kill mobs as I leveled. My heart usually raced whenever I got attacked by another player.

Question Max, does your heart race when you get ganked with zero chance of survivability? And by race, do you mean it"s exciting or frustrating? I"m interested on your actual stance on world pvp.

That"s the thing I notice about everyone who misses "the good old days" in regards to mmos and pvp. The only people who miss it were those (generally) who were big on the ganking/exploiting side of things, and rarely if ever on the fair fight side of things. I don"t care how hardcore you think/thought you were in any mmo, nobody enjoys or gets excited when they are killed with zero chance at retaliation. The only racing is the blood pressure rising.

I"m still fairly certain you are wrong Max in regards to WoW, though I think it"s more of a perspective issue than an actual disagreement. You"re looking at the PVP as what players do, hence it being the draw. I"m looking at the game mechanics and content organization and saying PVE is the draw. My only contention is the game would still be doing pretty well if it didn"t incorporate any pvp whatosever, but without npcs and the entire leveling/content side of things, the game would be a super half assed counterstrike impersonation and nobody would play it.

Rezz said:

Question Max, does your heart race when you get ganked with zero chance of survivability? And by race, do you mean it"s exciting or frustrating? . . .

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When I got ganked with zero chance of survivability I shrugged. But when you entered a red zone from a safe zone there absolutely was more excitement to it. I had many "fair" fights and they were a hell of a lot of fun. I left the pvp server for the pve one once they started the whole ill-thought out honor system and when BGs came out since then I didn"t want to just get farmed for honor, which was happening.

Maxxius said:

When I got ganked with zero chance of survivability I shrugged. But when you entered a red zone from a safe zone there absolutely was more excitement to it. I had many "fair" fights and they were a hell of a lot of fun. I left the pvp server for the pve one once they started the whole ill-thought out honor system and when BGs came out since then I didn"t want to just get farmed for honor, which was happening.

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Woops, I was referring to UO. But I catch your drift.

I don"t think anyone can plausibly deny that PvP is hugely popular in WoW. Did it bring more people to the game than it otherwise would have? Almost undeniably so.. but the one thing it did show is that while many people out there may enjoy PvP in an MMO they enjoy it under controlled circumstances. No itemloot, no exp penalties, no long timeouts.. just pure unadultered brawling where you could choose when and where to participate.

Twobit Whore said:

... but the one thing it did show is that while many people out there may enjoy PvP in an MMO they enjoy it under controlled circumstances. No itemloot, no exp penalties, no long timeouts.. just pure unadultered brawling where you could choose when and where to participate.

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Yup.

Watching CNBC now and they just had a segment on MMORPGS. They even mentioned Curt"s name, so Curt you might want to get a replay of it. The analysts were basically arguing how MMORPGS would wipe out the console market heheh.

Hey Rayne, MMOs arn"t main stream right?

MMOs aren"t going to wipe out the console market. The most popular console games already have heavy online components (Halo, Guitar Hero, Rock Band, Call of Duty, and so on) and classic series that haven"t yet are trying to get in on it as well (Metal Gear Online).

The next generation of consoles will focus even more heavily on online play and you will start seeing a vast amount of games with MMORPG elements in them, even if they aren"t RPGs. Subscriptions fees, downloadable content, content patches, etc. We"re already seeing the start of it now.

Draegan said:

Hey Rayne, MMOs arn"t main stream right?

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"Video gaming" as a whole perhaps. But mmos in general? Not yet. Getting there? Sure. Call me when mmo gaming is as common as console gaming. Doubtful it will ever reach that point until the choices for subject matter are as diverse. You"re delusional if you think its even remotely close yet.

MMOs wiping out console games? Please.

about a 50 min video from New York Comic-Con

38 Studios Presentation at NY Comic-Con Video | Ten Ton Hammer

I"m surprised no one asked about content updates and what plans there were to keep people satisfied between them. I know with WoW my biggest gripe (pre-Naxx, as I quit before then) was how unbearably slow Blizzard was with new places to explore or dungeons to raid, even if MC had been on farm status for months.

Decent video, I"m a little disappointed they didn"t tease us with at least some real concept art or some minor info about the world though. I really liked Salvatore"s bit. I think he understands what it takes to make a compelling MMO world and how it differs from just writing a novel, and I"m glad he mentioned making the player feel like a hero, which is a topic we just discussed in this thread a few pages back.

The questions from the audience were disappointing, surely they could"ve thought of more interesting things to ask.

Twobit Whore said:

I don"t think anyone can plausibly deny that PvP is hugely popular in WoW. Did it bring more people to the game than it otherwise would have? Almost undeniably so.. but the one thing it did show is that while many people out there may enjoy PvP in an MMO they enjoy it under controlled circumstances. No itemloot, no exp penalties, no long timeouts.. just pure unadultered brawling where you could choose when and where to participate.

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That doesn"t make any sense.

TBH, I fucking hate when people loot my items. I fucking hate when people cause me to lose XP. I fucking hate it when I sit in a long time out.

But in no way does that mean I hate MMO"s that have item looting, xp loss, and timeouts. Quite the opposite actually.

Then maybe you aren"t one of those "many people"?

It makes perfect sense. FPSes are hugely popular, online RTSes are hugely popular. Competitive games that pit players vs. players are hugely popular but what hasn"t been hugely popular is having effort expended in a game taken away as a result of a loss to another player.

Grave said:

MMOs aren"t going to wipe out the console market. The most popular console games already have heavy online components (Halo, Guitar Hero, Rock Band, Call of Duty, and so on) and classic series that haven"t yet are trying to get in on it as well (Metal Gear Online).

The next generation of consoles will focus even more heavily on online play and you will start seeing a vast amount of games with MMORPG elements in them, even if they aren"t RPGs. Subscriptions fees, downloadable content, content patches, etc. We"re already seeing the start of it now.

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I think you need to get off the online play hype wagon for the next 5 years.

NPD already revealed how underutilized online play is used by console gamers. Online gaming is the future but it hasn"t caught nearly as much as this post insinuates.

Twobit Whore said:

Then maybe you aren"t one of those "many people"?

It makes perfect sense. FPSes are hugely popular, online RTSes are hugely popular. Competitive games that pit players vs. players are hugely popular but what hasn"t been hugely popular is having effort expended in a game taken away as a result of a loss to another player.

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I don"t know what I am attempting to argue with this statement as I am a little drunk, but Online poker is insanely popular now and the popularity is amongst the people playing for real money.

They are going against other people and losing things,not just virtual items and time but real money and the time it took to earn that. I am not big on the losing my shit in games to people,if it is random vendor bought crap then whatever,like in EVE for example I just don"t buy anything expensive cause I know I am going to die. Games like WoW, I leved a Horde character on PvP , you know just so I could be hardcore or whatever. I never once initiated combat with any alliance I passed,though I would always fight back if provoked. I liked that, from an RP perspective it worked for me, but if it was a case of being attacked around every corner I never would have participated in it, it just bores me since the majority of folks that actively sought people out,waited until said people were in some weakened state and then attacked them. From a predator point of view that makes sense because that is what a predator wil ldo ,but when you are the prey it isn"t so entertaining....

FPS, RTs all the players arrive in those games looking for a fight,they don"t do the predator prey thing to the extent that people do it in MMO"s, maybe there is less on the line but I don"t think so. To most I think their pride means more to them than the kill and in an FPs when it"s last man standing and the entire server that is dead has their eye on you,you want to kill the enemy just to not be a failure. There is a different incentive to those style of players than there is in MMO"s, maybe because I am such an Avd FPs gamer is the reason behind my distatse of the general Mechanics of MMO style PVP, I dunno.