Green Monster Games - Curt Schilling

I don"t think so as the problems carried over from rather different games like DAoC, Oblivion and even Civilization 4.

All of them had problems with memory management and not so great performance overall, it also looks like SpeedTree makes these problems even more critical.

I"m all for companies that build their own technology as I continue to think it"s a part that should be involved directly with game design (while others think the exact opposite). But sometimes I understand it"s not a choice.

It"s also worth considering that WoW is also great because Blizzard developed with the time really good tools. The consistence of the graphic style isn"t all due to the art, but also to the technology and tools they use (like the unique way the outdoor areas look).

Ngruk said:

Quality at launch is all of them

You"re fooling yourself if you don"t think that first 30 minutes, from purchase to account creation, character creation, opening cinematic, actual in game log in and playing 10-15 minutes isn"t just about the most crucial time in a games life.

The market is so incredibly saturated right now, and that won"t change imo, that if you don"t put a product out now that"s polished, front to back, on day one, you are costing yourself hundreds of thousands, to millions of customers.

I"d think approaching it any other way would be just piss poor management.

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This is so true. Look at the first 30 minutes of WoW compared to pretty much every other MMORPG. First thing you see upon install is the amazing cinematic, you make your character, get another nice cinematic and brief story on your race. Most of us at some point probably created a character of each race, just to see the cinematic of each of them.

After the cinematic, you start out right next to a guy with a big ! over his head. Even someone who had never played an MMORPG before sees that ! and clicks on the person. Compare to EQ2 where you are on a boat, killing a rat or something, then get ported off to the island, oh boy, this will be exciting to do again.

This conversation is heading back around to something I stated earlier that people aren"t going to want to hear for the most part, because I think it gives us a tad more credit than alot would like to give us.

Todd can draw the most epic art we"ve ever seen. R.A. can create something so brainbursting with content, so enthralling, so incredible.... But if we don"t have the engineers to back it all up with a fantastic game it will ultimately be what so many out there hope it is, 3 rich guys screwing up an MMO so horribly bad people will sign up just to see how bad it sucks.

It"s another perk of being who I am, and we are. I bet you there isn"t another company that"s ever started like we have, that"s had so many people PRAYING we crash and burn, or predicting we crash and burn like we have.

Hell I"ve heard it firsthand already. It such a great dynamic for me, for the simple fact that when it happens I won"t have to say "I told you so", we"ll be able to sit back and let the company and the game say it for us.

Ngruk said:

This conversation is heading back around to something I stated earlier that people aren"t going to want to hear for the most part, because I think it gives us a tad more credit than alot would like to give us.

Todd can draw the most epic art we"ve ever seen. R.A. can create something so brainbursting with content, so enthralling, so incredible.... But if we don"t have the engineers to back it all up with a fantastic game it will ultimately be what so many out there hope it is, 3 rich guys screwing up an MMO so horribly bad people will sign up just to see how bad it sucks.

It"s another perk of being who I am, and we are. I bet you there isn"t another company that"s ever started like we have, that"s had so many people PRAYING we crash and burn, or predicting we crash and burn like we have.
Hell I"ve heard it firsthand already. It such a great dynamic for me, for the simple fact thatwhen it happensI won"t have to say "I told you so", we"ll be able to sit back and let the company and the game say it for us.

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think you meant "when it doesnt happen" =p

what routes are you pursuing to sign up programmers/engineers/artists etc to your company? apologies if this was discussed earlier

Ngruk said:

It"s another perk of being who I am, and we are. I bet you there isn"t another company that"s ever started like we have, that"s had so many people PRAYING we crash and burn, or predicting we crash and burn like we have.

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Well being a game designer I know first hand what you mean, but personally I never want to see any company or game crash and burn (although voodoo dolls of the competition can make me sleep better at night sometimes ) But in the long run the greater the number of good companies out there producing great games only makes it better for my future career and for me as a game player.

I wish you guys the best at your endeavor, your starting with a great foundation and im looking forward to see what you and your company turn out

Erik

Has it been mentioned yet if GMG has made a stance for or against Instancing? Seems like wether to have it or not is something that needs to be decided earlier rather then later.

And how will GMG act towards the secondary market? Actively against it, ignore it, work with it, or implement your own.

Faille said:

Has it been mentioned yet if GMG has made a stance for or against Instancing? Seems like wether to have it or not is something that needs to be decided earlier rather then later..

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Why would you make a stand, even later in production, for or against something like that? If it works within the framwork of what you are creating then you use it, if it doesn"t, then don"t. Instancing, and the arguments for/against, is something that doesn"t need a hardcore line in the sand approach to imo, if it works good, if it doesn"t fine. Maybe it works within a component of your world, if so cool, maybe it doesn"t.

Faille said:

And how will GMG act towards the secondary market? Actively against it, ignore it, work with it, or implement your own.

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What do you mean by secondary market? That encompasses a ton of potential things, so I am not sure what specifically you are referring to.

All I ask is that you please reconsider making Yet Another High Fantasy Game.

I know you"ve accumulated all of this talent you have a lot of faith in, but the genre is so, so, so played out. All the talent in the world can"t save it.

Ngruk said:

Why would you make a stand, even later in production, for or against something like that? If it works within the framwork of what you are creating then you use it, if it doesn"t, then don"t. Instancing, and the arguments for/against, is something that doesn"t need a hardcore line in the sand approach to imo, if it works good, if it doesn"t fine. Maybe it works within a component of your world, if so cool, maybe it doesn"t.

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Well, companies haven"t been able to introduce a balance of instanced content vs. non-instanced content so far. It seems like it"s either a game well-designed to accommodate one or the other. Like you"ve said time and time again, though, GMG is looking to shake things up a bit in the MMO genre. A fluid mesh of instanced and non-instanced content would go a long way in accomplishing that goal.

Ngruk said:

What do you mean by secondary market? That encompasses a ton of potential things, so I am not sure what specifically you are referring to.

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I believe Faille is referring to players selling in-game money, accounts, and items to other people or companies (e.g. eBay, IGE) for real cash. Some games (WoW) take a "kick ass and take names" approach, while others (EQ2) provide a legit alternative to third-party salesfolk. What will you do about this market in regards to GMG"s title?

Getting into details would be pointless at this stage, but needless to say your real world income should not allow you an edge or a better experience in an online fantasy gaming world imo.

Ngruk said:

Getting into details would be pointless at this stage, but needless to say your real world income should not allow you an edge or a better experience in an online fantasy gaming world imo.

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Hmm, interesting comment from someone who"s real world income is allowing them to create the game they want to play. A bit hypocritical I would say.

I am so sick of the cum-ba-ya socilistic attitude of game designers where it is one big everyone is equal commune.

How about a dose of reality. If I make over a 100K a year and want to spend some of my disposable income on reducing the amount of my time that is wasted so be it. Of course if games were less time sinks and more skill vs looks/level/loot oriented then maybe a person wouldn"t have to play 12 hours / day to get something useful in game.

Curt, anytime you want some input from an older cynical cranky gamer with over 30 years in the computer industry who has played just about all the garbage that has been rolled out, drop me a PM.

gnomad said:

Hmm, interesting comment from someone who"s real world income is allowing them to create the game they want to play. A bit hypocritical I would say.

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right..

gnomad said:

Hmm, interesting comment from someone who"s real world income is allowing them to create the game they want to play. A bit hypocritical I would say.

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Umm, since when was spending money on a gaming studio, which you hope will make a profit, the same as going on omgWoWgold.com and spending $50?

Get a grip.

Dear Random Internet Retards:

If you can"t post in reply to a game dev/executive/whatever using a modicum of social skills, DON"T FUCKING POST.

I know that Curt can stick up for himself, but holy FUCK I am tired of seeing people here use the relative anonymity of the internet to say things that"d get the fuck beaten out of them in person.

gnomad said:

Hmm, interesting comment from someone who"s real world income is allowing them to create the game they want to play. A bit hypocritical I would say. .

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"

I wouldn"t. Since when does opening a studio to create computer games enter the same universe as buying virtual gold or items on ebay to progress my character in a game where I don"t want to, or can"t spend the time everyone else does, to progress in the world? It doesn"t.
A game that openly allows people to further their virtual life with real world money is wasting designers time. Oh I know you can"t stop it, it will happen, but just allowing it to happen while turning a blind eye is not something I am an advocate of.
Content, for the most part, is created for players to play through, not pay through.
Heck if I wanted that kind of world it"d be a pay to play world.

gnomad said:

I am so sick of the cum-ba-ya socilistic attitude of game designers where it is one big everyone is equal commune. .

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Sorry to see us lose a customer this early in the life of GMG I don"t want to create a world where people"s RL income puts them ahead in game, that"s what the real world is for. I go to these worlds and play these games for the social aspects of them, I think alot of other people do as well.

gnomad said:

How about a dose of reality. If I make over a 100K a year and want to spend some of my disposable income on reducing the amount of my time that is wasted so be it. Of course if games were less time sinks and more skill vs looks/level/loot oriented then maybe a person wouldn"t have to play 12 hours / day to get something useful in game.

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Well if you look at playing these games as "time wasted" then you"ve got other issues beyond this one. If the games make you feel like they contain time sinks and that time"s being wasted, then that"s the design fault, and your fault for continuing to play. THe challenge is to create a world where you do things without an eye towards the clock or your experience bar. That"s the challenge in alot of ways.

gnomad said:

Curt, anytime you want some input from an older cynical cranky gamer with over 30 years in the computer industry who has played just about all the garbage that has been rolled out, drop me a PM.

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Doesn"t look like I have to, looks like you"re offering the input anyway I"ve been a gamer for 25 years, I am pretty comfortable with my views on the gaming world and I certainly don"t look at the last 25 years as garbage time, far from it. I"m excited as hell at the history that"s in place, and GMGs ability to learn from it and not repeat mistakes that have been made.

It"s a huge challenge no question, but certainly not a bigger challenge than I"ve had to meet and beat before that"s for sure. I welcome it and am looking forward to the reaction to this company, and it"s people, a few years from now when it"s realized who we are and what we are doing. Pretty exciting stuff.

Long time lurker, first time poster. Looking forward to what you guys come up with. Having someone as accomplished as RA Salvatore and Todd McFarlane as part of the team gives an opportunity to see something special.

If you ever want to do some market research/focus groups send me a pm, Ill give you a discount from one gamer to another Course Id like to see some artwork or part of the game to get a feel for the project lol

Ngruk said:

Why would you make a stand, even later in production, for or against something like that? If it works within the framwork of what you are creating then you use it, if it doesn"t, then don"t. Instancing, and the arguments for/against, is something that doesn"t need a hardcore line in the sand approach to imo, if it works good, if it doesn"t fine. Maybe it works within a component of your world, if so cool, maybe it doesn"t.



What do you mean by secondary market? That encompasses a ton of potential things, so I am not sure what specifically you are referring to.

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Making a stand is probably the wrong term to use. More making a decision, since from many viewpoints it"s a decision I think should be made earlier rather then later. At least from a technical standpoint, the decision on which engine to use needs to factor in wether you want instancing or not. Likewise, from a design side, it can influence a lot of how you plan to create the world.

I like Sigil"s decision not to have any instancing at all in Vanguard, not because I think instancing is the devil, but because it will show a good modern alternative to having too much instancing, and I think that"s good for the genre as a whole.

Personally, I prefer not to have instancing in a game as much as possible, but there"s just too many cases where it is a better alternative and provides a better gaming experience to just discount it totally.

That said, any game is going to have a balance of instancing, and I was just curious if any decision had been made by GMG as to what sort of mix they would be aiming for.

Oh, and by Secondary Market, I Was refering to buying and selling in game currency for real money.

Personally I"m against it, but when you make the assumption that it"s going to happen no matter what, I prefer to see the game company itself profiting from it rather then some other company.

If you game makes you use gold like wow does for raiding, please dont hurt the poor chinese farmers.

if its like EQ as far as money spending went, go ahead, ban away.