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Grave_foh

shitlord
0
0
I wouldn"t want to level up another character to 60 just to do that, and I would be pissed if my main character could not get the level 60 title just because I was already 80 or beyond whenever they introduced this.

It"s a good idea, but I say look at FFXI"s deleveling for certain encounters, combined with the way EQ2 scales down gear and abilities during mentoring. Combine those, and let max level players do the level 60, 70, etc challenges and then I"m game.
 

Erumaron

ResetEra Staff Member
261
389
Grave said:
I wouldn"t want to level up another character to 60 just to do that, and I would be pissed if my main character could not get the level 60 title just because I was already 80 or beyond whenever they introduced this.

It"s a good idea, but I say look at FFXI"s deleveling for certain encounters, combined with the way EQ2 scales down gear and abilities during mentoring. Combine those, and let max level players do the level 60, 70, etc challenges and then I"m game.
Add to that BoA/Level Req style scaling (your MC loot is worth while at 80, if properly itemized) on stats on the items and you have TONS of new content.
 

Zarcath

Silver Squire
96
54
Grave said:
I wouldn"t want to level up another character to 60 just to do that, and I would be pissed if my main character could not get the level 60 title just because I was already 80 or beyond whenever they introduced this.

It"s a good idea, but I say look at FFXI"s deleveling for certain encounters, combined with the way EQ2 scales down gear and abilities during mentoring. Combine those, and let max level players do the level 60, 70, etc challenges and then I"m game.
Yeah, I"d be upset to if my 80 wasn"t eligible.

You know, it would be interesting if you could create Level 60"s and 70"s from the get go, if you have a level 80 (much like DK"s). Except these characters couldn"t gain experience, they"d be stuck at 60/70 forever. Then you could do old content, collect a set of level 60/70 gear. Get your Legacy gear, twink it to your main, twink it to alts.

I"d prefer an open scaling level/gear/encounter system, but I imagine something like that would have to be designed into the game from the get go.

Erumaron said:
Add to that BoA/Level Req style scaling (your MC loot is worth while at 80, if properly itemized) on stats on the items and you have TONS of new content.
Dude, that would probably be really easy to implement, given the ilvl formulas. Just make like 5-6 different templates (dps/caster/tank/dps) and grab some old world items, turn them into legacy items and attach that ilvl template to it.
 

tyen

EQ in a browser wait time: ____
<Banned>
4,638
5,164
Zehn - Vhex said:
Ice Comet was 1110~1120 originally. The nerf came ~3 years later or so. Again, the previous ice based nuke prior to the spell changes did 300 damage and rend was only doing about ~750 if I recall. Conflag was in the low 600"s.

Of course that all meant dick when Kunark came out and all we ever casted from then on was Lure.

Anyways...

But yeah, the big thing about ice comet, not including it"s ridiculous damage amount, was how you got it. The Staff of the Wheel quest was ridiculous fun, you didn"t mind that you got dick all for EXP for doing it because it resulted in fun, wanted rewards.

Nobody gave a shit about the name. I mean, yeah, spells should have cool names to begin with I feel. And if you want to attach lore and roleplay value to them, fine. But you don"t need to keep coming up with new ""Somebody on staff"s characters name" "synonym for fireball" of "synonym for ownage"" every time the spell ranks up.

Let"s make it look really silly. Let"s take "Hamstring" in WoW. The name gets the job done. Would you -really- feel more like a ferocious orc because instead of hamstringing your opponant you were executing, "Bitties Dastardly Strike at the Semitendinosus"?

Again, if you"re going to add roleplay value to your spells/abilities, make it in how you introduce them to your players by attaching quests to acquiring the spell.

Not by calling it, "Zehn"s Miraculous Melody of Monotonous Meandering" and saying, "SEE! IMMERSION! DON"T YOU FEEL IMMERSED?!"
Good post`
 

Zehnpai

Molten Core Raider
399
1,245
Zarcath said:
Design for reusability. Content during leveling doesn"t matter because designers don"t make it matter
Well, the job system is one easy way. I"m an altaholic so to speak and so I"ve done the 1-30+ game about 13 times now. Most are 70+ now.

I think the general consensus on heroic old world shit was that we"d much rather development time/dollars be spent on creating new zones rather then revamping old ones.

Because honestly, Naxx was the result of them adding a "heroic" mode to the old Naxx and look how that turned out. Yeah it was nice to see the old girl again but she"s got a beer gut and smells like ass.

All things considered, I"d much rather them make sure to add far more gimic items and flavor loot to the old world zones. If anything, put a semi-uncommon black drake from Onyxia, a whole collection of mini-me pets from Molten Core, etc...

The faction achievement and mounts from ZG make me willing to keep going back with some friends and pound that shit out but if we skip a week or two because I"m just not feelin" it I don"t feel like I"ve missed out on something.

Monster mode I"m also in favor of. Some dream-state NPC allowing you to play as Arugal defending against a group of "PC"s" and etc...

I"d also like to see them re-tune the low level instances to be duo/trio-able. Getting 5 people together to do SFK now is damn near impossible, but two-three people teaming up? Considering how many couples/RL friends/etc...play this game that"s not quite as much of a stretch. Ideally they"d remake up through the last expansion this way.
 

Toxxulian_foh

shitlord
0
0
All they need to do is add some type of alternative gear set like what eq2 has, who here wouldn"t want to go back to mc or bwl and get some felheart to put on? Obviously it wouldn"t effect your stats but it would be a way for your to go back and experience the old content and be able to change the way your character looks.

I don"t know about you, but after wearing the same gear for a couple of months it would be nice to change it up without effecting your stats. Also they could get rid of the class restrictions so a mage could wear warlock stuff, or just combined a couple so warriors aren"t running around in cloth, they could easily make magisters or felheart be warlock,mage,priest.
 

Zehnpai

Molten Core Raider
399
1,245
LOTRO had a neat feature I think where you could "save" your appearance even with gear swaps.
 

Ziggurat_foh

shitlord
0
0
Zehn - Vhex said:
LOTRO had a neat feature I think where you could "save" your appearance even with gear swaps.
yeah, lotro has seperate item slots that give you the visual of whatever you equip in them, but not the stats. it"s the same thing as in eq2, except lotro gives you multiple "sets" of slots so you can have a couple different looks.
 

James

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
2,804
7,056
Zehn - Vhex said:
But yeah, the big thing about ice comet, not including it"s ridiculous damage amount, was how you got it. The Staff of the Wheel quest was ridiculous fun, you didn"t mind that you got dick all for EXP for doing it because it resulted in fun, wanted rewards.
Pfft. Real men researched it from the runes that dropped pre-Quest.
 

Flight

Molten Core Raider
1,230
288
Cross posting this from the SoE thread. In short, designers need to decide as early as possible if their game is going to cater to holders of multiple accounts/boxers.




Elerion said:
1. You speed the game up and increase interaction required, which makes multiboxing harder - see WoW relative to EQ.

I"ve touched on this numerous times. MMO designers need to decide early on if they are going to support multiple accounts and boxing. If they decide they aren"t remove /follow from the game goes 90% of the way to eliminating it. Two points :


i) multiple accounts and boxing make up a large part of the customer base; I would be surprised if its less than 40%.

ii) no game has taken multiple accounts and boxing into account at the design stage;

...iia) thats a huge part of the customer base whose needs are not being taken into account;
...iiib) the fact their game play is not considered at design stage is a big part of the reason boxers annoy non-boxers.


Small things - eg making mobs drop a quest item for everyone in the group, not just one person - would make a difference. Boxers "control" areas of the game sometimes because it takes so much longer to get the items they need.

Instanced, repeatable content you port into that are mainly tank and spank cater to boxers and get them out of the hair of non boxers.

Even slightly more complex encounters than tank and spank discourage the majority of boxers. Balance the two types of encounter in instance runs in line with how/if you are catering to boxers.



We need to start thinking out of the box and realize that we can have it all. Some people like boxing, some people like grouping, some people like soloing. The main point is that it has to be foundational - you cannot plug in whole new directions for gameplay, as EQ2 has tried to do, over the years.



1) Introduce repeatable, instanced content, where you can accrue rewards and that are straight tank and spank. Hey, the game has content for boxers.

2) Utilise the job system we have been discussing across threads. Even boxers have mains. There are numerous reasons why this would help the boxing issue and promote non boxing.


Designers need to understand boxers; so do people who don"t box. I box a lot, but I prefer to group. Why not have content that covers it all ? Of course, remove /follow and there"s nothing else to consider.
 

Araxen

Golden Baronet of the Realm
10,447
7,840
Why would any dev cut off the extra revenue generated from multi-boxing especially in this age of everything being instanced. Seems dumb to me.
 

Zehnpai

Molten Core Raider
399
1,245
Especially when there"s no effective way to prevent it. Even if you remove /follow, there"s clonekey. And even if you somehow prevent that, there"s still synergy which is impossible to prevent players from using.

You"re imagining a problem where there is none.
 

Araxen

Golden Baronet of the Realm
10,447
7,840
It just comes down to people being jealous that people can multi-box just like twinking was such a huge problem back in the day. All it came down too was jealously. There was never anything wrong with twinking just like there is nothing wrong with multi-boxing.
 

Caliane

Avatar of War Slayer
15,320
11,611
Araxen said:
It just comes down to people being jealous that people can multi-box just like twinking was such a huge problem back in the day. All it came down too was jealously. There was never anything wrong with twinking just like there is nothing wrong with multi-boxing.
Well, twinking in a pvp game, gives an unfair advantage. There needs to be a semblance of an even playing field. Giving enjoyment to the few "twinks" at the expense of everyone else, isn"t a good design plan.
Not that I think twinks shouldn"t exist. Its fun. I just think there should be a way to keep new players from being thrown into the same field as a twink to get slaughtered.
With instanced pvped, brackets and leaderboards at all levels would solve this. Twinks would "outrank" newbies and get pushed into higher rating brackets, and not be put into matches with lower ranks, assuming a decent matching system, and a population to support it.
 

Flight

Molten Core Raider
1,230
288
Zehn - Vhex said:
Especially when there"s no effective way to prevent it. Even if you remove /follow, there"s clonekey. And even if you somehow prevent that, there"s still synergy which is impossible to prevent players from using.
Presume you meanKeyclone, I"ve never heard of clonekey? Unless you mean Clonekeys, which is Mac software.

Synergy, Keyclone, Octopus, Hotkeynet and the other similar packages only broadcast keyboard strokes to multiple PCs or clients. Using them doesn"t negate relying on /target, /follow and /assist for 95% of the game.
 

Ukerric_foh

shitlord
0
0
Flight said:
i) multiple accounts and boxing make up a large part of the customer base; I would be surprised if its less than 40%.
(splutter).

Sorry. You ruined my mug of coffee.

I would be surprised if the multiboxer customer base was expressed in any double digit %. 40%? In what kind of twisted perverted parallel universe do you live in? Don"t tell me: Sam Da Man is a world celebrity there and goes on to explain his newest rig on Oprah once a year at least, right?

I don"t know any multiboxer in WoW. None. There is one person who had a second account, and two who use multiple accounts because they are babysitting their spouse"s account - which hardly qualitifies.

Sure, there are games where multiboxing runs rampant. Because the game explicitely requires it. EvE? EQ? Yeah, those are games where you multibox-multiaccount a lot, because the game structure gives you a major advantage in practical terms to do so. But other games? Except for the chinese farming crowd, that is...
 

Gnome Eater_foh

shitlord
0
0
For EverQuest, 40% of multiboxers sounds high but not unreasonable.

Back when I played almost every single person in a high end guild had a cleric bot.
 

Flight

Molten Core Raider
1,230
288
Ukerric said:
Don"t tell me: Sam Da Man is a world celebrity there and goes on to explain his newest rig on Oprah once a year at least, right?
This exemplifies just how anti-boxing this forum and community has always been; the worst possible place to have a discussion about it. Its not many months since people who box were catalogued with lepers and rapists on here.

However, it is a significant issue, with a significant potential customer base and future game designers need to prepare their games for it - one way or another, if they want to optimize the game experience and customer attraction/service.


Zehn - Vhex said:
Again, you"re inventing a problem that doesn"t exist.
Not sure what you mean by this mate ?

All I"ve said is that people with multiple accounts present potentially significant revenue streams and that past games have not considered their needs or their impact on the players around them. Obviously that will be different in different MMOs.