Green Monster Games - Curt Schilling

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Vilgan_foh

shitlord
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Utnayan said:
I didn"t say in the industry. I said this:



Read before commenting.
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Who gives a fuck? Being "around the industry" doesn"t mean shit. All I know is half the threads I try to read are spammed with shit because you can"t make your point and then shut the fuck up. Good for you. You think the game will be another Vanguard. I have no way to tell and don"t really care at this point. All I want is to be able to go read shit in a thread without having to wade through fucking pointless Utnayan posts. I think I"ve read about 50 times now that you think SOE hired some chick because she slept her way into the job. Whoopty fucking do. Fuck, if she"d put FOHSS on her tits this entire board would have supported hiring her. Now you are posting random shit in this thread when you (like everyone else) know jack all about the game.

Learn to limit yourself... make a point and then STOP POSTING ABOUT IT. Its really not that hard, I promise.
 
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Laerazi_sl

shitlord
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And there ya have it folks. You won"t hear ANYTHING on even the lore, between now and possibly as far out as July 2010.
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And? As long as they release substantial information/media before the game releases, and give players a chance to preview the game, why does it matter if it"s 2 years or 6 months before release.

If you"re bored of discussing generic MMO design philosophies then exit the thread until more information is available; sounds like you"re just impatient and fishing for info.
 
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Greyform_foh

shitlord
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Utnayan said:
And there ya have it folks. You won"t hear ANYTHING on even the lore, between now and possibly as far out as July 2010.

CEO Gone = Publisher Ditched. Check.

Nothing to show + ungodly spin = Vanguard grassroots publicity. Check.

Not having anything possibly to show for 4 years since launch of the company?

Fucking priceless.

George Broussard, is that you?

Edit by the way: EQ1 1.5 years. DAOC 2 years. WoW 2.5 years. AO 1.5 years. New Star Wars 2.5 years. SWG: 2 years (And that was with redevelopment 16 months before launch)

The only game that took more than 3 years was Vanguard. And we all saw why didn"t we.

Enter Copurnicus Nukem Forever (Tm) 3-4 years.
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Ut,

What"s your goal here?

You don"t want to play this game you think it"s going to be shit?
You"re trying to get Curt to post information about his game before he wants to?
What is it that keeps you coming in here and talking shit about a game you don"t know a damn thing about other than you don"t know a damn thing about the game?

So his CEO left, it may or may not be a big deal. It"s certainly nothing to go on a psychotic fit over.

He hired someone within the company.. So what. It"s his company if he thinks she is the best person for the job, or the best person for the job within his budget, it"s his company his decision. Again so what.

You"ve been "around the industry for years"? Are you fucking kidding? You do know where the hell you"re posting right? that describes damn near every other member of this forum.

I don"t give a shit about Curt Schilling the baseball player, hell Bert Blyleven should go in the hall before this dude. I think Steve Danuser is an idiot. negged ole Curt here just for hiring him.

But I still want to see what these dudes come up with as a game, If it sucks. You know what I"m out? Nothing. Same as you same as every other person who sits back and waits to see what Copernicus becomes.

Your rants on Curt posting here is almost hypocritical in the way most people (and I take liberties saying most) here would rather see Curt posting here than you. Yet you"re allowed to post. Even though you don"t say a damn thing new (Just like Curt).

If you have an actual point to make sure make it. but ranting because you don"t know anything about the game is just bullshit.

The distinction you are not making between your comparison between Copernicus and Vanguard is this. Curt Schilling put in his own cash to make this game. He was already rich. Brad blew mostly Microsoft"s money and every one else"s. Some may have been his. But not near on the scale as what Schilling has on the line here.

So tone down the noise Ole Crusader of the MMO world. You"re coming off as a whinny bitch.
 
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Ngruk_foh

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Here"s something to chew on.

Before anything, assumptions, opinions, anything, I am, and have been for longer than probably 90% of you, a gamer.

I started in 1981 on an Apple, and have been gaming every since. Yes that was back in the tape recorder hard drive days.

Now let me follow that with this.

That makes me no more or less qualified than any other gamer here, on most things.

Baseball? Ya, it"s likely I know far more about throwing one, hard, than anyone here. I also know how to monetize that God Given ability too.

That means jack here, and rightfully so.

But when it comes to gaming I DO think I know things about things, some more than others. I have enough belief in that to put double digit millions where my mouth is.

Unlike many here, I had the God given talent to create enough earnings in my lifetime to take that "Man if I made this game I"d have done this" and make it a reality.

We start separating our perspectives on many things at that point. I now have a very different take on those things I and we, use message boards to bitch about.

I do so of my own free will, certainly against the wishes of Danuser, Shwayder and Kirchoff!

I have always felt comfortable in forums like this, going back to my days playing. The main reason is I was a fan of the game long before I played it, and in many ways this is no different. Regardless of the hat I wear here I am, and always have been, a gamer.

I certainly didn"t think it through a year or two ago, coming here I mean. I felt like it was a smart thing to do really. Hang out in forums like this, talk to hard core MMO players, because I am one, and possibly grab a nugget or two along the way that might help what we are doing.

That"s not going to change. Yes I agree it"s frustrating, it"s even more frustrating for me because as anyone here will tell you I would love to open up and chat. The issue is I pay people that understand these things from an angle I don"t, and that there"s prudent and smart ways to do things in this venue that AREN"T things I would choose to do.

If I don"t listen to them, why pay them? Ya, it"s totally my call, but who on earth wants to work at a company where the "Boss" makes the call for no other reason than he"s the boss? I don"t, and I am not and won"t be that guy. Yes I have my own mind, and yes I am comfortable doing things others don"t want to at times, but in the end the goal is to create the most kick ass company on the planet, that makes incredibly kick ass products that we all would die to play.

So I get the frustration, not much is known, but I think I"ve been pretty open in the past and I have not lied about things like timing, and I won"t start now. It won"t be before the years out, but sometime next year we"ll likely open the kimono enough to let you all, and everyone else interested, see where we are, and where we are headed.
 
Zehnpai

Zehnpai

Molten Core Raider
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Yeah, I want to be violently told to fuck off back to WoW by people who have no interest in the health of your game as it pertains to the real world market because they believe their deomgraphic alone has the buying power to keep your company afloat.

Oh god bless fanboys.
 
James

James

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Would buy game if you had a beta CM that cracked down on stupidity with extreme prejudice.

"What, motherfucker? You want a 20% exp death penalty? How about a month long ban to think about how retarded you are instead. Get the fuck out, scrub."

I"d bet you could persuade Tseric to come mod for you, too.
 
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Rayne_foh

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Greyform said:
When are you going to start up a forum on your website?
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If it were me, I never would. Doing so limits exposure to a very segmented crowd of gamers. Utilising boards like this allow you to glean a lot more information about what interests the average gamer, because the atmosphere is far more relaxed than some official forum would ever be.

The ability to speak your mind is very dominant here, because you can tell an opposing opinion to piss off if you disagree. On an official board, you"d be drummed out by fanboys fishing for little more than a beta invite.
 
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yknits_foh

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Rayne said:
If it were me, I never would. Doing so limits exposure to a very segmented crowd of gamers. Utilising boards like this allow you to glean a lot more information about what interests the average gamer, because the atmosphere is far more relaxed than some official forum would ever be.

The ability to speak your mind is very dominant here, because you can tell an opposing opinion to piss off if you disagree. On an official board, you"d be drummed out by fanboys fishing for little more than a beta invite.
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I totally agree and applaud any developer who is willing to subject themselves to boards like FOH.

Whether they spew bullshit or give insightful info, you can expect a barrage of call-outs.

None of us are ever going to agree on all aspects of "fun" but watching us argue is a good way to spur ideas; good or bad as they may be.

Until his game flops, I"ll give him every bit of rope to hang himself and feel no remorse if he falls flat. If he succeeds, I"ll probably be playing.
 
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Greyform_foh

shitlord
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Rayne said:
If it were me, I never would. Doing so limits exposure to a very segmented crowd of gamers. Utilising boards like this allow you to glean a lot more information about what interests the average gamer, because the atmosphere is far more relaxed than some official forum would ever be.

The ability to speak your mind is very dominant here, because you can tell an opposing opinion to piss off if you disagree. On an official board, you"d be drummed out by fanboys fishing for little more than a beta invite.
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Why can"t you post here and on a game specific forum?

Although I agree on this forum you have a certain noise level tuned out. You also have other noise amped up (see any Ut post), on an official forum you could go into more specific discussions (if there is ever any information to actually discuss).

Zehn - Fuck off back to WoW. I am sure Curt is making a game for the over 40 crowd who only play an hour or two a week after the kids have gone to bed.
 
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Rayne_foh

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Greyform said:
Why can"t you post here and on a game specific forum?
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Its not impossible by any means. But I think you get more of a feel from what you could consider the "true" average gamer on boards like this. Segmented boards tend to attract those mainly focused on what you"re currently working on, rather than free-form ideas that are based solely on past gaming experiences.
 
Zehnpai

Zehnpai

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Blizzard tried that. It didn"t work out so well. It obviously depends on the success of your games but Tigole especially and a handful of other devs used to post here and on other fansites as well (EJ, etc..)

Then Tigole leaked that there were changes in the pipe for some raid zones here before he posted anywhere else and there was a shitstorm about how fan sites were being favored over the DEDICATED FANS OF THE OFFICIAL FORUMS!!!!!!

That pretty much ended that.

You could go the opposite route though. Anybody remember when EQ devs got sick of looking like dumbasses when we kept pointing out bugs in the game that they swore weren"t there and nuked flameplay? Then they spent the next two years with their fingers in there ears going "lalalalaworkingasintendedlalala." Despite steel warrior pointing out how striekthrough was basically useless and all the parses and shit going on all over and etc....etc....etc....

Yeah, that worked out well for them.
 
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gnomad_foh

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Rayne said:
Utilising boards like this allow you to glean a lot more information about what interests the average gamer, because the atmosphere is far more relaxed than some official forum would ever be.
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Man if you think this board has the "average" gamer you are so out of touch with reality.

I work with many "average" gamers and I can say that not a one of them even knows about this board. Hell most of them don"t even use the boards for the games they play.

The "big sites" tend to be more average and moron laden and I have yet to see very many devs ever posting on them.

I am patiently waiting to see if my predictions and comments made way back when in this thread come true.

I have been around this industry (computers and software) since I was first published in 1971, and have seen way too many snake oil salesmen come and go both in the game world and commercial world.

BTW UT you forgot the worst game released in the last 5 years when you mentioned games with long development times and shit products. Darkfail was over a decade in development, had an NDA up to the day of the delayed release and even they showed us more then 38 Studios has shown us so far.
 
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Rayne_foh

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gnomad said:
Man if you think this board has the "average" gamer you are so out of touch with reality.
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Well, it depends on how you define "average". I"m not sure what your definition is exactly, but mine tends to lean more toward the "diversely opinionated". And in that respect, theres no better place to garner the real information you"re looking for than boards like this.

What could I possibly gain from frequenting official sites? Fanboys telling me to piss off, or my personal favorite, "L2P n00b"? Here, and other places not unlike this, I can sincerely say to those assholes, "go fuck yourself, and now i"m gonna tell you why", without the bother of a 30 to 60 day ban or somesuch nonsense because some egotistical moderator doesn"t think my opinion is appropriate for thier forums. Or worse, because what I say may be the truth. For someone so intimately close to the industry for 35+ years, i"d think this would be quite obvious.

Only in places like this can people like Utnayan say whats on thier mind. He may come off completely sideways in his approach at times (or even most of the time), but i"d bet the farm that even though the people who matter may not like his approach, they ARE focusing on some lucid points he tends to make in between.
 
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Bongk_foh

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I have eaten food my whole life, I guess that means I am a restaurantuer, eh?

The #1 way people lose their lottery winnings is by opening restaurants, everyone thinks they can do it since they eat food every day.
 
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Lost Ranger_sl

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Utnayan said:
And trust me, I have had my fair shake at chances to get in with a shit ton of companies. I stay in Minnesota because my family is here. If they had a development house here, I would put my money where my mouth is. But don"t think for a second that the best damn developers have never come from exactly this type of site. Because the shit bags that kiss ass or fuck their way in go no where. The people that love, eat, and breath video games and are that passionate about them - the sky is the limit.
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Heh, you must be joking.

Roger Ebert has spent his entire career around the film industry. He spends most of his time telling the public how terrible or good films are. You would think that someone who spends most of his time being critical of the works of others could put his money where his mouth is right? Well he did... and failed horribly. Ebert was FAR more qualified to create something in the industry he is passionate about then you are. In the end the ultimate film critic can"t make a film. Ironic isn"t it.

Basically until you DO put your money where your mouth is and produce something of worth, cut the shit. It is so tiresome reading your (and others) bullshit when it comes to game design. You people who think you can design video games just because you play them are pathetic. You have NO credentials. I played pong too asshole. It doesn"t make you or me a unique and special snow flake. I guess I should go work for Blizzard though right? After all I have been around the industry since the beginning!
 
Zehnpai

Zehnpai

Molten Core Raider
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Rayne said:
Well, it depends on how you define "average".
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A lot of posters here while they may not be your average customer are in life situations that make them the average customer. You see it a lot in EQ nostalgia posts mixed in with some retarded point they"re making. How many times have we seen the "I"d like to see a game like EQ again with forced grouping, useless classes, terrible itemization and forced poopsocking fatasserybut I don"t have that kind of time to play anymore now that I have a wife and kids" post?

A lot of us have mass exposure/experience working with the general customer as well. Either working at gamestop or the electronics department at Wal-Mart or what the fuck ever. Or people like me who do house-call PC repairs. I usually fix what"s wrong in like 10 minutes but they paid for an hour so I stick around and optimize shit on their PC and have time to kill so I spend a lot of time listening to some 30 something dad talk about his level 80 rogue in WoW who"s all excited about Colleseum being so much easier then Ulduar because now his 2000 dps ass can at least get gear.

I used to run Open Raids in EQ as well. You have no fucking idea how grateful people were who had 70 hour work weeks and kids that got to see content they never would have otherwise because they couldn"t join a power guild. We had 700 unique players attend our raids over a 6 month period. -700- different people who otherwise would have never seen a PoP god if it hadn"t been for us. That"s fucking insane.

So please don"t fucking tell me I don"t have insight into what casual Joe is thinking.
 
Utnayan

Utnayan

F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
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16,525
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My point regarding the possibility of moving into the industry was just that. I have a portfolio, I have mods made, I have levels made, I have scripts of encounters, and all that bru-haha. I can do it, and they knew I could do it. The only thing that was missing was a timeline but I do not fuck around with work ethic, so that would not have been a problem.

I was playing an old console which only played Pong back in 1977 when I was 3. Writing text adventures in Basic on an Apple IIE saved on a floppy when I was 9 and learned the commands 10 Print "Blah", 20 Input A$, 30 Print "Hello..." A$ and all those variables and trees to make a text adventure story about who knows what it was about now. Which progressed into modding, scripting, level design, story design, anything and everything save animation and art which I always sucked ass at.

The point of the post was to say that I was around video games. I dabbled in them, I fucked around, and I could have just up and left my roots and I would be a designer as we speak - but I didn"t. It doesn"t mean I am creating a 300 million dollar budget fucking movie. Give Ebert some credit their pal, creating a quest line revolving around 4 kids and a fucking haunted pumpkin will be a little easier than heading up an entire movie studio by sitting on the sidelines and studying.

Which is exactly my point in all this. Schilling comes in and spews a bunch of shit that isn"t even close to true anyway (Come on... Years in Development to Press releases and info? Could you even be more wrong?) and tries to deflect what he knows he doesn"t have. You may be diving into the ring and calling it putting the money where your mouth is, I"d say you might as well burn the shit in a bon fire at Fenway so we can roast some dogs. There is a big difference between knowing what you are doing and putting that money in, than what you are doing - which is throwing money around aimlessly, while running out of investors, running out of time, running out of spin, but worse than all of that; trying to facade your way through this thread like you have a hand to show when the river is dry, the chips are gone, the keg is tapped, and your business fortune teller who told you in 2006 your name would sell the game took the high road back to a radio airwave to compete with Gary Spyvy.

If you want to come in here and be a gamer, than fucking do it. Make a handle and come talk about games where no one knows who you are. I know 4 people who post in this forum who are more famous than Christ. They aren"t going to, for one second let anyone know about it, because they want their opinions being taken for what they are (Which is hilarious because 3 have negative internets) while if they didn"t, I am sure the bandwagon fanfucks would stride right in and agree with everything they fucking say. To which every single one of you morons would all cling to their tit with anyone that didn"t saying, "OH GOD BAN THAT PERSON THEY WILL SCARE AWAY THE MORE FAMOUS THAN CHRIST POSTER I DON"T CARE IF THEY ARE FULL OF SHIT THEY ARE POSTING HERE OH MY GOD HELLO FAMOUS GUY!!!"

Gnomad says it best with regards to this shit.

I have been around this industry (computers and software) since I was first published in 1971, and have seen way too many snake oil salesmen come and go both in the game world and commercial world.
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What"s worse is a snake oil salesmen parading around as a normal gamer for the pure sake of promotion but then cannot take the heat when the truth comes out.
 
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Mr Element_foh

shitlord
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If we could harness Ut"s rage and use it for energy, I think we"d have ourselves a perpetual motion device.




But, back on topic. Curt, how long do you think an average encounter/fight should last? I"m not asking directly how long the fights in Copernicus will be, but just wondering if your philosophy is more leaning towards longer EQ-style fights or shorter WoW-length fights.
 
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