Guild Wars 2

Miele · Aug 31, 2015

I think Wildstar had several healing spell that were directional, if not the vast majority. For many abilities selecting a target wasn't necessary at all even offensively, yet there were tanks and healers. Game failed in other aspects, but that part I kinda liked (disclaimer: I didn't play it for years, so it's an opinion based on a limited experience).

Despite the sayings that a tank carries the group (or the healer), I vastly prefer the trinity, at least conceptually, to a role-less system.

bixxby · Aug 31, 2015

Eidal_sl said:
I agree with you guys, generally. I think I'm reluctant to encourage any model that is decidedly non-WoW to move closer to WoW. I already have two AAA games (WoW/FFXIV) and a bunch of others that offer me "conventional" dungeon smashing. I'd rather see a game try to do something else even if it ultimately turns out to be un-fun. At least some sort of R&D is being conducted.

If the truth is that we can't have entertaining dungeons without a tank and a healer carrying a few button-mashing DPS through a 10-20 minute straight corridor, then so be it.

Sure you can, just not in a standard MMO. Destiny does it and it's fun, but it's a shooter.

Zaphid · Aug 31, 2015

Eidal_sl said:
I agree with you guys, generally. I think I'm reluctant to encourage any model that is decidedly non-WoW to move closer to WoW. I already have two AAA games (WoW/FFXIV) and a bunch of others that offer me "conventional" dungeon smashing. I'd rather see a game try to do something else even if it ultimately turns out to be un-fun. At least some sort of R&D is being conducted.

If the truth is that we can't have entertaining dungeons without a tank and a healer carrying a few button-mashing DPS through a 10-20 minute straight corridor, then so be it.

You definitely can, but then your design cannot encourage dps above anything else. They kind of shot themselves in a foot with the dodge, since it gives like 1s immunity to 99,9% of spells in the game and you can do that twice, so any other defensive skills a player brings are inferior. If encounters encouraged outlasting and mobility instead of dps, you would see a different approach.

The other problem is that players are encouraged to run the dungeons until their eyes bleed to get the whole set or god forbid a gift for crafting, so you will naturally gravitate towards the most efficient way to do that and boss from individual bosses are irrelevant or laughably rare so finishing a path is all that matters. Like, there are some hidden bosses and nooks and crannies that I'm fairly sure almost nobody ever visits (Ooze under the engineer prison in Cof P1), because why would they ?

kaid · Aug 31, 2015

Miele_sl said:
I think Wildstar had several healing spell that were directional, if not the vast majority. For many abilities selecting a target wasn't necessary at all even offensively, yet there were tanks and healers. Game failed in other aspects, but that part I kinda liked (disclaimer: I didn't play it for years, so it's an opinion based on a limited experience).

Despite the sayings that a tank carries the group (or the healer), I vastly prefer the trinity, at least conceptually, to a role-less system.

Yup all the major heals were aoes usually cones or somtimes circles around you. It worked pretty well for a fast active healing style in combat without having to target anybody specifically. There were some heals that would just automatically effect party members as well but the bulk of your heals were all template aimed skill shots.

Nija · Aug 31, 2015

I feel like it doesn't matter what guilds wars 2 does, it won't be sticky because I'll have all of the new attacks within 15 minutes of firing it up.

The idea that you have a skill set for each weapon (per class of course) and that you can get every possible move so fast makes it very boring long term.

Maybe it would help if the special skills weren't on such long cooldowns. It's just very meh.

Barab · Aug 31, 2015

Really looking forward to giving the new elite specs a ride. Especially the new dare devil staff line.

bytes · Aug 31, 2015

GW2 just has its own trinity. You don't wait for your tank but you wait for your phalanx warrior and two good elementalists or else it becomes a fucking drag. Anet obviously is blind to this because they're busy balancing for the least popular game mode, sPvP. The raid announcement gave me a good chuckle, they seriously seem to believe raids will be run in 'diverse' group setups.

Cantatus · Aug 31, 2015

Caliane_sl said:
99% of the time, "more dps" is the key as noted. aoe stealth, sometimes.

The thing that always frustrated me is I could create a support build for my class, but it was almost always more helpful for my group if I went full DPS instead. Arenanet worked so hard to ensure you don't have to rely on certain roles to complete group content that it erased the need for those roles to exist at all. Sure, I could play support if I wanted, but I generally felt like I was doing more harm than good by doing so. Much better to burn down mobs as fast as possible than to have someone focusing on healing and buffs and doing no damage.

Faltigoth · Aug 31, 2015

I just logged back into this for the first time in two years. There is nothing quite like logging in to an MMO after a long time, peeking into your bank and bags, and realizing that you have no goddamn idea what anything is or does, and it is even more fun when the build you painstakingly put together two years ago is totally reset and all over the place.

Needless to say, I promptly started a new character to relearn what in the hell was going on. Lowbie zones still surprisingly full, though I guess it went F2P a few days ago so that explains that.

Sinzar · Aug 31, 2015

The lack of trinity was what killed it for me as well. Since everyone is in theory self sufficient, the way gw2 adds challenge is to just make everything during dungeon bosses 1 or 2 shot players. I even rerolled from thief to guardian, got to max level and fully geared him in all the "tank" gear. That basically did nothing. It's a game of dodge everything all the time or get killed and ressed over and over, which is about how most pug dungeon bosses went until I threw up my hands and quit in disgust.

There's a reason almost every mmo since ever has the trinity. It works.

RobXIII · Sep 1, 2015

Sinzar_sl said:
The lack of trinity was what killed it for me as well. Since everyone is in theory self sufficient, the way gw2 adds challenge is to just make everything during dungeon bosses 1 or 2 shot players. I even rerolled from thief to guardian, got to max level and fully geared him in all the "tank" gear. That basically did nothing. It's a game of dodge everything all the time or get killed and ressed over and over, which is about how most pug dungeon bosses went until I threw up my hands and quit in disgust.

There's a reason almost every mmo since ever has the trinity. It works.

Git gud! I kid I kid

Same here, though it just kept me from even zoning into any dungeons after one try. I stuck to world PvP but got bored. It's a gorgeous game, I'm not sure why I get bored with it instantly. I can't put my finger on it.

Treesong · Sep 1, 2015

Nija_sl said:
I feel like it doesn't matter what guilds wars 2 does, it won't be sticky because I'll have all of the new attacks within 15 minutes of firing it up.

The idea that you have a skill set for each weapon (per class of course) and that you can get every possible move so fast makes it very boring long term.

Maybe it would help if the special skills weren't on such long cooldowns. It's just very meh.

Yes, the "unlocking" of new attacks per weapon does not make sense at all in its current iteration. They even made it faster at some point then in the beginning, so now it's just an odd feature that does absolutely nothing towards the feeling of progress or becoming more powerful: which should be one the pillars of any rpg.

I guess they simply want to have a very low hurdle for new players. It is a very easy game to get into when you are a total newbie.

Rafterman · Sep 1, 2015

Sinzar_sl said:
The lack of trinity was what killed it for me as well. Since everyone is in theory self sufficient, the way gw2 adds challenge is to just make everything during dungeon bosses 1 or 2 shot players. I even rerolled from thief to guardian, got to max level and fully geared him in all the "tank" gear. That basically did nothing. It's a game of dodge everything all the time or get killed and ressed over and over, which is about how most pug dungeon bosses went until I threw up my hands and quit in disgust.

There's a reason almost every mmo since ever has the trinity. It works.

I couldn't agree more. Even when you kill a boss it feels like shit because it's nothing but a constant rotation of dps, die, rez, repeat. I never once felt good afterwards. It's basically a game where failing is the point, and so long as everyone doesn't fail at the same time you're good to go. And the guardian thing is so true. I actually thought a tank with a shield would make a difference but all it really did was slow down the group. The fact that people who play the game constantly bemoan the trinity while embracing the singularity of dps only is strange to me. Sure, it means you are dependent on roles that people play less, but as well as killing off tanks and healers they killed off support classes. Pretty much any spec that doesn't do as much damage as possible is a determent to your group. I still play occasionally, but only to run around the over world and doing the 1-80 thing. Pretty much everything else about the game is inferior to other MMOs on the market and I shudder to think what a 10 man raid of ping pong rez festing is going to look like.

Ukerric · Sep 1, 2015

Faltigoth_sl said:
Lowbie zones still surprisingly full, though I guess it went F2P a few days ago so that explains that.

Actually, it's the "megaserver" setup they switched to a year or so ago. Instead of one instance of lowbie zone per server, it's one instance per X players. So there's always someone, except when you're on an instance that was spawned because a world boss was going to pop up, and the players just left after downing it.

Hekotat · Sep 1, 2015

Yeah, it'll even ask you if you want to move to a more populated server if the population drops below a certain point.

Ukerric · Sep 1, 2015

Hekotat_sl said:
Yeah, it'll even ask you if you want to move to a more populated server if the population drops below a certain point.

My recommendation at that point is "finish harvesting whatever's in range, then accept". You get a run speed buff for 1h (30mn? I think it's 1h) when you accept.

Bondurant · Sep 1, 2015

ArenaNet is taking over the publishing of Guild Wars 2 : Guildwars2

Hekotat · Sep 2, 2015

That's actually a pretty huge deal, I wonder if this means we will get Cantha now?

Zaphid · Sep 2, 2015

Sadly I don't think we will get another whole continent like Tyria anytime soon. I'd love to see what happened to the whole city after what they did with all the cities already in the game, but they seem to have problems with the scale of the game and the world they effectively have to recreate.

Ukerric · Sep 3, 2015

Zaphid_sl said:
Sadly I don't think we will get another whole continent like Tyria anytime soon. I'd love to see what happened to the whole city after what they did with all the cities already in the game, but they seem to have problems with the scale of the game and the world they effectively have to recreate.

The "let's add zones over time" model of the last season (with the free/gem unlock model) is probably a better fit than the whole "let's have an expansion". However, a push toward the Crystal Desert/Kourna/Elona is part of a different storyline, and they will almost certainly finish with the Dragons first before tackling their Lich King.

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