Guild Wars 2

Nirgon said:

DAoC was hype and thriving with the ongoing realm war to jump into as almost any class, be welcomed and have fun.

Then the "8 man only and never touch anyone else fighting" try hards poisoned it.

Click to expand...

This is a horrifically bad take, but I understand where it comes from. Mythic just didn't understand what was good/bad about their own game, I know, being one of the few top-tier PvPers on their internal development boards/paid QA testers. Their developers would constantly try to find ways to stop dedicated 8-man gank groups from dominating when they couldn't fix the underlying fact that 90% of players in the frontier were retarded, farmable cows. And they kept putting more and more abilities in the game that the shitty players were supposed to be able to use to counteract the good players, when the exact opposite always happened. Give the good players more tools and they will shit all over the bad players. They'd constantly put in super powerful abilities that encourage zerging while skipping over the fact that zergs don't use their abilities in any coordinated matter and 8-man squads do. By the time I quit just before WoW came out, which was just before Catacombs, my guild could bring 8-9 players (solo bonedancer floating along behind us, because lol) and kill literally wipe entire realm's main force, 200+ players, even under unfavorable conditions, not needing them to be stacked up for CC/AOE cheese.

Mythic could have put in special zones/subzones/PvP dungeons specifically designed around letting the top tier 8 player squads from each realm fight each other while still contributing to the objectives of the overall realm war, made those players very happy, while simultaneously nudging the sharks out of the retarded kiddie pool that was the normal RvR frontiers. They didn't really understand that if you've got players of vastly differing skill and power level that you need to create different types of gameplay for those different groups, and if you don't, the best players are going to spend all their time farming idiots to get even more powerful.

GW2 went the opposite direction in that they gave players tons of good PvP abilities but AOE capped the shit out of everything so there's no real tactics besides numbers, while still doing nothing to encourage small group combat in the RvR zones.

Nirgon said:

Top PvPer, got it

That had almost nothing to do with my point either

It's about blacklisting and discouraging people from just coming out and playing

Rather, u "had" to have an 8man and no forces larger than 8 "were allowed" basically

And no stealther was allowed to touch anything already engaged.... Cannot tell you the rage I got on Phoenix as a ranger for sniping at mile gates. I kept doing it anyways and was assured I was blacklisted from everything for life.... as a fully max temped ranger (lol o noes)

But I hear you on a lot of the rest about casual perspective, adding abils and their take on why they lose with things being given to them that actually make it worse for them

Click to expand...

Oh you're talking about some weird has-been free-shard player communities. It was not really like that on live servers; the community of RP cow casual PvPers was so large compared to the number of 8man gankers that they could not "blacklist" you from anything. Did 8-mans constantly complain about third parties ass-jamming their fights on live servers back in the day? Yes, but it was just complaints, they had no power to actually stop anyone from participating. Are rangers/bolt casters who snipe into fair fights kinda dicks? Yes, but all stealthers were dicks. Don't fight near milewalls if you don't want to get dicked with by stealthers was pretty much a rule.

The best/worst thing about DAoC was that you had 3 wholely distinct ecosystems of PvP in the frontiers. You had the casual zergs, the dedicated 8-ish man guilds, and you had stealthers. And they all played in the same pool. Was there drama when/where they overlapped? Yeah, but back in the height of the game the sheer numbers of people playing meant that drama was just forum drama, no one could really exclude you from anything.

The whole reason I didn't play free-shard DAoC servers was because they were constantly trying to recreate the "glory days" that never were.

Nirgon said:

The servers I saw with surviving populations embraced the realm war and didn't do all this "perfect comp 8 man only" and "no touching or blacklist" shit

That leads to casuals having zero to do, leaving and a dead box

Hell not even casuals, even try hards that didn't have a consistent 8

Click to expand...

Cool, you're agreeing with me.

Actual good 8v8ers in that game should be able to kill 40 ungrouped players (maybe 50 if 8-man was Midgard!) even if the players were try-hards, so anyone complaining about interference are fucking jokes.

I have strong opinions about that game, I poopsocked that game as hard as anyone here poopsocked that gay elf pve game.