Gun control

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khalid

khalid

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chaos_sl said:
maybe lowering the the victim count. Maybe raising it too, who knows.
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So you think someone interested in a shooting will be all "Aww shit, if it isn't a genuine AR-15, I'm just going to stay at home!"?


That is absurd. Common sense tells us that a criminal denied a tool to do something will try and find a substitute. Now if that substitute is less deadly, great! However, that IS NOT THE CASE here. The AR-15 (would be banned) is no deadlier than the Mini-14 (won't be banned under any AWB). After the clinton AWB happened, manufacturers built AWB-compliant carbines like the Hi-point 995 carbine that was used in Columbine. This isn't even counting the criminals who would just use a grandfathered AWB or pistols.


It is pretty much as close to fact as we can get in this debate that an AWB would have close to 0 effect (on crime). It would definitely effect my personal liberty and the personal liberty of many others.
 
chaos

chaos

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khalid_sl said:
So you think someone interested in a shooting will be all "Aww shit, if it isn't a genuine AR-15, I'm just going to stay at home!"?


That is absurd. Common sense tells us that a criminal denied a tool to do something will try and find a substitute. Now if that substitute is less deadly, great! However, that IS NOT THE CASE here. The AR-15 (would be banned) is no deadlier than the Mini-14 (won't be banned under any AWB). After the clinton AWB happened, manufacturers built AWB-compliant carbines like the Hi-point 995 carbine that was used in Columbine. This isn't even counting the criminals who would just use a grandfathered AWB or pistols.


It is pretty much as close to fact as we can get in this debate that an AWB would have close to 0 effect (on crime). It would definitely effect my personal liberty and the personal liberty of many others.
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I didn't say I think anyone will do anything, that is the point. I don't know what they will do. Do I think that every single person who would have used an "assault weapon" will go for handguns and try the same shit instead? No, that is illogical. Some? Sure, that is logical. But these are just guesses.

Common sense differs from person to person. The bottom line is that you don't know. You're guessing based on what you think would happen. Would the jackass in Aurora have been able to shoot 70 people if he hadn't had a rifle but instead had handguns? I don't know, neither do you. I could just say "Well no, obviously it would have been less!" but that is bullshit.
 
Tuco

Tuco

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chaos_sl said:
I didn't say I think anyone will do anything, that is the point. I don't know what they will do. Do I think that every single person who would have used an "assault weapon" will go for handguns and try the same shit instead? No, that is illogical. Some? Sure, that is logical. But these are just guesses.

Common sense differs from person to person. The bottom line is that you don't know. You're guessing based on what you think would happen. Would the jackass in Aurora have been able to shoot 70 people if he hadn't had a rifle but instead had handguns? I don't know, neither do you. I could just say "Well no, obviously it would have been less!" but that is bullshit.
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There's certainty and there's reason. And it's reasonable to say that in most shootings handguns would've been fine replacements for a rifle. Pulling this Floyd Ferris 'it's unknowable' bullshit is just that: bullshit.

As for your Aurora shooting example:
article_sl said:
Madman James Holmes was forced to switch weapons when his Smith & Wesson M&P 15, with a special 100-round drum magazine, failed after a few shots.
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http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/...Batman-carnage

Like I said before, I'm more afraid of a shooter with a few handguns under his coat than a shooter who is relying on being able to sneak from his car to the killzone with a 30" semi-automatic rifle.
 
chaos

chaos

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The guns themselves don't scare me, more the mentality of the person and the response. It takes a cold motherfucker to stare down a room of 6 year olds and start shooting, and it takes a truly incompetent government to take the momentum from that and fuck it up by focusing on false solutions.

It is reasonable to say that theymighthave switched up weapons. I don't know, there seems to be something symbolic about the assault rifle in these mass shootings that draws people to that kind of weapon. It is unknowable, bro. I don't think it is reasonable to declare that they would all switch up, or that the ban would have zero impact. We're all relatively normal people here except for fanaskin and evelys and freakshows like that, we can't relate to what these people are thinking or what they would do.
 
Tuco

Tuco

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Thinking that the assumed coolness of arming yourself with an automatic rifle enables one to kill children is wishful thinking.
 
chaos

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You said yourself they would be more effective with a couple of handguns and a fuckload of ammo. It seems like they go out of their way in most cases to use a specific type of weapon. That is why the government is focused on the AWB, they know they can appear to be doing something and it makes sense to lay people. Do you know why they do that? Because I sure the fuck don't. I don't think it enables them to do anything, but there has to besomethingthat is drawing people to that specific sort of weapon to commit that specific sort of crime.
 
Aychamo BanBan

Aychamo BanBan

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khalid_sl said:
So you think someone interested in a shooting will be all "Aww shit, if it isn't a genuine AR-15, I'm just going to stay at home!"?


That is absurd. Common sense tells us that a criminal denied a tool to do something will try and find a substitute. Now if that substitute is less deadly, great! However, that IS NOT THE CASE here. The AR-15 (would be banned) is no deadlier than the Mini-14 (won't be banned under any AWB). After the clinton AWB happened, manufacturers built AWB-compliant carbines like the Hi-point 995 carbine that was used in Columbine. This isn't even counting the criminals who would just use a grandfathered AWB or pistols.


It is pretty much as close to fact as we can get in this debate that an AWB would have close to 0 effect (on crime). It would definitely effect my personal liberty and the personal liberty of many others.
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fuck, those hi-point 995's were UGLY as SHIT!!!
 
Chanur

Chanur

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I think the reason the government is focused on assault weapons is the word assault . It makes them scary!
 
Big Phoenix

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Or the government is full of incompetent idiots who have no understanding of what they are trying to regulate or control.
 
B

Big Derg_sl

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chaos_sl said:
We do, actually. And not just drugs, the government controls all manner of shit from substances to trade to how fast you can drive. The civil liberties argument rings hollow to me. An assault weapons ban isn't tyranny.

I don't support a ban, I don't want it. But if you tell me "well it is only a 3% drop..." with a straight face, as if that isn't a significant impact when it comes to the murder rate, well bro I just don't know. It is significant, and to some people even the chance at a 3% drop is worth banning one specific type of gun.
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"Experience [has] shown that, even under the best forms [of government], those entrusted with power have, in time and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny." --Thomas Jefferson:
Diffusion of Knowledge Bill, 1779.
 
khalid

khalid

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Duppin_sl said:
What a convenient way to avoid having to provide any support whatsoever for your opinions.
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Did you read my post? I provided support for that opinion. Since you didn't read it, let me give you the cliffnotes.

1) The AWB would restrict certain firearms with cosmetic features (pistol grip stock, threaded barrel, etc).
2) Those cosmetic features have very little if any effect on lethality.
3) Equivalently deadly rifles aren't banned, giving people easy alternatives if they insist on using a rifle. The mini-14 for example.
4) ALL RIFLES, not just assault rifles, only account for 3% of gun homicides.

So please, feel free to refute these. Though my guess is you will not read it again and claim I am not providing any support again.
 
D

Duppin_sl

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I don't think you understand what the word "support" means in this context. Hint: it tends to require a chain of actual facts.
 
khalid

khalid

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Duppin_sl said:
I don't think you understand what the word "support" means in this context. Hint: it tends to require a chain of actual facts.
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I don't think you understand what "support" or "facts" mean, since all 4 of my points are facts and directly support my conclusion.

But please, carry on with your single sentence posts that add nothing to the discussion. Maybe you can post another link in a week when Mother Jones puts up another article.
 
D

Duppin_sl

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Here's a link for you:

36c3vs.jpg
 
Aychamo BanBan

Aychamo BanBan

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khalid_sl said:
I don't think you understand what "support" or "facts" mean, since all 4 of my points are facts and directly support my conclusion.

But please, carry on with your single sentence posts that add nothing to the discussion. Maybe you can post another link in a week when Mother Jones puts up another article.
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It's impossible to argue with extreme libtards like Duppin. That's why I don't even look at the politics thread. Thankfully the bulk of them stay in there.
 
chaos

chaos

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General Antony_sl said:
I feel bad for Chaos's little girls if he defends them as well as his points in this thread.
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Bro, I carry these fucking liberals around here like so many patients to my public option approved (thanks ACA!) doctor. My girls are good, my points are good, and damned if my liberal socialist agenda isn't good. Mama's not the law, I am the law.
 
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