Gun control

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Aychamo BanBan

Aychamo BanBan

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khalid_sl said:
How many times can we say that is flat out false before you listen or at least drop this silly argument?

1) It effects people because they might have to travel through NY.
2) It effects you if you might possibly move to NY. For example the current AWB means I won't be able to take a teaching position in NY.
3) It effects you if you have friends in NY. I can no longer bring my guns with me if I visit friends in NY.
4) The more state laws that pass something, puts pressure on the national level to do the same thing. These laws become the "norm" and states without it are seen as abnormal. Marijuana laws and other issues show this happening (in that case, for the good).

Again, NO ONE thinks that the NY law is going to have NY cops going into MO and taking guns. You keep throwing out that silly strawman.
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chaos

chaos

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khalid_sl said:
How many times can we say that is flat out false before you listen or at least drop this silly argument?

1) It effects people because they might have to travel through NY.
2) It effects you if you might possibly move to NY. For example the current AWB means I won't be able to take a teaching position in NY.
3) It effects you if you have friends in NY. I can no longer bring my guns with me if I visit friends in NY.
4) The more state laws that pass something, puts pressure on the national level to do the same thing. These laws become the "norm" and states without it are seen as abnormal. Marijuana laws and other issues show this happening (in that case, for the good).

Again, NO ONE thinks that the NY law is going to have NY cops going into MO and taking guns. You keep throwing out that silly strawman.
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I don't agree with your last point. In some case sure that is true, but in all cases I doubt that could be shown.

But these points are true of ALL laws, in ALL states. Anything from abortion to voter rights to whatever. The off chance that it may somehow impact you shouldn't preclude the state from governing itself. If NY wants this dumbass law, then let NY have its dumbass law.
 
Big Phoenix

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Go talk to Mayor Bloomberg about that last point. To him its everyone else fault when gun crime happens in NYC because they dont have NYC gun laws. Hell that is one of the typical arguments antis fall onto, gun control doesnt really work like it should because not everyone does it so everyone needs to get on board so it can work.
 
Aychamo BanBan

Aychamo BanBan

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chaos_sl said:
I don't agree with your last point. In some case sure that is true, but in all cases I doubt that could be shown.

But these points are true of ALL laws, in ALL states. Anything from abortion to voter rights to whatever. The off chance that it may somehow impact you shouldn't preclude the state from governing itself. If NY wants this dumbass law, then let NY have its dumbass law.
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That's your opinion, and you are well entitled to it. But what would you say to someone who says that you are not entitled to that opinion simply because you don't live in NY state?
 
Borzak

Borzak

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Big Phoenix_sl said:
Go talk to Mayor Bloomberg about that last point. To him its everyone else fault when gun crime happens in NYC because they dont have NYC gun laws. Hell that is one of the typical arguments antis fall onto, gun control doesnt really work like it should because not everyone does it so everyone needs to get on board so it can work.
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For years the DC argument has been all the guns come in illegally from Virginia and that is why DC has a crime problem involving firearms . Then why doesn't Virginia?
 
Tuco

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chaos_sl said:
I don't agree with your last point. In some case sure that is true, but in all cases I doubt that could be shown.

But these points are true of ALL laws, in ALL states. Anything from abortion to voter rights to whatever. The off chance that it may somehow impact you shouldn't preclude the state from governing itself. If NY wants this dumbass law, then let NY have its dumbass law.
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Who is saying that the state shouldn't govern itself?
 
S

Soysauceonrice_sl

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aychamo_aycono_sl said:
That's your opinion, and you are well entitled to it. But what would you say to someone who says that you are not entitled to that opinion simply because you don't live in NY state?
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Lets settle this, pumpkin. I never said that you can't have an opinion on whether or not the laws passed by NY or CO is stupid or not. I agree with you, I think those laws are pretty dumb.

Here's the thing, though. I get the impression that you aren't satisfied with simply stating your opinion that what happens in NY or CO or any other state is stupid. No, you want us to think that what happens in these states is just the beginning of a large trend that will affect others, maybe me, maybe you, maybe everyone. This is where I have an interest in calling you out on your bullshit. Now, some have said that I am putting words in your mouth, that I am stawmaning you. But hey, you're a big boy (presumably) and you should be able to defend yourself, right ? So it's pretty simple.

Just say: I Aychamo_Aycono do not think what happens in New York or Colorado will have any effect on me, and I do not feel that my right to bear arms, whether it be a handgun or an AW, is threatened by STATE laws in any other state.

If you tell me that you were never suggesting that your rights were being threatened by whatever happens in another state, then I will gladly apologize to you for strawmaning you. You clearly care about this enough to go and troll me in another thread, so let's settle this.
 
Zodiac

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So your saying state laws for such things as same sex marriage or legalizing marijuana are not as Tuco says "used as political precedent for other states and the federal government"?
 
chaos

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aychamo_aycono_sl said:
That's your opinion, and you are well entitled to it. But what would you say to someone who says that you are not entitled to that opinion simply because you don't live in NY state?
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I think everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion about a state's legislation. But it also kind of rubs me wrong when people outside of the state get involved in that state's internal legislation. Like the Utah mormon involvement in California's gay marriage debate. That's bullshit.
 
Aychamo BanBan

Aychamo BanBan

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Soysauceonrice_sl said:
Lets settle this, pumpkin. I never said that you can't have an opinion on whether or not the laws passed by NY or CO is stupid or not. I agree with you, I think those laws are pretty dumb.

Here's the thing, though. I get the impression that you aren't satisfied with simply stating your opinion that what happens in NY or CO or any other state is stupid. No, you want us to think that what happens in these states is just the beginning of a large trend that will affect others, maybe me, maybe you, maybe everyone. This is where I have an interest in calling you out on your bullshit. Now, some have said that I am putting words in your mouth, that I am stawmaning you. But hey, you're a big boy (presumably) and you should be able to defend yourself, right ? So it's pretty simple.

Just say: I Aychamo_Aycono do not think what happens in New York or Colorado will have any effect on me, and I do not feel that my right to bear arms, whether it be a handgun or an AW, is threatened by STATE laws in any other state.

If you tell me that you were never suggesting that your rights were being threatened by whatever happens in another state, then I will gladly apologize to you for strawmaning you. You clearly care about this enough to go and troll me in another thread, so let's settle this.
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Multiple people in this thread have already pointed out ways that what happens in other states can indeed directly and indirectly affect my rights. And I completely agree with Tuco's opinion on it. Face it buddy, you are completely wrong. You haven't made a single valid point in here. You lose. And you close because of your need for absolutes. You seem to want to believe that CO passing an AWB in no way will ever affect my rights because I am not a resident of that state, and you are absolutely wrong, for all the reasons that numerous people have written here.
 
Aychamo BanBan

Aychamo BanBan

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chaos_sl said:
I think everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion about a state's legislation. But it also kind of rubs me wrong when people outside of the state get involved in that state's internal legislation. Like the Utah mormon involvement in California's gay marriage debate. That's bullshit.
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And indeed you have the right to be upset about that. But there are certain individuals that would chastise you for being upset about that, unless you are a resident of either (both??) Utah or (and?? - haha) California. Because, according to them, why should you be mad or have an opinion if you yourself aren't gay and a resident of California? Because, according to them, unless you are a gay in California getting married, gay marriage in no way affects you directly, so you can't have an opinion on that.
 
Tuco

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I'd like to officially distance myself from the episode Aychamo is having toward Soy's insistence on where you live denying you the right to complain.
 
Aychamo BanBan

Aychamo BanBan

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Soysauceonrice_sl said:
But as far as i know you don't live in CO or NY. So answer my question: Why is it your business what happens in NY or CO ? Why does what happens in someone else's house any business of yours ? At the next election, the citizens who disprove of these laws will have a chance to vote out the gun nuts. But if by the next election cycle the same anti-gun nuts remain in power, would you accept that as an implicit approval of the voters for the gun restrictions ?
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I just wanted to get your quote on this page, so any new comers can see the idiocy of your "point." According to you, nobody should care about things that happen in states they don't live in. None of our business. Ok!
 
Aychamo BanBan

Aychamo BanBan

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Any way, back to those of us who care about things that happen in our country, there's some very interesting commentary and insight in this article:

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingne...in-but-limited

Along with the mention of a "gun tax" in Denver, to "pay for background checks."

"This bill is taking advantage of a tragedy that's out there to demonize law-abiding citizens who are exercising their Second Amendment rights, and using it as a way to generate $4 million to $5 million in increased taxes on these people," said Rep. Brian DelGrosso, R-Loveland
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Question: does any state currently ban face to face gun sales? Ie, I sell my shotgun to my buddy?

But House Minority Leader Mark Waller, R-Colorado Springs, said it was "absolutely inconsistent" for Democrats to have added an amendment to the bill in an attempt to keep Erie -based gun-magazine manufacturer Magpul from leaving the state.
The amendment says manufacturers could still make high-capacity magazines for out-of-state sale.
"Apparently, they (high-capacity magazines) are not instruments of destruction when they're purchased outside the borders of Colorado," Waller said.
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fanaskin

fanaskin

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http://news.yahoo.com/yorks-bloomber...213709486.html

Bloomberg's Independence USA political action committee, or PAC, has blanketed Chicago television with more than $2 million in ads attacking Halvorson's stance on guns and endorsing Robin Kelly, a candidate supporting gun control, according to PAC spokesman Stefan Friedman.

"Halvorson would have probably won this district if the gun control issue hadn't intervened," said Dick Simpson, a former Chicago city council member and political scientist at the University of Illinois, Chicago. "Whether she still can win it is unclear."

The district at stake is majority African-American and includes some areas ravaged by gun violence, as Chicago's murder rate reached the highest in five years.
 
Big Phoenix

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BUT SOY SAYS OTHER STATES ARENT GOING TO OTHER STATES IMPOSSIBLE>!!!!!!!!!!!@@@@@@@@@@@@@
 
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