Gun control

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Tuco_sl said:
Chaos you're correct in that you don't need specific knowledge to have a valid opinion on something. You're just treading into dangerous waters when you espouse uninformed opinions. (Note that I'm not talking about you specifically since you're obviously informing yourself before you post). The reason gun enthusiasts are so sensitive to that is because the pro-gun control movement is generally uninformed and the strongest force against gun ownership. So if someone enters a gun control discussion and mistakes clip/magazine they've inadvertently grouped themselves with the uninformed gun control movement.

The last page is a good example of why this should be abhorred. The media and politicians are so focused on how to define and whether to remove assault weapons that their focus has determined the gun control discussion. The reality is that's just a red herring. A pistol is such an efficient killing tool that if you were to snap your fingers and remove all semi-automatic rifles from the hands of non-military/law enforcement you'd accomplish nearly nothing in improving our safety from firearms.

weapons23.png
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To expand further on the statistics Tuco provided:
(source is:http://www.nij.gov/topics/crime/gun-...ce/welcome.htm)

FromtheArticle_sl said:
Gun-Related Homicide and Gangs

Source: Bureau of Justice Statistics
Data table [opens in pop-up window] | Text description [opens in pop-up window]
Gun-related homicide is most prevalent among gangs and during the commission of felony crimes. In 1976, the percentage of homicides caused by firearms during arguments was about the same as from gang involvement (about 70 percent), but by 1993, nearly all gang-related homicides involved guns (97 percent), whereas the percentage of gun homicides related to arguments remained relatively constant. The percentage of gang-related homicides caused by guns fell slightly to 94 percent in 2004, but the percentage of homicides caused by firearms during the commission of a felony rose from about 60 percent to 77 percent from 1976 to 2005.
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circumgun.png


I would also like to add this from the same website:

According to the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) in 2008, 303,880 victims of violent crimes stated that they faced an offender with a firearm.

Incidents involving a firearm represented 7% of the 5.1 million violent crimes of rape and sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated and simple assault in 2008.

The FBI's Crime in the United States estimated that 68% of the 16,929 murders in 2007 were committed with firearms.


Offenders

According to the 1997 Survey of State Prison Inmates, among those possessing a gun, the source of the gun was from -

a flea market or gun show for fewer than 2%
a retail store or pawnshop for about 12%
family, friends, a street buy, or an illegal source for 80%

During the offense that brought them to prison, 15% of State inmates and 13% of Federal inmates carried a handgun, andabout 2%, a military-style semiautomatic gun.
On average, State inmates possessing a firearm received sentences of 18 years, while those without a weapon had an average sentence of 12 years.
Among prisoners carrying a firearm during their crime, 40% of State inmates and 56% of Federal inmates received a sentence enhancement because of the firearm.
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Haast

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chaos_sl said:
When you look at it from that perspective, there is no law that you can pass that will ensure that mentally ill people never kill anyone. People who support gun control see it as a larger argument than that, though. I would question the mental illness part of that, too. Sure we all assume that the dickhead at Sandy Hook was crazy, because "normal" people would never do that. But we don't really know that.
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Don't confuse mentally ill with legally insane. Most if not all mass shooters were mentally ill, but most also weren't legally insane. The cliff notes version of the difference is that a legally insane person has no understanding of what they did or why it was wrong. For instance, if a paranoid schizophrenic had an episode and thought a passerby was a giant insect disguised as a human that was going to eat his brain and attacked him, that would be legal insanity. Mass shooters often spend months stockpiling ammunition & weapons, and finding ways to prevent victims from escaping like barring certain exits. They know exactly what they are doing. This makes them a psychopath, but not legally insane.

You can try to to keep weapons out of the hands of the mentally ill, but putting controls on particular guns or ammo isn't going to fix the issue.
 
Haast

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Big Phoenix_sl said:
Laughner(sp?)? Crazy, justice will never be served to him.
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Read up, bro.

Wikipedia: "He was sentenced to serve seven consecutive life terms plus 140 years in prison without parole."

He was also fined millions and millions of dollars so if someone ever wrote a book about him, he would go $0 from it.

Unless your only definition of justice is death, sounds like he go the max possible justice served without dying.
 
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Haast_sl said:
Read up, bro.

Wikipedia: "He was sentenced to serve seven consecutive life terms plus 140 years in prison without parole."

He was also fined millions and millions of dollars so if someone ever wrote a book about him, he would go $0 from it.

Unless your only definition of justice is death, sounds like he go the max possible justice served without dying.
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I think death or life imprisonment isn't justice served for killing multiple innocent people. I don't know what you'd need to do to a man before I considered justice having been served (aka torture, imprison/death of his family etc) but I wouldn't approve of it anyway. It's not necessary to bring justice to every act.
 
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Tuco_sl said:
I think death or life imprisonment isn't justice served for killing multiple innocent people. I don't know what you'd need to do to a man before I considered justice having been served (aka torture, imprison/death of his family etc) but I wouldn't approve of it anyway. It's not necessary to bring justice to every act.
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Phoenix asserted that because he was crazy, justice would not be served. Loughner was declared fit for trial and got the most severe penalty available short of death. So he did not escape with a crazy plea.

While I think he should be killed slowly and painfully for his crime, such a sentence does not exist.
 
Big Phoenix

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He should of received death. Just another stupid aspect of our society, people who beyond a shadow of a doubt commit murder dont get the death penalty but people not beyond it get it.
 
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In a way, I think life in prison can be worse than death.

The way our justice system works though, the 12 random retards in charge of determining guilt have been wrong in the past and will be wrong in the future.
 
Araysar

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no need for a death penalty.

death penalty doesnt satisfy justice, only vengeance. if you want to live in an eye for an eye society, go try saudi arabia.
 
Aychamo BanBan

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I support whatever is cheaper, failing that, if you are on death row then minimal if any medical care. Fuck having tax payers provide medical care and living expenses for the next 60 years for some murderer.

There's a funny thing that happens in hospitals. We'll get incarcerated people come in with really strange medical problems, and more often than not, as their medical bill gets up in the hundreds of thousands, magically their charges are dropped and they are released from prison. Why? Because then the state (or whomever) no longer has to pay for their medical bill. Of course the hospital is now fucked out of that money. Which means everybody who actually pays for their insurance ultimately eats the bill.

(I realize my two paragraphs contradict themselves.)
 
Araysar

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hard to imagine something more sicker than a doctor supporting the death penalty.

maybe a pedophile running a child care
 
Tuco

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aychamo_aycono_sl said:
There's a funny thing that happens in hospitals. We'll get incarcerated people come in with really strange medical problems, and more often than not, as their medical bill gets up in the hundreds of thousands, magically their charges are dropped and they are released from prison. Why? Because then the state (or whomever) no longer has to pay for their medical bill. Of course the hospital is now fucked out of that money. Which means everybody who actually pays for their insurance ultimately eats the bill.
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Any citation for this being a common problem?
 
Aychamo BanBan

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Tuco_sl said:
Any citation for this being a common problem?
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Personal experience. It's happened multiple times. I have no data on how often it happens or what the ultimate aftermath of it all is because that's all outside of what I'm there to do. Last patient I saw it on had a congential heart problem that manifested when patient was put on multiple QT prolonging psychiatric medications. She was released before she was discharged.

Araysar_sl said:
hard to imagine something more sicker than a doctor supporting the death penalty.
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lol stupid. You truly are nothing but a troll. Still butthurt about getting your ass handed to you by every poster in the Zero Dark Thirty thread?
 
Aychamo BanBan

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Flunklesnarkin_sl said:
This isn't a representative sample by any means. A quick good search turned this up though.

http://www.cdispatch.com/news/articl...47&TRID=1&TID=

Florida released 89 terminally ill inmates. Most died within 4 months. 18 were still alive and 8 got sent back to prison for offending again.
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Interesting article. I liked that it said it saved the state $5,000,000. But who do you think that cost fell on? All of you that pay for your health insurance.
 
Araysar

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aychamo_aycono_sl said:
lol stupid. You truly are nothing but a troll. Still butthurt about getting your ass handed to you by every poster in the Zero Dark Thirty thread?
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Bro, how salty are you going to be over that? You keep yapping and nipping at my heels, I keep owning you. It's just a natural order of things.
 
Tuco

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Araysar_sl said:
hard to imagine something more sicker than a doctor supporting the death penalty.

maybe a pedophile running a child care
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I'm not big on the death penalty either but I completely disagree. As to your retarded metaphor, it's only relevant if the doctor is pro-death and works in a jail where all his patients are lifers.
 
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