H1Z1 (Not actually an MMO) - Server: Antidote (info in first post)

zzeris · Apr 27, 2014

Quaid_sl said:
Exactly.

A good social game is about the free-flowing exchange of emotion. This is something EverQuest stumbled backwards into and got very very right. Fear, frustration, excitement, anger, anticipation... All critical for a decent online experience.

Not only that but it would be so easy to implement solutions that aren't 'denial of service'. In the early levels have a torch auto included for everyone. People then have the choice of using or not using. Have a limited area of vision like all light sources at night. Have the intro area start with a lighter version of darkness and make it world related why this is so. I loved kithicor forest and would love to see similar use of night and day cycles. I want day/night/ rain, snow, sun, etc.

Elidroth, yes I expect all my games to have guns, zombies, elves, dwarves, darkness, jeeps, dragons, and swords. Any other questions? Oh, and giant grappling hooks are a must as well. All games must be exactly the same as I obviously mentioned when wanting to see some darkness at night. How demanding of me...

OneofOne · Apr 27, 2014

So I don't get it. It's a perma-death game, that has no levels or skills or anything (other than equipment I guess) that makes you different from the other guy? So you live long enough to collect shit, die, lose everything, and what? Make another guy on the same server to collect shit, die, lose everything, and start again? Do I have it right? If so, that actually negates any death penalty for anyone in a guild/group doesn't it? You die around your buddies, they loot you, and hand your shit to your new character. You've lost no progression or anything. Only solo guys or unlucky guildies lose all their shit - but likely their guildies can hook up their new body with equipment so, again death doesn't matter.

I feel like I'm missing something.

Teekey · Apr 27, 2014

Quaid_sl said:
That isn't what he said at all. He wasn't talking about racial night vision, which indeed is a silly concept unless darkness is a central component to your game experience. He was talking about a new player exiting their starting city and being unable to continue because it was too dark. He referred to this as 'denial of service' and it was absolutely ridiculous.

The question SPECIFICALLY brought up racial vision, particularly Barbarians.

"If you were a Barbarian and couldn't see at night, you literally needed a torch to get anywhere....Can we expect races to have different provisions and that kind of stuff or is it going to be..."

Quaid_sl said:
He was talking about a new player exiting their starting city and being unable to continue because it was too dark. He referred to this as 'denial of service' and it was absolutely ridiculous.

"People who absolutely couldn't see and couldn't play, couldn't continue. You will not see it in our game. Starting, entering the game, not being able to move around, not being able to see anything... <shakes head> No."

He's specifically referring to people logging in for the first time and being unable to play because they can't see anything. So if darkness is not a 'central component to the game experience' for EverQuest next, why is it ridiculous that they don't want such things for a new player experience?

It's not that they believe there shouldn't be darkness in EverQuest Next, they just don't think new players barely being able to play because they can't see anything is a good 'feature'. That's the point.

zzeris_sl said:
Late reply but I'd love for my nights to be dark and my days to be light unless there's a world based reason for it not to be so. Do I want some fear in my fantasy based game but it's only allowed in the zombie game?

If you read the rest of his quote, Butler absolutely agrees with you:

"However, the use of darkness to exploit mood, situations, to bring out emotionality and fear... effectively a changing day/night cycle that is absolutely real where you can adventure in the darkness, you can go underground and it is extremely dark, maybe pitch dark in places you go... but not in places that you start. Hugely important to us, the need to carry a torch and a light source - hugely important to us, but not to the level where you are not going to be able to play the game in the areas where you expect to be able to."

Mr Creed · Apr 27, 2014

OneofOne_sl said:
If so, that actually negates any death penalty for anyone in a guild/group doesn't it? You die around your buddies, they loot you, and hand your shit to your new character. You've lost no progression or anything:

Same as death penalty in other MMO games, the more organized/connected/high-level you are, the less it matters.

Quaid · Apr 27, 2014

Darkness, and dealing with its effects, were absolutely critical to my 'new player experience'.

Having to secure light sources for safe travel was not a denial of service, it was an enhancement of it.

That dark line of trees when I entered EC is forever burned in my memory. Running from inn to inn for safety, seeing others congregated there taking advantage of the light they gave off... Taking the raft from Halas into the dark newbie tunnel, then emerging into the twisting Everfrost peaks. The anxiety I felt in that moment was a direct result of the use of darkness. That emotional connection, the fear I felt, was the reason I became attached to that character, that setting, and ultimately the game itself.

These are the things that made the world another player, and not just a thing to be passed through on your way to somewhere more interesting.

Luckily, it looks like they aren't afraid of replicating these emotions in H1Z1.

Adebisi · Apr 27, 2014

OneofOne_sl said:
So I don't get it. It's a perma-death game, that has no levels or skills or anything (other than equipment I guess) that makes you different from the other guy? So you live long enough to collect shit, die, lose everything, and what? Make another guy on the same server to collect shit, die, lose everything, and start again? Do I have it right? If so, that actually negates any death penalty for anyone in a guild/group doesn't it? You die around your buddies, they loot you, and hand your shit to your new character. You've lost no progression or anything. Only solo guys or unlucky guildies lose all their shit - but likely their guildies can hook up their new body with equipment so, again death doesn't matter.

I feel like I'm missing something.

Going by DayZ experience: Being in a big group helps but it doesn't make you or your group invincible. Also, you have a limited amount of bag space, so you can't just loot all your dead buddy's gear and hand it back to him. Our DayZ crew has a great video where we were protecting the body of one of our teammates until he could get back and loot all his stuff. The shootout that caused the death to begin with drew the attention of a ton of people who were runnig around - some trying to loot the body, some just being plain distracting. I think we all died in the end.

Having permanent storage (tents/bases) change the game quite a bit. You can start to hoard away all sorts of stuff for use when you get killed or when you want to gear up a pal. The thing is, these storage containers are lootable by anyone, so you have to hide it well. There are people who just spend hours looking for tents to rob for "easy" gear. Some lone wolfs even stalk groups to their tent stash so they can loot them.

Permadeth is what levels the playing field imo. You can spend hours getting all the best gear. You can roll with a 10 man team. You can be the king of the server with cars and helicopters at your disposal. But know that your world can all come crashing down in a second at the hands of a sneaky noobie putting an axe in your head. Next thing you know that noob is rollin' in your jeep, shooting your guns, and fucking your hot zomebies in your tent.

Teekey · Apr 27, 2014

Quaid_sl said:
Darkness, and dealing with its effects, were absolutely critical to my 'new player experience'.

Good for you. But I'm going to assume you're not the average F2P MMO player that they need to attract, and not scare away within the first 5 minutes of trying the game.

Quaid · Apr 27, 2014

Teekey_sl said:
Good for you. But I'm going to assume you're not the average F2P MMO player that they need to attract, and not scare away within the first 5 minutes of trying the game.

Well then don't call it something ridiculous like "denial of service" like we are retards. Call it what it is. Increased accessibility for your target market.

gogojira_sl · Apr 27, 2014

I'll wait to see what darkness means when I actually see it in game. I can understand why H1Z1 would be significantly darker, but I certainly don't want EQN being devoid of dim lit environments.

I've become an optimist with EQN I guess, which is weird considering my attitude coming out of SOE Live.

Teekey · Apr 27, 2014

Quaid_sl said:
Well then don't call it something ridiculous like "denial of service" like we are retards. Call it what it is. Increased accessibility for your target market.

I don't really think there's that big of a difference between those two statements. You just seem to be getting hung of on their wording, despite meaning basically the same thing.

If the game is not accessible (eg: overly difficult to play because you can't see shit), then it is a denial of being able to play the game for many players.

Felmega_sl · Apr 27, 2014

Teekey_sl said:
I don't really think there's that big of a difference between those two statements. You just seem to be getting hung of on their wording, despite meaning basically the same thing.

If the game is not accessible (eg: overly difficult to play because you can't see shit), then it is a denial of being able to play the game for many players.

No. Your'e flailing. A dark night environment does not equal a denial of service. Your'e being obtuse for some reason.

zzeris · Apr 27, 2014

I see H1 is going with very dark environments and I'm sure EQN will pull off the same type of environments. The level of accessibility will be different but both games have me excited.

Adebisi, I really hope they go in that direction. The constant tension from zombies plus other players will really add to the game. You are never safe.

kudos · Apr 27, 2014

Please tell me this is to be funny. I can't really believe you think this looks good.

Teekey · Apr 27, 2014

Felmega_sl said:
No. Your'e flailing. A dark night environment does not equal a denial of service. Your'e being obtuse for some reason.

No one is arguing against a dark night environment, depending on your definition of 'dark'. I think EverQuest Next has shown pretty good contrast between their day and night cycles:

It's possible to have a big contrast between day and night, that creates mood and tension, without looking like this:

kudos_sl said:
Please tell me this is to be funny. I can't really believe you think this looks good.

I don't think it looks that bad, but it was certainly good at riling people up when EQ Next was first announced.

Kenadul · Apr 27, 2014

Teekey_sl said:
It's possible to have a big contrast between day and night, that creates mood and tension, without looking like this:

I understand what you're trying to say but that EQ pic is pretty well lit considering how bad it could be. At least post a legit dark screenshot from it, not one that clearly shows everything in the distance.

InterSlayer_sl · Apr 28, 2014

If you missed it, there is a day long Livestream/IRL event at SOE offices forH1Z1 Tues Apr 29thfrom 9am-9pm.

Smed istaking suggestionson a fun feature to work on during the stream, preferably one that they can finish in a day.

SOE is also opening their offices from 12pm-5pm PST to hang out with the H1Z1 devs and other fans down in San Diego.

Neat recent video from smed's twitpic:

Treesong · Apr 28, 2014

kudos_sl said:
Please tell me this is to be funny. I can't really believe you think this looks good.

I have to sey that these "Free Realms" graphics were a turn off for me. I guess I do care about graphics after all in a strange way. Since I have no problem playing that little Halfling in your sig.

mkopec · Apr 28, 2014

Teekey_sl said:
Denial of service

Night needs to be night in these games. As soon as they started to get rid of night and replacing it with WoWified night, which was just a different hue of the daytime, it lost its meaning. Night neeeds to be scary, night needs to have meaning. Its not about mood and tension but making night be night again.

Did you ever play Planetside 2? Go check out a night battle in that game and see for yourself what it adds to the game.

In a survival type zombie apocalypse game, I want night to be night. If you want to see, get a torch or build a light source. And if you dont like any of that shit, you dont have to play. Night is an integral gameplay feature of survival type games, lets keep it that way.

kaid · Apr 28, 2014

Kenadul_sl said:
I understand what you're trying to say but that EQ pic is pretty well lit considering how bad it could be. At least post a legit dark screenshot from it, not one that clearly shows everything in the distance.

As a human mage starting in qeynos I cannot tell you the number of times I ran to black burrow in response from desperate tells from new barbarians stuck in the pitch black tunnel of death that lead between halas and black burrow. There was a bend where it was possible to pretty much just bounce around and never be able to escape it when you were totally blind. It was not dark it was total absence of light. Planetside 2 shows you can do really dark and still be pretty. If they remove the spotting feature they have in planetside 2 at night without some kind of night vision there were areas it could be hard to spot anybody on foot.

Schags · Apr 28, 2014

kaid_sl said:
As a human mage starting in qeynos I cannot tell you the number of times I ran to black burrow in response from desperate tells from new barbarians stuck in the pitch black tunnel of death that lead between halas and black burrow. There was a bend where it was possible to pretty much just bounce around and never be able to escape it when you were totally blind. It was not dark it was total absence of light. Planetside 2 shows you can do really dark and still be pretty. If they remove the spotting feature they have in planetside 2 at night without some kind of night vision there were areas it could be hard to spot anybody on foot.

Barbarians just needed to run backwards down the tunnel to keep the previous torch on the wall in view until you weren't moving anymore, then turn and do the same. Eventually you hit the zone in to BB. It worked better without a train on you though.

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H1Z1 (Not actually an MMO) - Server: Antidote (info in first post)

zzeris

King Turd of Shit Hill

OneofOne

Silver Baronet of the Realm

Teekey

Mr. Poopybutthole

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit

Quaid

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Adebisi

Clump of Cells

Teekey

Mr. Poopybutthole

Quaid

Trump's Staff

gogojira_sl

shitlord

Teekey

Mr. Poopybutthole

Felmega_sl

shitlord

zzeris

King Turd of Shit Hill

kudos

Teekey

Mr. Poopybutthole

Kenadul

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InterSlayer_sl

shitlord

Treesong

Bronze Knight of the Realm

mkopec

kaid

Blackwing Lair Raider

Schags

Bronze Knight of the Realm