Health Problems

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moonarchia

moonarchia

The Scientific Shitlord
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ToeMissile said:
I’ve read recently that melatonin is a bad idea to help with sleep. Since it’s a hormone adding it fucks with your overall balance.

think I’ve posted it before, but this has been helpful and informative for me:
hubermanlab.com

Toolkit for Sleep

The first Neural Network newsletter provides actionable tools, including a 12 step guide, to improve sleep.
hubermanlab.com hubermanlab.com
Click to expand...
Read what specifically? Asking because I use melatonin early and often, and would like to know. It is one of the few things I have found that has been able to let me get effective sleep, unfortunately.
 
Gurgeh

Gurgeh

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moonarchia said:
Read what specifically? Asking because I use melatonin early and often, and would like to know. It is one of the few things I have found that has been able to let me get effective sleep, unfortunately.
Click to expand...
There is no study showing it, but I think the reason why some people are recommending to not use it long term is that, since it's a hormone, if you take a lot of it on a regular basis it could leat to atrophy of the pineal gland which is naturaly producing it. I haven't found any study backing that, but there are little studies regarding long term safety of melatonin, and it does seem to be a valid concern.

I'm in the same situation, to be on the safe side I try to not take it more than once or twice a week, and taking break for a few weeks. I'm trying Tryptophan (same as melatonin, 30 mn before sleep) it seems to have roughly the same efficiency on me, while being even less dangerous (probably, as you get as much tryptophan from a steak than from a pill for sleeping).

Tryptophan is what your pineal gland needs to produce melatonin, so it seems even safer than melatonin as you're taking a small amount in comparison to food, and the added benefit is also more serotonin which doesn't hurt to sleep, and it will not suppress naturel production of melatonin. Makes sense, but there isn't much study behind this.

But there is some possible issue with tryptophan as well, you need to take it at least 2 hours after eating any protein, as it's an amino acid that will compete with others, so when you take a pill of it in this situation, you get a lot more of it absorbed than with food, since it comes with proteins in food. I haven't found any study showing any serious problem with long term use of Tryptophan, actually it's the opposite (boost mood, cognitive function, enhance sleep...) but as anything unatural I try to use as little as really needed.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Effects of exogenous melatonin administration and withdrawal in five patients with rapid-cycling bipolar disorder - PubMed

The administration of melatonin had no significant effects on mood or sleep. However, melatonin withdrawal delayed sleep onset time and may have had some mild mood-elevating effects.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Effects and side effects associated with the non-nutritional use of tryptophan by humans - PubMed

The daily nutritional requirement for L-tryptophan (Trp) is modest (5 mg/kg). However, many adults choose to consume much more, up to 4-5 g/d (60-70 mg/kg), typically to improve mood or sleep. Ingesting L-Trp raises brain tryptophan levels and stimulates its conversion to serotonin in neurons...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
Last edited:
moonarchia

moonarchia

The Scientific Shitlord
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Gurgeh said:
There is no study showing it, but I think the reason why some people are recommending to not use it long term is that, since it's a hormone, if you take a lot of it on a regular basis it could leat to atrophy of the pineal gland which is naturaly producing it. I haven't found any study backing that, but there are little studies regarding long term safety of melatonin, and it does seem to be a valid concern.

I'm in the same situation, to be on the safe side I try to not take it more than once or twice a week, and taking break for a few weeks. I'm trying Tryptophan (same as melatonin, 30 mn before sleep) it seems to have roughly the same efficiency on me, while being even less dangerous (probably, as you get as much tryptophan from a steak than from a pill for sleeping).

Tryptophan is what your pineal gland needs to produce melatonin, so it seems even safer than melatonin as you're taking a small amount in comparison to food, and the added benefit is also more serotonin which doesn't hurt to sleep, and it will not suppress naturel production of melatonin. Makes sense, but there isn't much study behind this.

But there is some possible issue with tryptophan as well, you need to take it at least 2 hours after eating any protein, as it's an amino acid that will compete with others, so when you take a pill of it in this situation, you get a lot more of it absorbed than with food, since it comes with proteins in food. I haven't found any study showing any serious problem with long term use of Tryptophan, actually it's the opposite (boost mood, cognitive function, enhance sleep...) but as anything unatural I try to use as little as really needed.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Effects of exogenous melatonin administration and withdrawal in five patients with rapid-cycling bipolar disorder - PubMed

The administration of melatonin had no significant effects on mood or sleep. However, melatonin withdrawal delayed sleep onset time and may have had some mild mood-elevating effects.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Effects and side effects associated with the non-nutritional use of tryptophan by humans - PubMed

The daily nutritional requirement for L-tryptophan (Trp) is modest (5 mg/kg). However, many adults choose to consume much more, up to 4-5 g/d (60-70 mg/kg), typically to improve mood or sleep. Ingesting L-Trp raises brain tryptophan levels and stimulates its conversion to serotonin in neurons...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info. Will amazon some tryptophan and see how it compares.
 
ToeMissile

ToeMissile

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moonarchia said:
Read what specifically? Asking because I use melatonin early and often, and would like to know. It is one of the few things I have found that has been able to let me get effective sleep, unfortunately.
Click to expand...
Stuff via Huberman mainly.
I don’t have links to studies he mentions, but here’s an excerpt from him on Tim Ferris’ podcast. Seems like a hard pass for kids, and make your decision etc for adults. (Didn’t include the kid info in the spoiler)
And I think it was the one experiment that I did where we took — we were working on these little, they’re called Siberian hamsters, these little hamsters, who in long days, because they are seasonally breeding animals, in long days, these Siberian hamsters have testicles, well, that at least for Siberian hamsters, are a pretty impressive size. If however, you inject those animals with melatonin, or you put them into short days, so you increase the amount of darkness and you decrease the amount of light, remembering, of course, that light inhibits melatonin, their testicles shrink to the size of a grain of rice.

So I don’t know if this was my male ego or something, but I saw that experiment and I thought, “Wow, this is powerful stuff. This melatonin stuff.” And it turns out in females of the same species, they leave estrous, they stop cycling. They don’t have menstrual cycles, they have estrous cycles. And there are powerful effects of melatonin on the reproductive axis. Now, humans are not seasonal breeders, and we have a more robust sex steroid hormone axis than that. But, especially for children, but also for adults, it just seems to me that melatonin has a number of other effects that are worth considering, enough effects that I tend to avoid it.
tim.blog

The Tim Ferriss Show Transcripts: Dr. Andrew Huberman — A Neurobiologist on Optimizing Sleep, Performance, and Testosterone (#521) - The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss

Please enjoy this transcript of my interview with Dr. Andrew Huberman (@hubermanlab), a neuroscientist and tenured professor in the Department of Neurobiology at Stanford University’s School of Medicine. Andrew has made numerous important contributions to the fields of brain development, brain...
tim.blog tim.blog
 
LiquidDeath

LiquidDeath

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Break said:
Chances are you're hearing constantly about how unhealthy "seed oils" are for cooking. Does it seem to anyone else like the people making these claims don't actually know what they're talking about? As in, they claim they're bad, but they never have any scientific data to show why?
Click to expand...
I mean, to start you have that they oxidize very readily and oxidized oils of any type are terrible for you.

More than anything, though, it is the fact that in the exact same time period as we have replaced natural fats with chemically extracted and enhanced oils we've seen an epidemic of obesity, diabetes, and overall metabolic syndrome.
 
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Gurgeh

Gurgeh

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ToeMissile said:
Stuff via Huberman mainly.
I don’t have links to studies he mentions, but here’s an excerpt from him on Tim Ferris’ podcast. Seems like a hard pass for kids, and make your decision etc for adults. (Didn’t include the kid info in the spoiler)
And I think it was the one experiment that I did where we took — we were working on these little, they’re called Siberian hamsters, these little hamsters, who in long days, because they are seasonally breeding animals, in long days, these Siberian hamsters have testicles, well, that at least for Siberian hamsters, are a pretty impressive size. If however, you inject those animals with melatonin, or you put them into short days, so you increase the amount of darkness and you decrease the amount of light, remembering, of course, that light inhibits melatonin, their testicles shrink to the size of a grain of rice.

So I don’t know if this was my male ego or something, but I saw that experiment and I thought, “Wow, this is powerful stuff. This melatonin stuff.” And it turns out in females of the same species, they leave estrous, they stop cycling. They don’t have menstrual cycles, they have estrous cycles. And there are powerful effects of melatonin on the reproductive axis. Now, humans are not seasonal breeders, and we have a more robust sex steroid hormone axis than that. But, especially for children, but also for adults, it just seems to me that melatonin has a number of other effects that are worth considering, enough effects that I tend to avoid it.
tim.blog

The Tim Ferriss Show Transcripts: Dr. Andrew Huberman — A Neurobiologist on Optimizing Sleep, Performance, and Testosterone (#521) - The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss

Please enjoy this transcript of my interview with Dr. Andrew Huberman (@hubermanlab), a neuroscientist and tenured professor in the Department of Neurobiology at Stanford University’s School of Medicine. Andrew has made numerous important contributions to the fields of brain development, brain...
tim.blog tim.blog
Click to expand...
It seems like working as intended... Considering how widely used melatonin is for lots of stuff and that no study report any serious side effect for melatonin for humans, I'd say it's one of the safest sleeping pill you can find. But as all supplement and drugs, obviously the least you need, the better... alternatives are terrible though, they either don't work very much or have lots of documented and terrible side effects.

I agree that you shouldn't use it long term, and try to find lifestyle change that will make you sleep better, but it's great with no serious side effect for short term use.
 
Break

Break

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LiquidDeath said:
I mean, to start you have that they oxidize very readily and oxidized oils of any type are terrible for you.

More than anything, though, it is the fact that in the exact same time period as we have replaced natural fats with chemically extracted and enhanced oils we've seen an epidemic of obesity, diabetes, and overall metabolic syndrome.
Click to expand...
I think sugar has a lot more to do with that.
 
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Gurgeh

Gurgeh

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Break said:
I think sugar has a lot more to do with that.
Click to expand...
Sugar is the worst offender, but I understand that people want to roll back everything done in the second half of the 20th century. 'Science' was telling us that carbs were the foundation of our diet... Those industrial fat don't look too great either. Probably a lot less bad than industrial sugar... But in doubt, if you can afford it, going organic butter/Olive oil makes sense.
 
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Goatface

Goatface

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on melatonin
currently i go to sleep with not much issue, wake up in 3-4 hours and will not be able to go back to sleep. this is sorta of a requiring issue, but normally can back to sleep in 1-2 hours, but dealing with stress now.
should i take melatonin before going to bed or when i wake up?
 
Guurn

Guurn

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I'm kinda curious, what time do you wake up? Take it before you go to sleep initially.
 
Kiroy

Kiroy

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Guurn said:
I'm kinda curious, what time do you wake up? Take it before you go to sleep initially.
Click to expand...

Ya people just think it's a sleeping pill when it's really not. You take it about 30 minutes before sleep to augment your natural melatonin. Lower your light intake as soon as you take it (so maybe read via low light, no phone tv) and it works perfectly. I use 3mg pills a few times a month on nights where I know I need to get to bed by a certain hour, but i'm not feeling all that tired. You really have to do it right to get the benefit. If you push past 30-60 minutes it won't work as well, or if you're in a high light intake situation until you attempt to sleep, it won't "activate".
 
Guurn

Guurn

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Goatface said:
going to bed between 11pm-12pm and wake up around 3am.
Click to expand...
This is a very normal phenomena. Scientists think that due to conditioning over 100s of thousands of years humans still wake up in the middle of the night to tend the now mythical fires. Just knowing that made it easier for me since I am one of those people. I wake up knowing full well that I'll be wakeful for about 45-90 minutes. After that I go back to sleep normally. Accepting it as a normal part of your sleep cycle will make it easier to deal with. Here is a typical summary of it.
 
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Sanrith Descartes

Sanrith Descartes

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Guurn said:
This is a very normal phenomena. Scientists think that due to conditioning over 100s of thousands of years humans still wake up in the middle of the night to tend the now mythical fires. Just knowing that made it easier for me since I am one of those people. I wake up knowing full well that I'll be wakeful for about 45-90 minutes. After that I go back to sleep normally. Accepting it as a normal part of your sleep cycle will make it easier to deal with. Here is a typical summary of it.
Click to expand...
I guess my ass would have died out back then because when I hit the rack i sleep straight thru until 6am.
 
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moonarchia

moonarchia

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Sanrith Descartes said:
I guess my ass would have died out back then because when I hit the rack i sleep straight thru until 6am.
Click to expand...
I used to be able to sleep through anything, but I got really sensitive to light and noise over the years, which is not great for someone who works graves.

Minor update, just ordered a bottle of tryptophan, so we shall see if that works as well. If so, I can make that switch easy enough.
 
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Rajaah

Rajaah

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Still haven't tried the Abilify, maybe I won't.

Got a script for Cymbalta for pain and tried one of those. Jury is out but it definitely had a pronounced effect on me the day I took it, felt relaxed as fuck and in less pain.

Any experience with Cymbalta here?
 
C

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moonarchia said:
I got really sensitive to light and noise over the years
Click to expand...
I've started sleeping with earplugs in and my sleep quality went WAY up. I thought it would give me trouble hearing my alarm in the morning, but actually I'm sleeping soundly enough that I consistently wake up feeling good 5 minutes before the alarm.
 
Koushirou

Koushirou

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Captain Suave said:
I've started sleeping with earplugs in and my sleep quality went WAY up. I thought it would give me trouble hearing my alarm in the morning, but actually I'm sleeping soundly enough that I consistently wake up feeling good 5 minutes before the alarm.
Click to expand...
Any in particular you would recommend? I suck at sleeping, and all the fans I've attempted to install in the bedroom keep ticking like crazy, so time for earplugs apparently.
 
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