Hearthstone
- Thread starter Azrayne
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I had a 7/14 Lightwell and a Northshire Cleric and 30 life and he had Sylvanas and 13 life. I burned my brain to the fuse point and finally I cast Divine Spirit on his Sylvanas to make him a 5/10 and then went to the face bringing him down to 5. He conceded. Feels good man.
brekk
Dancing Dino Superstar
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Priest wins are nice. I like the ability for massive burst working so well alongside strong survivability.
Edit: Case in point. Feels good man.
Angelwatch
Trakanon Raider
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Yeah, I'm seeing that first hunter deck a lot. Lots of flares and freezing traps which weren't being used a month ago.
Gavinmad
Mr. Poopybutthole
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Flare is/was an incredibly underrated card. It kills in the mirror match, and it's roughly the equivalent of being able to run a 28 card deck, which is amazing for decks like hunter. Also, freezing trap is amazing because it triggers whenever you or a minion get attacked, unlike explosive/misdirection which require them to hit face.
Angelwatch
Trakanon Raider
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Freezing Trap is really annoying but it can also backfire spectacularly on the Huntard. I don't care about the extra mana cost if I get to re-use the battlecry on some cards (Ancient of Lore, I'm looking at you).
But Control Warrior, right now, is the way to go. There really aren't any bad matchups and we can, easily, handle Hunters. It's not unusual for me to be down 10 health or so by turn 3 due to leper gnomes, steady shot and axing their creatures, but then we start stacking the armor and they can never pull ahead again. The, obvious, downside to Control Warrior is the extreme expense. I pulled 3 of the 7 Legendaries in my deck from packs and crafted the others a long time ago. So I had all but the Warrior specific epics. But I did the math and found that my deck would cost around 10,320 dust to craft from scratch. That's a VERY steep entry barrier and it doesn't help that one of the "required" Legendary cards is Grommash (which was one of the very first Legendary cards I opened up) who won't help in any other class deck.
But Control Warrior, right now, is the way to go. There really aren't any bad matchups and we can, easily, handle Hunters. It's not unusual for me to be down 10 health or so by turn 3 due to leper gnomes, steady shot and axing their creatures, but then we start stacking the armor and they can never pull ahead again. The, obvious, downside to Control Warrior is the extreme expense. I pulled 3 of the 7 Legendaries in my deck from packs and crafted the others a long time ago. So I had all but the Warrior specific epics. But I did the math and found that my deck would cost around 10,320 dust to craft from scratch. That's a VERY steep entry barrier and it doesn't help that one of the "required" Legendary cards is Grommash (which was one of the very first Legendary cards I opened up) who won't help in any other class deck.
Control Warrior isn't quite as high barrier as he's describing and the full hunter deck isn't that low cost. Quite a few rares and Leeroy really is a staple because he synergizes so well (yet again) with UTH.
Gavinmad
Mr. Poopybutthole
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Quite a few rares? I count six rares, no epics, and one legendary in that first list I posted. Flare, Misdirection, Eaglehorn Bow, and Leeroy. The rest is all commons and basics. It's the cheapest competitive deck by miles and miles.
Control warrior, on the other hand, runs 5-7 legendaries (Cairne, Grommash, Ragnaros, Ysera, Alextrasza, Geddon, Sylvanas), 4 class epics that will only ever be played in control warrior (2x shield slam, brawl, Gorehowl), another epic that is pretty widely played (faceless), and 4 rares.
So, uh, yeah, he's quite accurately describing how high the barrier of entry is for control warrior.
The cost of rares quickly becomes negligible. If you just value cards by their dust cost, then a control warrior deck is worth around 10 times as much as an aggro hunter deck.
Angelwatch
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Here's the thing about Warrior Control though. Yes, the entry barrier is extremely high to run it at the maximum potential. However, a lot of those really big, expensive, Legendary cards you want to craft anyway.
Most Control Warriors run the following:
Ragnaros: Always considered one of the strongest Legendary cards in the game and is among the first crafted by those not lucky enough to open him early.
Ysera: Another one of the first Legendary cards to be crafted for most people because of how versatile she is. She forces removal and/or inefficient trades and she has an immediate impact.
Cairne Bloodhoof: A very powerful card that fits in a lot of decks because of how hard he is to remove. He will always trade 2 for 1 (at a minimum). Another early craft.
Sylvanas: I'll admit, she's nowhere near as powerful as she was at 5 mana. In fact, Warrior Control is one of the few decks that still run her on a regular basis but she still remains a strong force that forces inefficient trades or the chance to steal very powerful minions.
Alexstraza: Another powerful Legendary that a lot of people craft, relatively, early on. She works great in Warrior Control and Warlock Control and finds uses in a lot of other classes decks (Paladin and Mage in particular).
Baron Geddon: He's the black sheep of the list because outside of Warrior Control he's not used often. I still think he's a highly underrated card though. It's a controlled AOE to clear your opponent's board of rushers and then they still have to find a way to get rid of him. Because of the AOE he can trade 5 to 1 easily.
Grommash: Well Grommash is a problem. He's really only useful in Warrior Control but he's considered to be one of the essential cards. You can't replace him with another card because of what he's capable of.
So, yes, there is a high barrier for entry but for those of us playing for a long time (I've been around since early October), we're likely to have a lot of the required cards anyway. For a newer player, you're better off playing a Hunter Rush deck. Even without Leeroy, Hunter rush can be very cheap and it's stupid how well it works.
And I do agree that a really cheap deck's only real counter is a stupidly expensive deck is the very definition of imbalanced. Which speaks to how Hunter needs nerfed into the ground. But for those of us who can pull off the really expensive Warrior Control deck, we're going to take full advantage of not getting curb stomped every time we face off against Hunter Rush or a Zoo deck.
Most Control Warriors run the following:
Ragnaros: Always considered one of the strongest Legendary cards in the game and is among the first crafted by those not lucky enough to open him early.
Ysera: Another one of the first Legendary cards to be crafted for most people because of how versatile she is. She forces removal and/or inefficient trades and she has an immediate impact.
Cairne Bloodhoof: A very powerful card that fits in a lot of decks because of how hard he is to remove. He will always trade 2 for 1 (at a minimum). Another early craft.
Sylvanas: I'll admit, she's nowhere near as powerful as she was at 5 mana. In fact, Warrior Control is one of the few decks that still run her on a regular basis but she still remains a strong force that forces inefficient trades or the chance to steal very powerful minions.
Alexstraza: Another powerful Legendary that a lot of people craft, relatively, early on. She works great in Warrior Control and Warlock Control and finds uses in a lot of other classes decks (Paladin and Mage in particular).
Baron Geddon: He's the black sheep of the list because outside of Warrior Control he's not used often. I still think he's a highly underrated card though. It's a controlled AOE to clear your opponent's board of rushers and then they still have to find a way to get rid of him. Because of the AOE he can trade 5 to 1 easily.
Grommash: Well Grommash is a problem. He's really only useful in Warrior Control but he's considered to be one of the essential cards. You can't replace him with another card because of what he's capable of.
So, yes, there is a high barrier for entry but for those of us playing for a long time (I've been around since early October), we're likely to have a lot of the required cards anyway. For a newer player, you're better off playing a Hunter Rush deck. Even without Leeroy, Hunter rush can be very cheap and it's stupid how well it works.
And I do agree that a really cheap deck's only real counter is a stupidly expensive deck is the very definition of imbalanced. Which speaks to how Hunter needs nerfed into the ground. But for those of us who can pull off the really expensive Warrior Control deck, we're going to take full advantage of not getting curb stomped every time we face off against Hunter Rush or a Zoo deck.
Angelwatch
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On a related note. I take back what I said about "nerfing hunters into the ground." I know it will never happen but they don't need nerfs so much as they need to complete overhaul from the ground up. Mage's are in a similar state if for different reasons and I'd like to toss Priest in there as well. The other 6 classes are all pretty balanced around what they can do but the 3 I mentioned are all "broken" on some level.
Mages and Priests start really strong but become really bad, really fast. Trump's value Mage deck doesn't rely on any inherent strengths of the Mage beyond the fact that their cards have "value" to them. But there's not a lot of synergy between their cards and they struggle to find an identity after the harsh nerfs. Priests are similar. They're not great in constructed but they can be one of the most rage inducing opponent's due to their design of using opponent's cards and minions against them. It's simply "not fun" to have every minion you play get stolen somehow (shadow madness, cabal shadow priest, mind control) and then get fireballed in the face from a Mind Vision and Thougtsteal.
Hunters need an overhaul for other reasons. They start off strong and stay really strong due to the insane beast synergy. And most people who don't play Hunters all say the same thing: They're not fun to play against. As I mentioned in the post above, I agree with the earlier poster that such a cheap deck is really only countered by a stupidly expensive deck and that's the very definition of imbalanced.
But anyway, that's all just dreaming. Especially since we're in release I know that a rework of classes simply will not happen outside of expansions (and I'm expecting the first sometime in 2017).
Mages and Priests start really strong but become really bad, really fast. Trump's value Mage deck doesn't rely on any inherent strengths of the Mage beyond the fact that their cards have "value" to them. But there's not a lot of synergy between their cards and they struggle to find an identity after the harsh nerfs. Priests are similar. They're not great in constructed but they can be one of the most rage inducing opponent's due to their design of using opponent's cards and minions against them. It's simply "not fun" to have every minion you play get stolen somehow (shadow madness, cabal shadow priest, mind control) and then get fireballed in the face from a Mind Vision and Thougtsteal.
Hunters need an overhaul for other reasons. They start off strong and stay really strong due to the insane beast synergy. And most people who don't play Hunters all say the same thing: They're not fun to play against. As I mentioned in the post above, I agree with the earlier poster that such a cheap deck is really only countered by a stupidly expensive deck and that's the very definition of imbalanced.
But anyway, that's all just dreaming. Especially since we're in release I know that a rework of classes simply will not happen outside of expansions (and I'm expecting the first sometime in 2017).
chthonic-anemos
bitchute.com/video/EvyOjOORbg5l/
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This state of affairs seems to imply that development for Hearthstone's opening batch of cards was abandoned quite a ways back. If the 1st Xpack is more of the same then this ship might just sink.
Vandyn
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Right and the reason so many people get chapped is a relatively new player can climb up ranks really fast with hunter rush whereas a player that's been at this for awhile has to basically play one and only one deck (that's expensive to boot) to succeed at the same clip. It's the main reason why ranked these days is meaningless because it's littered with relatively newbie players that are all playing the same low cost deck. I think the solution is that they'll just make cards that are better defended against that type of deck to the point where it's not a steamroll anymore. Also want to point out that you don't need Leeroy to make that deck work which then makes it even more cheap.
Brand
Molten Core Raider
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All that hunter needs is a slight adjustment to the cost of two cards...
Make Buzzard a 2/3 and cost 3...Or even a 3/3. Cost 3 is what is important. Or let it remain a 2/1 for 2 and make it a 50% chance to draw a card when a beast comes into play.
UTH should cost 3 as well. And there we go. Hunter is now tuned.
Just my thinking on it.
Make Buzzard a 2/3 and cost 3...Or even a 3/3. Cost 3 is what is important. Or let it remain a 2/1 for 2 and make it a 50% chance to draw a card when a beast comes into play.
UTH should cost 3 as well. And there we go. Hunter is now tuned.
Just my thinking on it.
Mures
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Control warrior is not the one and only one deck that matches up favorably against hunter.
Gavinmad
Mr. Poopybutthole
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^^ This. Although UTH still needs to be addressed.
Druid, while not as expensive as warrior, is still not a very cheap deck to build.
Angelwatch
Trakanon Raider
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Agreed. But like I said, I expect our first expansion sometime around 2017. Hopefully in time for Christmas.