Hearthstone

Deathwing_sl said:

Just encouraging yourself to reinstall the game.

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I got the impression he already did.

Experimenting with a Reincarnate Shaman deck. Mage turn 1 Undertaker, turn 2 Undertaker+Clockwork, turn 3 Mechwarper+Chugga, turn 4 Mechwarper+Piloted Shredder. He is now out of cards, I'm at exactly six health and between a combination of weapons, spells, and Chows I will actually have his board clear next turn. I have a Healbot in hand that I'll be able to play. He top decks Fireball for exact lethal.

Why does ragnaros always fail me?

Just thought I'd pop in and reiterate that anyone who thinks Undertaker doesn't need to be nerfed is still a fucking retard who should be banned from posting in this thread.

That is all.

The Master_sl said:

Experimenting with a Reincarnate Shaman deck. Mage turn 1 Undertaker, turn 2 Undertaker+Clockwork, turn 3 Mechwarper+Chugga, turn 4 Mechwarper+Piloted Shredder. He is now out of cards, I'm at exactly six health and between a combination of weapons, spells, and Chows I will actually have his board clear next turn. I have a Healbot in hand that I'll be able to play. He top decks Fireball for exact lethal.

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Then you found out where he lived and murdered him and his genetic line I hope....right? right!?!?!?!?

Undertaker doesn't need a nerf and is never going to happen.

Seriously, I don't think any decks at the top of ladder even run undertaker anymore, maybe an occasional face hunter, but they get shit on in the current meta. The more control oriented hunter doesn't run it, supposedly deathrattle priest has made a comeback, but I haven't seen a single one all season(must be uber strong), and zoo hasn't been at the top of the ladder in over a month. No doubt the card changed the game, but if you haven't adapted to the way the game is played and still think its ok to hero power the first 3 turns you're going to have a bad time.

If it was so op that it needed nerfed why isn't it in more decks? All classes have an acceptable number of one drops now with clockwork gnome, so you can't say priest and hunter only run it because of chow and webspinner, literally any class could run it, yet only a couple do, and only in a couple of decks. Make a mage aggro deck with undertaker that performs better than mechmage or a paladin deck that is better than what we have now and you might have a point. Of course you can't do that because people who literally play hearthstone as a job have tried and have been unsuccessful. Good decks require consistency and undertaker is not that.

Well it's pretty obvious that you either don't watch streams or don't play on the ladder.

I get it, you're bored with the card and the strategies that employ it but balancing cards around a single deck format like ladder when all competitive events use multiple decks is an awful idea.

Gavinmad_sl said:

Well it's pretty obvious that you either don't watch streams or don't play on the ladder.

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If we're using anecdotal evidence, literally the only Undertakers I've seen on ladder this month have been the ones I've played in my outdated facehunter deck. Because I have almost no GvG and missing a lot of key classic cards to run anything more modern.

Arbitrary_sl said:

balancing cards around a single deck format like ladder when all competitive events use multiple decks is an awful idea.

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Probably 99.999% of games occur on ladder. I would certainly much rather they balance around it than tournament play atm.

Aggro is just out of control right now. It's just too strong.

Playing control, you are gambling that you get early removal so you can transition into the late game. Playing aggro, it's simply whoever is faster in going face. And the worst part? Ben Brode has gone on record as stating he likes fast games.

Undertake is a prime reason why aggro is out of control but it's not the only reason. Deathrattles, in general, are simply too strong. It's impossible to fight for board control when you have to wipe the board and then wipe it a second time to clean up all of the left over deathrattle minions.

It's simply not a fun game at the moment when every single person is running some variation of face aggro with the core of their strategy built around Undertaker, Deathrattles and Mech synergy.

Right now aggro is the best strategy. It's borderline the only viable strategy in fact. And that's unlikely to ever change because of how the game is designed and the designers views on the game. And that's unfortunate.

a_skeleton_02_sl said:

Undertaker doesn't need to be nerfed. They should print better options to deal with him.

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This. But you have to be careful with it because if it makes undertaker not a threat then its the same thing as nerfing undertaker.

Angelwatch_sl said:

Aggro is just out of control right now. It's just too strong.

Playing control, you are gambling that you get early removal so you can transition into the late game. Playing aggro, it's simply whoever is faster in going face. And the worst part? Ben Brode has gone on record as stating he likes fast games.

Undertake is a prime reason why aggro is out of control but it's not the only reason. Deathrattles, in general, are simply too strong. It's impossible to fight for board control when you have to wipe the board and then wipe it a second time to clean up all of the left over deathrattle minions.

It's simply not a fun game at the moment when every single person is running some variation of face aggro with the core of their strategy built around Undertaker, Deathrattles and Mech synergy.

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I think a lot of people like faster games. I personally like mid-rangey control games, I do not want every game to be lets play all 30 cards in our deck and see who drew in the better order. Last time we were having this discussion I said undertaker changed early game hearthstone, and he did, so you know what would happen if they nerfed undertaker? We'd go back to hero powering the first 3 turns every game and have 30 minute snooze fests every game. Control has gotten a lot of powerful tools the last couple of expansions, if aggro doesn't likewise get powerful tools early game will be non-existent in hearthstone.

If you think aggro is dominating the ladder you aren't at the top of ladder, and while not everyone can be, there are obviously tools to deal with aggro considering some of the stronger decks right now are ones that hard counter it, thus you don't have much aggro in the end. There is a reason why kolento hit #1 this month with that retarded mage deck and paladin is dominating at the top of ladder.

khalid_sl said:

Probably 99.999% of games occur on ladder. I would certainly much rather they balance around it than tournament play atm.

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There should be a second ladder that 100% mirrors the Blizzcon world championships. Ladder as it exists now is terrible.

mures_sl said:

I think a lot of people like faster games. I personally like mid-rangey control games, I do not want every game to be lets play all 30 cards in our deck and see who drew in the better order. Last time we were having this discussion I said undertaker changed early game hearthstone, and he did, so you know what would happen if they nerfed undertaker? We'd go back to hero powering the first 3 turns every game and have 30 minute snooze fests every game. Control has gotten a lot of powerful tools the last couple of expansions, if aggro doesn't likewise get powerful tools early game will be non-existent in hearthstone.

If you think aggro is dominating the ladder you aren't at the top of ladder, and while not everyone can be, there are obviously tools to deal with aggro considering some of the stronger decks right now are ones that hard counter it, thus you don't have much aggro in the end. There is a reason why kolento hit #1 this month with that retarded mage deck and paladin is dominating at the top of ladder.

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Just as the game should not be balanced around tournament play, neither should it be balanced around the top of the ladder. The top of the ladder is control heavy and once you hit Legend, there is no incentive to win games except for bragging rights of saying "I hit #1 Legend NA for 30 minutes before someone else came along and knocked me off." And while Control did get quite a few nice tools, we can't actually use them when the game is over / decided by Turn 4.

And I do agree that super slow decks are mentally draining when they become 30 card + Fatigue matches. But there needs to be a happy middle ground. And right now Aggro is simply too strong. Control and Removal simply haven't kept up since half of the deathrattles are guaranteed to go 2:1. And what's also annoying is that somewhere along the line Blizzard decided they hated the Silence mechanic and, thus, we haven't seen any new ones in GvG and the only one in Naxx was designed as to be so situational it's basically unplayable (Wailing Soul). So we're stuck with Owls and Spellbreakers until the end of time which means that Deathrattles will always be super strong.

I know a lot of people love AggroStone but I'm not one of them. I don't think every game needs to go 20+ turns but neither do I think a game should be over on Turn 3 because my opponent drew an Undertaker + 3 Deathrattles and I couldn't get the removal out quick enough. Both extremes are bad for the game.

And yes I know that this whole train of thought may sound like whining but I still stand by my year old statement that Hunter needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. I know it will never happen but I hate the design of the class which is designed around killing the opponent as quickly as possible without ever giving your opponent a chance to stabilize and come back.

Banshee would have been so fucking good if it silenced the whole board.