Hearthstone

Mage and Paladin are so far ahead of the other classes in Arena it's ridiculous. Their class commons are so strong and so reliable no matter how your deck turns out. I still think mage is by far the best, you just can't go wrong. I like to try to play every class in arena, but it's so difficult not to pick mage when it's an option and I know it's likely I'll go 10 wins with the mage and may not even hit 6 with the other options.

The Ancient_sl said:

Mage and Paladin are so far ahead of the other classes in Arena it's ridiculous. Their class commons are so strong and so reliable no matter how your deck turns out. I still think mage is by far the best, you just can't go wrong. I like to try to play every class in arena, but it's so difficult not to pick mage when it's an option and I know it's likely I'll go 10 wins with the mage and may not even hit 6 with the other options.

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There's nobody that would argue with that. It's pretty much an obvious given that Mage is way, way ahead of the rest of the classes and Paladin is a nearby second. Druid isn't far behind Paladin though and Rogue not far behind them. It's real simple, whoever has the best ability to affect the board state is the best. I try not to pick Mage every time anymore though because I still have a lot of classes to get to 60. Only Mage/Paladin/Druid and soon to be Rogue is at 60. Plus it's just too easy, if you are infinite it doesn't much matter. I enjoy picking the odd classes (except Hunter, never play Hunter in arena because I hate those tards) and doing interesting, unexpected things.

The meta is littered with hunters yet again. I wonder if Blizzard still cares or not. I wonder if people will start crying about the class again. At this point I really think the hero power might be what puts it over the top. For all the talk of how warlock hero power scaling would snowball (how are warlocks doing two expansions in Column? oh, they are at the bottom of the ladder, cool) and how mage/pally powers zomg affect the board guyz...that constant two damage unblockable to your face is maddening.

Simplest thing I can think of is to make taunt also give your hero immunity to hero power damage. That's not at all in keeping with how simple and streamlined Blizzard wants the game to be though.

There's plenty of other things that help hunter too of course. Skill Command is essentially a seven mana pyroblast that can be split up into targeted removal, of course this requires multiple cards but they pop up often enough. Hounds are still a nightmare because it punishes you for playing minions which is a huge part of how HS works. Yeah, overextending can be bad against sweeps but those all cost more mana and are less versatile in your deck list than UTH. Top this off with the irony that hunter secrets are still the most powerful and worst for playing around and we still have barely any options to deal with them other than one shitty tech card and one nerfed spell that only exists for hunters themselves.

I'm not bitching per se (but I am right?) because I could easily play hunter but I'm sick of playing hunter. I have level sixty golden hunters on two accounts. I want to play other classes and its to the point that every other ladder game is hunter anymore. It gets old and probably isn't healthy for the game. And what really counters them? Nothing that I've noticed, not that they are unbeatable but they really don't have a bad matchup.

Oil rogue is out of control too but its harder to give a fuck since rogue has been shit for so long and that's also a tougher deck to play well. That's more an issue of how focused on wombo-combo finishers this game has become. Oddly enough, hunter is probably the one class that doesn't really focus on any slam dunk combos as opposed to steady pressure across their curve.

(how are warlocks doing two expansions in Column? oh, they are at the bottom of the ladder, cool)

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This is the only season Zoo has been slightly weak imo.
Handlock is still fine, and to be honest we are still very early into GVG to be making those predictions yet... And Hunter has always been strong because Blizzard keeps giving them broken shit that has too much value, and synergy because their testing department is a joke. O wait we are their testers...

And really that has nothing to do with what is the best hero power over time in Hearthstone, which is what that conversation was about...

But everything is out of control! Lets nerf everything because little Timmy can't get past rank 10! or complete his daily!

Eh, what's a high rank? I've been to rank four this season and its as much as 50% hunter across the meta from rank 15 to the hell levels. No other class is so represented. And what broken shit did Blizzard give hunters in GvG? Literally nothing, all their class additions sucked. The only things they've added are high value neutrals like Shredder and Boom which everyone is running, even popular zoo lists are doing shredders now.

What are you talking about they still have amazing cards from their vanilla deck, and naxx...

Face hunter, and Mid range Hunter have always been good even before Scientist came out...

You said "Blizzard keeps giving them broken shit that has too much value" which isn't true, they haven't given them any new shit, its the same shit.

Famm_sl said:

You said "Blizzard keeps giving them broken shit that has too much value" which isn't true, they haven't given them any new shit, its the same shit.

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And they have for over a year now, could care less about GVG. Were still dealing with cards from vanilla and its expac...

Stop whining fool

Yeah, so hunter is fundamentally broken from the beginning. Mad sci helped, but the class design has been fucked from the get-go.

Or they could just employ non retarded people at Blizzard that can probly fix it in a couple of days way back in Vanilla.

FYI I don't think Hunter is as OP as you are making it out. You are over reacting. I've seen hunters when they were OP this is not even close.

If anything you want the same meta to be played out consistently so you can run decks into it. This is what they did with Druid when Scientist came out.
You don't want a several metas to be played out in the hours you are trying to ladder.

No arguments there. Sci was stupid, and it does benefit mage to a degree as well, but once again secrets are a development fuck up too and hunter benefits from the best of them all, so its a perfect storm of design dumbassery.

My whole point here is that hunters comprise half of the meta. Again. This has been the case literally the entire life of the game, despite being the most nerfed class by far and yet it keeps coming back. At some point we have to admit that this is a matter of one class having a power advantage over the rest of the game. Its real and its not even close. I'm all for leaving it alone and letting the meta evolve around it, but it is still impossible not to notice.

And we know Blizzard does care, and does care about casual Timmy the strawman and his army of forum morons. They've stated outright in the past that they didn't like how overrepresented hunter was. So they nerfed Buzzard. And Leeroy. And Hounds. And Undertaker (not just hunter but it really was one of two classes who benefitted most, the other being zoo which has suffered far more from the nerf.) I think I'm even forgetting a nerf. But none of that shit has changed anything. Every time the message board fuckwads rejoice in the death of hunter and every time its back to hunter-other-hunter-other all day long

I don't really care about any of that I just want the tournament mode they promised with GVG.

After over a year of this game it needs more ways for us to play it.

Webspinner was big too. They did get love with Naxx but nothing class specific for GvG. Spinner is a bit less crazy after UT nerf, but still a great value card considering its versatility as the best skill command activator.

Column_sl said:

I don't really care about any of that I just want the tournament mode they promised with GVG.

After over a year of this game it needs more ways for us to play it.

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Absolutely agree with that too. If 2v2 is really coming with this next adventure pack its sorely needed. The game would benefit from a variety of play modes more than anything at this point.

There's part of your Hunter problem.

and on the other end of the spectrum, here's the rest of your problem:

Xixos Season 11 Ladder Climbing Face Hunter - Hearthstone Top Decks

I know you didn't address it, but a lot of people were "surprised" that Hunter didn't, immediately, roll over and die after the Undertaker. Some people were naive enough to think that Undertaker getting nerfed would be enough to destroy Hunter. I know there's not a lot of those people here but to them I say this: The Undertaker nerf was never about destroying Hunters. It was to take a card that was clearly overpowered and bring it into line with what a 1 drop should be. Hunters simply showcased how broken Undertaker was.

With that out of the way, Hunters are just a strong class. They always have been because they are designed as a "kill the opponent fast" style of class where aggro is miles ahead of anything else. I've said it before, and I know it's WAY too late for this, but I truly believe that the class needs to be reworked from the ground up to remain viable but not broken. Their Hero Power, essentially, becomes a "Clock of Doom" and they have some of the most powerful class cards in the game. Freezing Trap as a 2 mana sap that increases the recast cost? That's broken in my opinion. Common sense says to "just use a little guy to pop the trap" but many times that's not practical. Skill Command is simply too good. Hunters are going to run a few beasts just as a matter of course so they, almost always, have an activator. Savannah Highmane is, arguably, the best 6 drop in the game.

A couple of final points and observations just since we're talking Hunters:

Often times a Hunter will get more value out of a trap remaining untriggered than the opponent triggering it. For example, when playing face hunter I'd drop an explosive and a bow. My opponent knows what I've done but they will go out of their way to avoid triggering it. I LOVE when my opponent does this because it gives me more time to draw into lethal while I keep hitting the button on my "Clock of Doom." I've seen streamers do the same thing and I'm sitting there thinking "You've got to pop that freezing trap sometime so you might as well just do it and get it over with." But I still maintain that Freezing Trap is too good. The penalty is simply too high. I get that the penalty exists because the Hunter doesn't control what gets caught in the trap but I still think it's too high of a penalty.

Last observation: Hunters bitching about card draw. This one annoys me because Hunters do not need card draw. Webspinners cycle themselves (and it's very rare to get something worse than the original webspinner in return). Tracking might thin your deck but, many times, it gets you the exact card you need when you need it (presuming you don't simply throw it away at the beginning of the game like many Hunters do just to cast something on turn 1). Mad Scientist pulls a card straight from your deck and into play. That's much better than simply drawing the card. And, finally, an aggro deck SHOULD be punished for vomiting out their hand and losing it all. Besides, if a hunter vomits out their hand and brings their opponent low enough, top decking is fine with the ever present "Clock of Doom."

Whats crazy, at the first Hearthstone panel at Blizzcon during vanilla they talked about retooling Hunters completely. It never happened tho, all we got was a million bad decisions on UTH

Angelwatch_sl said:

Last observation: Hunters bitching about card draw. This one annoys me because Hunters do not need card draw. Webspinners cycle themselves (and it's very rare to get something worse than the original webspinner in return). Tracking might thin your deck but, many times, it gets you the exact card you need when you need it (presuming you don't simply throw it away at the beginning of the game like many Hunters do just to cast something on turn 1). Mad Scientist pulls a card straight from your deck and into play. That's much better than simply drawing the card. And, finally, an aggro deck SHOULD be punished for vomiting out their hand and losing it all. Besides, if a hunter vomits out their hand and brings their opponent low enough, top decking is fine with the ever present "Clock of Doom."

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Yeah the need for draw is varied by decks. Running out of cards on hunter or mech mage is often more an issue of poor mana mangement than the deck's fault. They can run basically zero cycling cards and still be ok between spinner shredder and of course hunters are back to running a cult master now which isn't even needed but can put it way over the top at times. The kind of decks that really need to cycle are more stuff like druid and rogue where digging for your combos is imperative.

So I just pulled a golden flame leviathan. Should I disenchant for Dr. Boom?

I normally don't advocate disenchanting Golden Legendary cards... But if you're going to disenchant one, Flame Levithan is a good choice to disenchant and Dr. Boom is probably your best choice to craft.

To this day, I still only have ONE Golden Legendary (Cairne).