Hearthstone
- Thread starter Azrayne
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A lot of interesting cards for sure, I do feel like this expansion is much better looking than Witchwood...
BUT
It really seems like we're going to move back to aggro meta with games ending by turn 5 or so commonly.
So much FAST stuff, very little defense... there is some, and the meta is already kinda slow, so I can see why they pushed more aggressive cards.
Things I see immediately:
Aggro mage
Zoo
Miracle Rogue
Aggro Druid
Hunter cards look viable in the current meta but not in a faster meta.
Paladin cards are VERY haphazard.... kinda pushing a little of everything. I don't see a strong deck here other than Aggro/Odd type decks. Control list gets little support other than value cards. The 5 mana shrink ray is slow, but still 1 turn faster than Equal+Consec. But doesn't remove board.
Priest has STRONG divine/innerfire synergies here. Topsy Turvy can work as a 3rd/4th innerfire... Also Quest priest seems possible
Pogo Hopper Rogue has a chance, but I think Miracle will prove to be stronger... or maybe Pogo is part of miracle.
Shaman look like ass. Both Legendaries seem trash tier.. or work best in a token/aggro deck. I'm not seeing it atm. Probably shudderwock is best deck still.
8 of 10 warrior cards have some form of board control or aggro prevention. They might have a deck that works... but they do lack additional board clears. So you're still hoping to get that Brawl in hand early against aggro decks. Most of their kit is early game stabilization/rush cards. Maybe it'll be enough. Probably looking at a Mid-range mech deck.
Neutral cards are favoring aggro/rush/token much more than mid/control.
BUT
It really seems like we're going to move back to aggro meta with games ending by turn 5 or so commonly.
So much FAST stuff, very little defense... there is some, and the meta is already kinda slow, so I can see why they pushed more aggressive cards.
Things I see immediately:
Aggro mage
Zoo
Miracle Rogue
Aggro Druid
Hunter cards look viable in the current meta but not in a faster meta.
Paladin cards are VERY haphazard.... kinda pushing a little of everything. I don't see a strong deck here other than Aggro/Odd type decks. Control list gets little support other than value cards. The 5 mana shrink ray is slow, but still 1 turn faster than Equal+Consec. But doesn't remove board.
Priest has STRONG divine/innerfire synergies here. Topsy Turvy can work as a 3rd/4th innerfire... Also Quest priest seems possible
Pogo Hopper Rogue has a chance, but I think Miracle will prove to be stronger... or maybe Pogo is part of miracle.
Shaman look like ass. Both Legendaries seem trash tier.. or work best in a token/aggro deck. I'm not seeing it atm. Probably shudderwock is best deck still.
8 of 10 warrior cards have some form of board control or aggro prevention. They might have a deck that works... but they do lack additional board clears. So you're still hoping to get that Brawl in hand early against aggro decks. Most of their kit is early game stabilization/rush cards. Maybe it'll be enough. Probably looking at a Mid-range mech deck.
Neutral cards are favoring aggro/rush/token much more than mid/control.
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Arena changes relating to apperance rate. They also let you download the .csv for appearance rates and buckets
Developer Insights: 12.0 Arena Update with Kris Zierhut
Developer Insights: 12.0 Arena Update with Kris Zierhut
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Mahes
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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I think a Hunter bomb deck is going to be a real deck. There is plenty of boost mechs to add to the 0/2's that hunter will not have a problem with making them explode. The only question is how it is built.
Looking forward to seeing how this set adds to the meta.
Looking forward to seeing how this set adds to the meta.
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brekk
Dancing Dino Superstar
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Why is it so hard to just standardize special picks? Legendary pick on 5 and 10, Epic pick on 20 and 30. or Maybe Legend on 1 and 5, Epic pick on 10,20,30. Rares intermixed with commons.
Only reason I want legendary picks early is so you have a maybe a chance of selecting cards that synergize/activate a legendary pick.
OR as I have wanted for fucking years. Draft 35 cards, and then scratch 5. Allows people to take a risk on a synergy card and not get fucked if they don't get anything to support it. Right now arena is 100% about pure value of cards with no dependance on other cards.
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Ravishing
Uninspiring Title
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Oh lovely, an OTK has been discovered that only requires 8 mana and 7 cards. Sounds like a lot, but an OTK is an OTK and the fact it's before 10 mana and needs 0 setup (other than tons of draw) is a big deal.
r/hearthstone - Explanation of Trump's Test Subject OTK (more or less the gist of it)
If you can't decipher the image --- All of that happens in the same turn, eventually creating a 32/1 charging boar (5x Divines on Boar). Topsy kills Test Subject due to the 0 Atk.
8 mana due to the cost reductions from Radiants
It's also only 7 cards because you need only 1 Divine Spirit to start the combo.
If you think Taunts will work, remember they can add in Mass Dispell, which will be discounted / possibly free.
If Armor gain is an issue, I assume you can do 1 more rotation to add more Divine Spirits to hand, right now the combo for 32 dmg is 7 cards in hand, you could also put down Boar ahead of time and Mass Dispell ahead of time (if its discounted), and potentially get up to 9 Divine Spirits = 512/1 Boar.
(Edit: 1 correction is I assumed Vivid could be "thrown away" by casting on a minion even if board is full, but sounds like you can't, which means 5 divines might be maximum since Vivids will start clogging hand.. but maybe there's a workaround... someone suggested adding an unholy smite for some infinite 2dmg pings and you can kill off some minions for board space maybe, idk)
r/hearthstone - Explanation of Trump's Test Subject OTK (more or less the gist of it)
If you can't decipher the image --- All of that happens in the same turn, eventually creating a 32/1 charging boar (5x Divines on Boar). Topsy kills Test Subject due to the 0 Atk.
8 mana due to the cost reductions from Radiants
It's also only 7 cards because you need only 1 Divine Spirit to start the combo.
If you think Taunts will work, remember they can add in Mass Dispell, which will be discounted / possibly free.
If Armor gain is an issue, I assume you can do 1 more rotation to add more Divine Spirits to hand, right now the combo for 32 dmg is 7 cards in hand, you could also put down Boar ahead of time and Mass Dispell ahead of time (if its discounted), and potentially get up to 9 Divine Spirits = 512/1 Boar.
(Edit: 1 correction is I assumed Vivid could be "thrown away" by casting on a minion even if board is full, but sounds like you can't, which means 5 divines might be maximum since Vivids will start clogging hand.. but maybe there's a workaround... someone suggested adding an unholy smite for some infinite 2dmg pings and you can kill off some minions for board space maybe, idk)
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I could see it hard to pull of because of the god awful animation delay in the game, but otherwise seems doable, although the card requirement is pretty high. I guess you can probably play some form of super stall priest while waiting for the combo though, just stack taunts, removal and heals, priest is kinda designed around that theme to begin with so shouldn't be too hard.
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Ravishing
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I just did some analysis of this combo and unless I calculated something wrong then here are my findings:
Looks like a 9 mana combo minimum since you need to spend 1 mana to Vivid a 3rd Radiant. I can't see how it would be 8 mana (the reddit thread had people claiming it was 8mana).
There is actually LOTS of room to make the boar greater than 32/1 and you can also Vivid the Boar at the end to have 2 (or more) of them. You have 4 radiants (free mass dispell), 1 test subject, 1 boar... you can kill the last Test subject, gives you 5 minions on board (1 being boar), you can cast 2x Vivid to have 3 total boars after you already buff the 1 to 32 (or more) attack (use Vivid after the last Topsy).
You also have plenty of hand space to do the rotation a few more times, easily creating some monster damage
This is my theoretical board/hand state after the 4th rotation:
Mass Dispel has been cast during 4th rotation (no taunts in way).
Board: Radiant, Radiant, Radiant, Radiant, Test Subject (1x DS/Vivid buffs), Boar (1/4 (hit with DS 2x already
Hand: Divine Spirit, Divine Spirit, Vivid Nightmare, Vivid Nightmare, Topsy Turvy
Test Subject returns 2x DS/Vivids everytime you kill him as long as you DS/Vivid before topsy everytime. So you continually recieve 5 cards back.
Looks like a 9 mana combo minimum since you need to spend 1 mana to Vivid a 3rd Radiant. I can't see how it would be 8 mana (the reddit thread had people claiming it was 8mana).
There is actually LOTS of room to make the boar greater than 32/1 and you can also Vivid the Boar at the end to have 2 (or more) of them. You have 4 radiants (free mass dispell), 1 test subject, 1 boar... you can kill the last Test subject, gives you 5 minions on board (1 being boar), you can cast 2x Vivid to have 3 total boars after you already buff the 1 to 32 (or more) attack (use Vivid after the last Topsy).
You also have plenty of hand space to do the rotation a few more times, easily creating some monster damage
This is my theoretical board/hand state after the 4th rotation:
Mass Dispel has been cast during 4th rotation (no taunts in way).
Board: Radiant, Radiant, Radiant, Radiant, Test Subject (1x DS/Vivid buffs), Boar (1/4 (hit with DS 2x already
Hand: Divine Spirit, Divine Spirit, Vivid Nightmare, Vivid Nightmare, Topsy Turvy
Test Subject returns 2x DS/Vivids everytime you kill him as long as you DS/Vivid before topsy everytime. So you continually recieve 5 cards back.
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Ravishing
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Ravishing
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Last remarks:
Comparing this to the other OTK Priest deck with Velen and Spellstone.
On paper this one looks superior because:
- It doesn't force you to avoid minions in deck
- No setup required, other than tons of draw and staying alive (other OTK requires getting your minions kill so they can be rezzed for the OTK)
- Velen OTK has a cap of around 48 damage, more with Malygos, this combo theoretically blows past that.
- Velen combo often requires 10 mana
- Velen combo requires more cards... ~10 or so counting the setup ... 2x Radiant, 1x Spellstone, 2x Vivid, 1x Velen, 2x Mind Blast, 2x Smite = 10 cards.
Comparing this to the other OTK Priest deck with Velen and Spellstone.
On paper this one looks superior because:
- It doesn't force you to avoid minions in deck
- No setup required, other than tons of draw and staying alive (other OTK requires getting your minions kill so they can be rezzed for the OTK)
- Velen OTK has a cap of around 48 damage, more with Malygos, this combo theoretically blows past that.
- Velen combo often requires 10 mana
- Velen combo requires more cards... ~10 or so counting the setup ... 2x Radiant, 1x Spellstone, 2x Vivid, 1x Velen, 2x Mind Blast, 2x Smite = 10 cards.
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Ishad
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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It’s better than a deck that sucks and can’t bypass taunt.
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Ravishing
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Are you trying to troll? I can't tell if you're saying the Velen OTK was never good, this OTK isn't good, both, or ??
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Ravishing
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nice. Need some 0 mana silences, unfortunately can't squeeze in mass dispel... just add leeroy to above combo for 2x OTKs in 1 deck
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Makes sense. I guess basically drawing 2 divine spirits and 2 topsys and having anything on the board is more or less going to be an OTK or close enough to that any sort of buff(attack or defense) will make it so. For 4mana. You can still shadow vision too right this hasn't rotated? Which means finding these cards isn't even going to be that hard, can just discover copies. You could even cut all the additional crap from the other combo and just run a super defense taunt+buff deck and just rely on having something on the board at some point or on leeroy combo to OTK.
We'll see maybe it'll be too slow in the new meta or whatever but that sounds kinda dumb dumb.
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Ishad
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Valen otk was never good, this isn’t good, trump isn’t good at deck building.
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