Home buying thread

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Captain Suave

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But seriously, we can't talk about price at this dealership. We need to talk about payments, how much per month would you feel comfortable with right now?

Reminds me of the exchange when I bought my first car out of college:

"How would you like to pay, sir?"
"By check."
"Yes, but how would you like to finance the balance?"
"By check."
"With what loan size?"
"Zero."
"But then how do we finance the car?"
"With this check."
"At what interest rate?"
"There isn't one."
Etc.

Apparently I was the only person in his career who had just straight up paid for a car. I'm still driving the goddamn thing, too, lol.
 
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Sanrith Descartes

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Reminds me of the exchange when I bought my first car out of college:

"How would you like to pay, sir?"
"By check."
"Yes, but how would you like to finance the balance?"
"By check."
"With what loan size?"
"Zero."
"But then how do we finance the car?"
"With this check."
"At what interest rate?"
"There isn't one."
Etc.

Apparently I was the only person in his career who had just straight up paid for a car. I'm still driving the goddamn thing, too, lol.
Certain industries are just built on scum. Car dealerships are one such industry. They fuck over uneducated people on an hourly basis. I have been shopping for a car for my daughter and when I ask the salesman "how long has it been sitting on your floorplan?" They look at me like "how does he speak the secret language?".
 
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Cad

scientia potentia est
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Certain industries are just built on scum. Car dealerships are one such industry. They fuck over uneducated people on an hourly basis. I have been shopping for a car for my daughter and when I ask the salesman "how long has it been sitting on your floorplan?" They look at me like "how does he speak the secret language?".
Let me introduce you to any broker in any industry. House, car, boat, insurance... all the same. Merely profiting off a transaction while adding little to no value to people who know what they are doing, and they rip you off if you don't.
 
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Arative

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So I had my Sunday morning giggle today...

Get an email from my mortgage company. They do a quarterly review thing where they show you your estimated home value and then pitch various refi options and other stuff in there. You can tell it's automated because there's stuff in it which nobody who was thinking about talking me into a refi would put in.

For instance, it gives me options for refinancing with a current loan (at current rates) and extending to a new 15 or 30 year note. Only problem is both of those options would cost me MORE in interest on the loan while only shaving off maybe $150 a month from my home payment.

Then it tries to talk me into "use your equity put down 30% on a new home loan on a house worth (insert 3x my current home value)! Your new mortgage payment would only be around (insert 4.5x current mortgage payment)! Start shopping TODAY!" Sure this will lock you in as a debt slave to "those who are noticed" for the rest of your life, but you'll have a KICK ASS HOUSE!

SMH
My wife and I refi'd almost there years ago to 2.25 rate. I still get mail from the company saying I can refi and take equity out of my house.

They go straight in the trash.
 
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Gravel

Mr. Poopybutthole
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But seriously, we can't talk about price at this dealership. We need to talk about payments, how much per month would you feel comfortable with right now?
Don't even mention that you're paying in cash until you're already in the financing office.

Anytime before that and the dealership will try to fuck you. They make no money unless you finance. Once you've agreed upon a price and everything else, then let them know you're paying cash.

Or, something we had with our van, they straight up wouldn't let us pay cash. So we financed and made sure it was with a place without early payoff penalties. Just paid it off as soon as the information arrived.
 
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Fucker

Log Wizard
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Certain industries are just built on scum. Car dealerships are one such industry. They fuck over uneducated people on an hourly basis. I have been shopping for a car for my daughter and when I ask the salesman "how long has it been sitting on your floorplan?" They look at me like "how does he speak the secret language?".
Scum is about to get worse. Smaller banks and credit unions are allowing people to refi from 30 to 40 year mortgages. All the major players have their eyes on this. People will end up trading any form of equity for lower monthly payments so they can buy more house or more toys. 100% of these people will be surprised come house sale time when they see their take of appreciation getting eaten by that fat 40 year mortgage.

And then come retirement time they will be equally surprised when they can't stop working when they want because they can't use appreciation to downsize to a smaller but paid for house because their 40 year mortgage, chain of heloc's, and $80k SUV's for some reason nullified their ability to save and have assets.

This is all by design. Sane credit policies don't drive economic growth; a legion of people permanently in debt drives "economic growth".

I've said it before, and I'll say it again; we are entering the period of time when people will work their entire lives and will have nothing to show for it.

1n5wni-3036841111.gif
 
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Sanrith Descartes

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Don't even mention that you're paying in cash until you're already in the financing office.

Anytime before that and the dealership will try to fuck you. They make no money unless you finance. Once you've agreed upon a price and everything else, then let them know you're paying cash.

Or, something we had with our van, they straight up wouldn't let us pay cash. So we financed and made sure it was with a place without early payoff penalties. Just paid it off as soon as the information arrived.
Not 100% accurate. Dealerships do make money on the sale most times. Variables go into play like how long it has been eating up their floorplan (this interest they have paid). We started with a 25% margin dealer pricing to MSRP. They don't make a "ton" of money per unit on the sale alone. $40k car they probably paid $30k.
 

Sanrith Descartes

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Scum is about to get worse. Smaller banks and credit unions are allowing people to refi from 30 to 40 year mortgages. All the major players have their eyes on this. People will end up trading any form of equity for lower monthly payments so they can buy more house or more toys. 100% of these people will be surprised come house sale time when they see their take of appreciation getting eaten by that fat 40 year mortgage.

And then come retirement time they will be equally surprised when they can't stop working when they want because they can't use appreciation to downsize to a smaller but paid for house because their 40 year mortgage, chain of heloc's, and $80k SUV's for some reason nullified their ability to save and have assets.

This is all by design. Sane credit policies don't drive economic growth; a legion of people permanently in debt drives "economic growth".

I've said it before, and I'll say it again; we are entering the period of time when people will work their entire lives and will have nothing to show for it.

View attachment 501151
It's financial darwinism. The weak will be carrying those 40-yrs and the strong will be those who grabbed a refi at 2.25%
 

Palum

what Suineg set it to
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Scum is about to get worse. Smaller banks and credit unions are allowing people to refi from 30 to 40 year mortgages. All the major players have their eyes on this. People will end up trading any form of equity for lower monthly payments so they can buy more house or more toys. 100% of these people will be surprised come house sale time when they see their take of appreciation getting eaten by that fat 40 year mortgage.

And then come retirement time they will be equally surprised when they can't stop working when they want because they can't use appreciation to downsize to a smaller but paid for house because their 40 year mortgage, chain of heloc's, and $80k SUV's for some reason nullified their ability to save and have assets.

This is all by design. Sane credit policies don't drive economic growth; a legion of people permanently in debt drives "economic growth".

I've said it before, and I'll say it again; we are entering the period of time when people will work their entire lives and will have nothing to show for it.

View attachment 501151
With life expectancy where it is I think we should consider 50 year govt backed mortgages. It's really the sweet spot in affordability for the youth of today!
 
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Fucker

Log Wizard
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It's financial darwinism. The weak will be carrying those 40-yrs and the strong will be those who grabbed a refi at 2.25%
The problem will be when those 40 year notes become commonplace in order to get people into houses. When that happens, many people will trade equity for affordability. 70% of all home loans are 30 year, and it is easy to see that people will rationalize getting a 40 "to pay it down later", while others will use it to get more house than they need, or the aforementioned people who need it to get into a house at all. In all of these cases, trading up or down will be off the table because there will be no equity to use to that effect.
 

Palum

what Suineg set it to
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The problem will be when those 40 year notes become commonplace in order to get people into houses. When that happens, many people will trade equity for affordability. 70% of all home loans are 30 year, and it is easy to see that people will rationalize getting a 40 "to pay it down later", while others will use it to get more house than they need, or the aforementioned people who need it to get into a house at all. In all of these cases, trading up or down will be off the table because there will be no equity to use to that effect.

0% down 40 yr mortgage yeeeeeeehawwww get them some Murican Dream for the immigrants
 

Gravel

Mr. Poopybutthole
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With life expectancy where it is I think we should consider 50 year govt backed mortgages. It's really the sweet spot in affordability for the youth of today!
Wouldn't even surprise me.

I remember when auto loans topped out at 60 months and I figured surely they'd never go higher. And sure enough there are now 84 month ones. Fucking 7 years. That's the average time people own a home now.

So yeah, I expect 40 year mortgages will start becoming a thing as people can't afford 30 anymore, and eventually 50. By the time we're all dead house payments will be lifetime, or maybe even multi-generational.
 
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Palum

what Suineg set it to
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Wouldn't even surprise me.

I remember when auto loans topped out at 60 months and I figured surely they'd never go higher. And sure enough there are now 84 month ones. Fucking 7 years. That's the average time people own a home now.

So yeah, I expect 40 year mortgages will start becoming a thing as people can't afford 30 anymore, and eventually 50. By the time we're all dead house payments will be lifetime, or maybe even multi-generational.
You can get 96 month car loans now btw, save today!
 

Haus

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The problem will be when those 40 year notes become commonplace in order to get people into houses. When that happens, many people will trade equity for affordability. 70% of all home loans are 30 year, and it is easy to see that people will rationalize getting a 40 "to pay it down later", while others will use it to get more house than they need, or the aforementioned people who need it to get into a house at all. In all of these cases, trading up or down will be off the table because there will be no equity to use to that effect.
Or people in their 50's and 60's will take out 30 year notes and figure "F them kids and inheriting anything" and go for the lowest payment fully intending the bank to own the house as soon as they die. Accelerating the path to banks owning all housing and "generational wealth" just being some words in a economics history book.
 

Captain Suave

Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.
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Fucking 7 years. That's the average time people own a home now.

This made me do a double take so I looked it up. You're right, the average length of home ownership in the US is about eight years. The median, though, is 13, which means there are a LOT of people doing high-turnover real estate and getting stealthily eaten up by agent fees and transaction costs. No wonder the housing market is so fucked up.
 

Jysin

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It’s getting to the point that this isn’t exclusive to houses and vehicles anymore. Everyone it trying to jump into the installment payment (buy now pay later) industry.

No this isn’t made up:
1700478010973.jpeg
 
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Palum

what Suineg set it to
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Or people in their 50's and 60's will take out 30 year notes and figure "F them kids and inheriting anything" and go for the lowest payment fully intending the bank to own the house as soon as they die. Accelerating the path to banks owning all housing and "generational wealth" just being some words in a economics history book.
I mean I dunno, I get what you're saying but there's an element in the post 06 market that makes me a bit sympathetic to that play. The best position to have when your house value goes tits up and you'd rather abandon the mortgage is $1. The best position to have to realize return on property value is $1. I realize that's not really true with certain mortgage terms and economic situations like slowly depressing values with skyrocketing interest rates causing the bank to foreclose and your monthly payment to go up anywhere for a shittier property.

I still think it's more a question of overall financial investment and literacy. I also think it's more of a symptom of rot in government stewardship and national culture (thanks boomers).