Interstellar (2014)
- Thread starter Fedor
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Mist
REEEEeyore
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Explanation for the trope! Not how it was possible.
It was just a joke anyway. Rhino going to great lengths to defend the science of the film (which is fine) when I really don't think the questions people have there are the big complaints. Mostly just nitpicks or perhaps misunderstandings.
Intrinsic
Person of Whiteness
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We were laughing about that during the movie. Poor guy got a passing mention of the fact he was isolated for 20 years, jumps right back in the thick of things, doesn't really complain once, goes to the planet and gets 86'd by a crazy Matt Damon. And has to sit there and listen to Damon complain about it before hand! "Hey man, fist bump, I know what you're going thro-- Oh, nevermind I'll just sit here. Damn white people."
And wondered if Casey Affleck being in it was a favor from Matt since Ben couldn't be there. Would have been great to see them back together. And by great I mean hilarious.
rhinohelix
Dental Dammer
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People snidely commenting on "plot holes" (or in this case "crappy science") when really its their own lack of observation/not getting it (again in this case, 20+ year old astronomy "common knowledge") is a particular b?te noire of mine.
This movie was great...and almost exactly like a Stephen Baxter book I read years ago. I'd be willing to bet it's the source for this.
Anyway, my take based on that: that wasn't a real black hole but something future humans made to get the information back to Cooper on how to manipulate gravity. Queue Einstein about why they couldn't directly just text the bitch the answer, or the fact that higher dimensional human thinking would be completely alien to us, and you have your plot that explains it all.
Anyway, my take based on that: that wasn't a real black hole but something future humans made to get the information back to Cooper on how to manipulate gravity. Queue Einstein about why they couldn't directly just text the bitch the answer, or the fact that higher dimensional human thinking would be completely alien to us, and you have your plot that explains it all.
Pasteton
Blackwing Lair Raider
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So how is the time paradox resolved in this case? In other words how were future humans able to create a place for cooper to get the info back to if future humans wouldn't have existed without cooper having been successful in doing this in the first place?
khorum
Murder Apologist
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There IS a model for an observable crossing into the event horizon of a black hole, btw---but it's actually about crossing into the event horizon of TWO black holes that are orbiting each other---which isn't what was happening in the movie, but the notion is pretty old.
The lagrange zone between two black holes that are orbiting each other would produce a region within their event horizons (or "apparent horizons" as hawking wants to call them now) where their gravity is neutralized between both.
Oddly enough, Hawking's admission that energy and information escape the singularity of a black hole's "apparent horizon" came about from a story on what happens if an astronaut crossed into the event horizon of a black hole---the so-called firewall paradox---and how energy and information escape the singularity like in the movie.
The lagrange zone between two black holes that are orbiting each other would produce a region within their event horizons (or "apparent horizons" as hawking wants to call them now) where their gravity is neutralized between both.
Oddly enough, Hawking's admission that energy and information escape the singularity of a black hole's "apparent horizon" came about from a story on what happens if an astronaut crossed into the event horizon of a black hole---the so-called firewall paradox---and how energy and information escape the singularity like in the movie.
Mist
REEEEeyore
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The branch of humanity resulting from the Plan B seeds (There was no Plan A) would have been the ones to build the place inside the black hole.
Which then enables Plan A to be successful.
rhinohelix
Dental Dammer
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There is no paradox. Period, full stop. There is only a paradox if you think about time as single-track linear line of causality from the 3-D perspective. What the movie postulates is that 5th dimensional beings exist; as a result, whenever they come into existence in a single-world deterministic universe (as opposed to those where the characters can jump from timeline to timeline, or those where they can change the future by disrupting the past), they always exist in all times. If that sounds crazy, think about trying to describe "up" and "down" to a 2-dimensional being: All they could ever understand of a 3D object would be the thin slice passing through the 2D plane.
"But how did they survive to make the move?" is a moot question: When you start to break out of our normal dimensional space, causality as we know breaks down: You can have future beings impact past events, although from our perspective they would have always been part of the natural timeline. Hence, the 48 year old wormhole and the coordinates to NASA. In fact, its the realization that he sent himself to NASA to causes Cooper to speculate that the Bulk beings who built the Tesseract are in fact many-thousands of years-advanced humans.
"But how did they survive to make the move?" is a moot question: When you start to break out of our normal dimensional space, causality as we know breaks down: You can have future beings impact past events, although from our perspective they would have always been part of the natural timeline. Hence, the 48 year old wormhole and the coordinates to NASA. In fact, its the realization that he sent himself to NASA to causes Cooper to speculate that the Bulk beings who built the Tesseract are in fact many-thousands of years-advanced humans.
Faltigoth
Bronze Knight of the Realm
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Interestingly enough, I believe this is how St. Thomas Aquinas described how God exists; in all times simultaneously. Not really germane to the topic at hand, but there you have it.
Not replying to say I disagree with this post, just to make an observation:
The only reason there's a perceived paradox is because we, in how we interpret the world, can't reconcile the fact that, to our minds, "somehow it happened originally in order to happen again." For instance, how those thousands-of-years advanced humans survived in the first place, in order to place the wormhole and the Tesseract, so that humanity could survive, and so on. It's just not something we're built and/or educated to process at this juncture. In a way, our education of time (that's it's one-way linear) is what keeps us from really grasping at the heart of what is a bootstrap paradox. We "must" know the point of origin for it, but there isn't one, because we don't perceive time as anything other than "2D".
khorum
Murder Apologist
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Causality is how we explain events that are consistent with how we experience time: linearly; every moment is an effect of a cause that preceded it in time. But events that do NOT have a clear causal link in the past we call RANDOM.... Just as 2D fish would experience raindrops from above as random, inexplicable disruptions in their spacetime, we would experience retrocausality as random, inexplicable knots in our linear timeline.
There's been somerecent experiments in retrocausality that's pretty spooky.
There's been somerecent experiments in retrocausality that's pretty spooky.
ShakyJake
<Donor>
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They're just making shit up.my instincts tell me everything you guys are saying is bullshit about future humans being outside causality but i am not smart enough to debate the point
I will say they are puttingwaymore thought into it than the writers ever did.