Investing General Discussion

  • Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!



    Go here and give us your nominations!
    Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Foler

The_Black_Log Foler

PalsCo CEO - Stock Pals | Pantheon Pals
<Gold Donor>
47,660
42,902
Ah I see. Funds like EICOX require a minimum investment so unless you’re super wealthy then they’re gatekept by financial advisor firms(?)

Trying to find the boglehead equivalent to EICOX as I’m curious what the performance difference is. Looking at VWO but need to dive deeper on this.

curious to hear our more seasoned investors commentary on these funds with minimum investments and the roll they play. I imagine they’ll echo similar sentiments to this bogleheads thread but always curious to hear the local voice

Why the disdain for managed funds like ARKK that destroy total market funds? - Bogleheads.org

www.bogleheads.org
 
C

Captain Suave

Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.
5,256
8,953
Foler said:
Their ER is 75 basis points. Newb question but who is the target demographic for these funds that have such high ER? People who think the ER is moot when tallied to the funds potential returns?
Click to expand...

People who don't pay attention, blindly take advice from advisors not fully performing fiduciary duties, or who are stuck in 401k's, etc, with fund choices set up by assholes. Essentially every study says normal investors achieve the best returns by choosing standard index funds with the lowest expenses you can find. This is why Vanguard is so popular.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user
Foler

The_Black_Log Foler

PalsCo CEO - Stock Pals | Pantheon Pals
<Gold Donor>
47,660
42,902
Captain Suave said:
People who don't pay attention, blindly take advice from advisors not fully performing fiduciary duties, or who are stuck in 401k's, etc, with fund choices set up by assholes.
Click to expand...
Yeah I can see that. Maybe I’m having a hard time stomaching that as a blanket reality? Looking for something maybe a little bit more analytical. Like does it all just come down to a bunch of people being scammed into high ER managed funds? Is there at least some belief by consumers that these funds have an edge over low ER indexes that isn’t just blindly following some financial advisor etc.

Some of these funds have killed it but as I have learned past doesn’t predict future etc so I’m not sure how relevant “killing it” is as a performance metric?
 
Foler

The_Black_Log Foler

PalsCo CEO - Stock Pals | Pantheon Pals
<Gold Donor>
47,660
42,902
Doing more research. Why the fuck am I invested in arkk. This lady is nuts
 
  • 1Worf
Reactions: 1 user
C

Captain Suave

Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.
5,256
8,953
Foler said:
Is there at least some belief by consumers that these funds have an edge over low ER indexes
Click to expand...

Some people will believe anything. They're wrong, though.

Returns scale negatively with expenses for mutual funds.

1703724019788.png


And perhaps positively (this may not be a statistically significant trend) but still not enough to make up costs for ETFs.
1703724059378.png


Foler said:
that isn’t just blindly following some financial advisor etc.
Click to expand...

Most people don't invest at all. Most of those who do couldn't compute a rate of return with a gun to their head and just take someone's advice because that's less scary than figuring it out on their own. It's a financial/math education problem.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user
Foler

The_Black_Log Foler

PalsCo CEO - Stock Pals | Pantheon Pals
<Gold Donor>
47,660
42,902
Captain Suave said:
Some people will believe anything. They're wrong, though.

Returns scale negatively with expenses for mutual funds.

View attachment 506073

And perhaps positively (this may not be a statistically significant trend) but still not enough to make up costs for ETFs.
View attachment 506074



Most people don't invest at all. Most of those who do couldn't compute a rate of return with a gun to their head and just take someone's advice because that's less scary than figuring it out on their own. It's a financial/math education problem.
Click to expand...
You guys are starting to make me get that feeling I got when I first realized the government lies to me..
 
Foler

The_Black_Log Foler

PalsCo CEO - Stock Pals | Pantheon Pals
<Gold Donor>
47,660
42,902
Captain Suave said:
Some people will believe anything. They're wrong, though.

Returns scale negatively with expenses for mutual funds.

View attachment 506073

And perhaps positively (this may not be a statistically significant trend) but still not enough to make up costs for ETFs.
View attachment 506074



Most people don't invest at all. Most of those who do couldn't compute a rate of return with a gun to their head and just take someone's advice because that's less scary than figuring it out on their own. It's a financial/math education problem.
Click to expand...
Qq on ETFs ER. What about lower ER ETFs like IXUS? I guess QQQM isn’t considered super low at .15. Maybe I’m misunderstanding what you’re saying about ETFs
 
Sanrith Descartes

Sanrith Descartes

You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
<Aristocrat╭ರ_•́>
44,527
120,760
Foler said:
Going through my advisor managed portfolio. Looks like they have me in arkk. Their ER is 75 basis points. Newb question but who is the target demographic for these funds that have such high ER? People who think the ER is moot when tallied to the funds potential returns?
Click to expand...
Go back and read through this thread. You will find some quality commentary on the various ARK funds and their wunderkind creator Kathie.
 
  • 2Worf
  • 1Like
Reactions: 2 users
Foler

The_Black_Log Foler

PalsCo CEO - Stock Pals | Pantheon Pals
<Gold Donor>
47,660
42,902
Sanrith Descartes said:
Go back and read through this thread. You will find some quality commentary on the various ARK funds and their wunderkind creator Kathie.
Click to expand...
Yup. I thought ARKK sounded familiar. Will search thread in morning for the goods..
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user
Sanrith Descartes

Sanrith Descartes

You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
<Aristocrat╭ರ_•́>
44,527
120,760
Foler said:
Yup. I thought ARKK sounded familiar. Will search thread in morning for the goods..
Click to expand...
Make sure to search for all the possibly spellings of Kathy. Some folks love to misspell her name on purpose to trigger a certain someone. :trollface:
 
  • 1Worf
Reactions: 1 user
Foler

The_Black_Log Foler

PalsCo CEO - Stock Pals | Pantheon Pals
<Gold Donor>
47,660
42,902
Blazin said:
A balanced index like Vanguard Balanced Index Fund (VBIAX) is only down a few percent on the year and has an expense ratio of 0.07% if you are paying extra for under performance might want to reconsider your choices.
Click to expand...
Going back and reading my posts from 2020... Not sure what happened between then and now. Wish I had gotten more involved back then. Yeah I took a shit kicking then. Probably these emerging market funds they have me in. Gonna jump on a call tomorrow and at least see why they think it’s better for me to be in high ER funds that have transaction fees versus low cost mutuals and ETFs.
 
Foler

The_Black_Log Foler

PalsCo CEO - Stock Pals | Pantheon Pals
<Gold Donor>
47,660
42,902
Pops said:
If you are paying 1% to sit in ETF's already charging a fee and use no ancillary service. I'd close it out.
Click to expand...
Yeah…
Blazin said:
Full service brokers are not worth the expense. You may like the guy, they may make you feel special for the privilege of being their client, but it is almost guaranteed you will end up worse off overtime than just putting your money with Vanguard or Fidelity in a ultra low cost index funds. If you don't want to worry about how you are diversified then you can either buy a balanced fund like the one I noted or you can go with a target retirement that will adjust automatically as you age.
Click to expand...
Yup. I was in grad school just spending money back in 2020 so I guess I never really followed through.. All my money was tied up in my AUM portfolio with zero job income.
Sanrith Descartes said:
Someone charging 1% to "advise" you to put your money in index ETFs is a scumbag. Welcome to WallStreet. As for lying. Well the whole point of lying is the person you are lying to doesn't know you are lying to them.
Click to expand...
Yeah. I realize this now. At this point what should my ask be if I want to keep a professional relationship for ancillary services? Maybe the idea of paying .05-.075% to park it in low ER ETF/MFs?. Yes I know it’s not ideal but it’s better than having them park it at high ER funds and I don’t want to cut ties right now/immediately. I want to gain a little bit more knowledge before I take over my AUM portfolio as it’s much much larger than this personal portfolio I’ve been making since November.
Pops said:
IEMG, PPTY, VGK, VIDI

Just glancing at your list. These have done jack shit for years. Hopefully you have tech ETF's.
Click to expand...
Oh don’t worry. They ended up putting me in ARKK positions from jul 20-2022 till end of year 2022. 🙄Those positions are up 30% so maybe I can’t complain.

Well my world is crashing a little. Not the end of the world and better to learn now.. For now I’d like to just get my AUM with longer ER funds versus completely severe ties. I also will be investing all my future income in my self managed portfolio.
 
TJT

TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
<Gold Donor>
42,722
109,024
Captain Suave said:
Some people will believe anything. They're wrong, though.

Returns scale negatively with expenses for mutual funds.

View attachment 506073

And perhaps positively (this may not be a statistically significant trend) but still not enough to make up costs for ETFs.
View attachment 506074



Most people don't invest at all. Most of those who do couldn't compute a rate of return with a gun to their head and just take someone's advice because that's less scary than figuring it out on their own. It's a financial/math education problem.
Click to expand...

I parked a large amount of cash into FZROX a few years ago and have had quite good returns.

FZROX - Fidelity ZERO ® Total Market Index Fund | Fidelity Investments

Analyze the Fund Fidelity ZERO ® Total Market Index Fund having Symbol FZROX for type mutual-funds and perform research on other mutual funds. Learn more about mutual funds at fidelity.com.
fundresearch.fidelity.com

0% Expense funds do exist just saying.
 
  • 1Solidarity
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 users
Foler

The_Black_Log Foler

PalsCo CEO - Stock Pals | Pantheon Pals
<Gold Donor>
47,660
42,902
TJT said:
I parked a large amount of cash into FZROX a few years ago and have had quite good returns.

FZROX - Fidelity ZERO ® Total Market Index Fund | Fidelity Investments

Analyze the Fund Fidelity ZERO ® Total Market Index Fund having Symbol FZROX for type mutual-funds and perform research on other mutual funds. Learn more about mutual funds at fidelity.com.
fundresearch.fidelity.com

0% Expense funds do exist just saying.
Click to expand...
Yeah. I was bringing them up earlier and asking if it’s worth utilizing brokeragelink in my 401k to buy the zero expense fidelity funds versus the vanguard ones offered straight from employer and everyone recommended just get vanguard ones. I think maybe the ER was so small it was maybe moot.

I like those as a product for a non-taxable accounts are great because the only real limitation of having to stay on their brokerage is negated by not having to pay tax if you have to move/sell.

I did add more fxaix yesterday and this morning. I went against advice here and added a very small position of fsmax this morning. Maybe I’m a bit impulsive but it will remain below 6-8% of portfolio for the moment.

Need to break out basket holdings today or tomorrow and evaluate where I am.
 
TJT

TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
<Gold Donor>
42,722
109,024
Foler said:
Yeah. I was bringing them up earlier and asking if it’s worth utilizing brokeragelink in my 401k to buy the zero expense fidelity funds versus the vanguard ones offered straight from employer and everyone recommended just get vanguard ones. I think maybe the ER was so small it was maybe moot.

I like those as a product for a non-taxable accounts are great because the only real limitation of having to stay on their brokerage is negated by not having to pay tax if you have to move/sell.

I did add more fxaix yesterday and this morning. I went against advice here and added a very small position of fsmax this morning. Maybe I’m a bit impulsive but it will remain below 6-8% of portfolio for the moment.

Need to break out basket holdings today or tomorrow and evaluate where I am.
Click to expand...
Dunno, the index funds offered by most 401ks are similar enough. But once you max out your tax advantaged accounts you just go into the normal taxable one. I fuck around with individual stocks often enough but the overwhelming majority of my money is in index funds like any sensical person who doesn't make a job or hobby of it.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user
Foler

The_Black_Log Foler

PalsCo CEO - Stock Pals | Pantheon Pals
<Gold Donor>
47,660
42,902
TJT said:
Dunno, the index funds offered by most 401ks are similar enough. But once you max out your tax advantaged accounts you just go into the normal taxable one. I fuck around with individual stocks often enough but the overwhelming majority of my money is in index funds like any sensical person who doesn't make a job or hobby of it.
Click to expand...
So you keep the fidelity zero fees in your taxable accounts?
 
TJT

TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
<Gold Donor>
42,722
109,024
Foler said:
So you keep the fidelity zero fees in your taxable accounts?
Click to expand...
Yes, I don't understand what question or point you are trying to get at. Every 401k I have ever participated in offers the typical ETF funds. Be they Vanguard, Fidelity, or some other one. They are similar enough and I never found a reason to move things around in them. As I max out my 401k, HSA, and IRA every year. So additional funds to be invested have to go into something else.

Which just ends up as m ore ETFs as I don't day trade or anything like that. At the time I bought FZROX it was very fresh and under $10, and I had ~$25k cash to put into something.
 
Foler

The_Black_Log Foler

PalsCo CEO - Stock Pals | Pantheon Pals
<Gold Donor>
47,660
42,902
TJT said:
Yes, I don't understand what question or point you are trying to get at. Every 401k I have ever participated in offers the typical ETF funds. Be they Vanguard, Fidelity, or some other one. They are similar enough and I never found a reason to move things around in them. As I max out my 401k, HSA, and IRA every year. So additional funds to be invested have to go into something else.

Which just ends up as m ore ETFs as I don't day trade or anything like that. At the time I bought FZROX it was very fresh and under $10, and I had ~$25k cash to put into something.
Click to expand...
Not getting at any point. Just asking questions. I guess I was curious because from my research most people say use zero index in tax advantaged accounts so you don’t get hit by capital gains if you have to move brokers. The disadvantage being if you ever wanted to leave fidelity in your taxable account, those funds have to go.

Just asking questions, observing and trying to understand why people make the decisions they do since there seems to be a wealth of knowledge here. Not trying to make any points or anything.
 
Sanrith Descartes

Sanrith Descartes

You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
<Aristocrat╭ರ_•́>
44,527
120,760
Foler said:
Probably these emerging market funds they have me in.
Click to expand...
It gets even better when those emerging market funds are loaded with bonds denominated in US Dollars. They have to buy dollars with their shitty local currency to pay the notes each month. Now go look at what the dollar did over the last couple of years. EM funds are shit and people who put unsuspecting investors into them are scumbags who deserve to be sent to a gulag.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user
You must log in or register to reply here.