Investing General Discussion
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
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Today's CAPE accurately predicts the next 12 years of return. And it's now negative. From Hussman's fund report.
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So, what do you guys put your money in once you've maxed out all the regular stuff (i401k, HSA, backdoor Roth)? I've been looking at a handful of things:
1. Fractional ownership of coffee and/or cacao farms in Panama/Belize - About $15,000-$20,000 per half acre, one time fee, then they farm it for you. Estimating around 10-11% return per year. Feels like a sucker thing, it's only been in business for a few years, and it takes 2-3 years to get your first return because they literally plant the trees and it takes a while for them to start producing. To me, there is way too many unknowns and I'm not going to look further.
2. Fundrise - crowd funding real estate deals, seems to be nice returns, and most people seem happy investing here. However the returns are basically 1099 income so it will be taxed heavily which basically reduces the return by 39%.
3. Crowdstreet - another form of crowd funding, but requires large investments, I think $20,000 was the lowest entry point I saw. My problem with these types of things is that it's hard for me to accept taking $20,000 out of my account and putting it somewhere else.
4. Residential real estate rentals - There's a smaller / cruddier apartment complex here in town selling some units for $65,000-$75,000, could buy those in cash in a self directed IRA, and just let things go from there. There's a 7 unit apartment complex for sale for like $650,000 in my town but that's a huge gamble to take for me.
5. WithCadence.io - these seem to be high yielding short term investments. To be honest, I don't quite understand them, it seems to be 2 month or 1 year investments with 10-12% annual return, but honestly I can't tell if it's only like 2 months of returns then its done so really like 2% return? What do yall think of this? (see below)
Anyway, just curious where you're parking your money. I really want to invest in things that will just pay me forever
1. Fractional ownership of coffee and/or cacao farms in Panama/Belize - About $15,000-$20,000 per half acre, one time fee, then they farm it for you. Estimating around 10-11% return per year. Feels like a sucker thing, it's only been in business for a few years, and it takes 2-3 years to get your first return because they literally plant the trees and it takes a while for them to start producing. To me, there is way too many unknowns and I'm not going to look further.
2. Fundrise - crowd funding real estate deals, seems to be nice returns, and most people seem happy investing here. However the returns are basically 1099 income so it will be taxed heavily which basically reduces the return by 39%.
3. Crowdstreet - another form of crowd funding, but requires large investments, I think $20,000 was the lowest entry point I saw. My problem with these types of things is that it's hard for me to accept taking $20,000 out of my account and putting it somewhere else.
4. Residential real estate rentals - There's a smaller / cruddier apartment complex here in town selling some units for $65,000-$75,000, could buy those in cash in a self directed IRA, and just let things go from there. There's a 7 unit apartment complex for sale for like $650,000 in my town but that's a huge gamble to take for me.
5. WithCadence.io - these seem to be high yielding short term investments. To be honest, I don't quite understand them, it seems to be 2 month or 1 year investments with 10-12% annual return, but honestly I can't tell if it's only like 2 months of returns then its done so really like 2% return? What do yall think of this? (see below)
Anyway, just curious where you're parking your money. I really want to invest in things that will just pay me forever
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Big Phoenix
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
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Uh no way in hell I would be getting involved in microloans in Colombia. Why in gods name wouldnt you just play stocks at that point?So, what do you guys put your money in once you've maxed out all the regular stuff (i401k, HSA, backdoor Roth)? I've been looking at a handful of things:
1. Fractional ownership of coffee and/or cacao farms in Panama/Belize - About $15,000-$20,000 per half acre, one time fee, then they farm it for you. Estimating around 10-11% return per year. Feels like a sucker thing, it's only been in business for a few years, and it takes 2-3 years to get your first return because they literally plant the trees and it takes a while for them to start producing. To me, there is way too many unknowns and I'm not going to look further.
2. Fundrise - crowd funding real estate deals, seems to be nice returns, and most people seem happy investing here. However the returns are basically 1099 income so it will be taxed heavily which basically reduces the return by 39%.
3. Crowdstreet - another form of crowd funding, but requires large investments, I think $20,000 was the lowest entry point I saw. My problem with these types of things is that it's hard for me to accept taking $20,000 out of my account and putting it somewhere else.
4. Residential real estate rentals - There's a smaller / cruddier apartment complex here in town selling some units for $65,000-$75,000, could buy those in cash in a self directed IRA, and just let things go from there. There's a 7 unit apartment complex for sale for like $650,000 in my town but that's a huge gamble to take for me.
5. WithCadence.io - these seem to be high yielding short term investments. To be honest, I don't quite understand them, it seems to be 2 month or 1 year investments with 10-12% annual return, but honestly I can't tell if it's only like 2 months of returns then its done so really like 2% return? What do yall think of this? (see below)
Anyway, just curious where you're parking your money. I really want to invest in things that will just pay me forever
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LachiusTZ
Rogue Deathwalker Box
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So, what do you guys put your money in once you've maxed out all the regular stuff (i401k, HSA, backdoor Roth)? I've been looking at a handful of things:
1. Fractional ownership of coffee and/or cacao farms in Panama/Belize - About $15,000-$20,000 per half acre, one time fee, then they farm it for you. Estimating around 10-11% return per year. Feels like a sucker thing, it's only been in business for a few years, and it takes 2-3 years to get your first return because they literally plant the trees and it takes a while for them to start producing. To me, there is way too many unknowns and I'm not going to look further.
2. Fundrise - crowd funding real estate deals, seems to be nice returns, and most people seem happy investing here. However the returns are basically 1099 income so it will be taxed heavily which basically reduces the return by 39%.
3. Crowdstreet - another form of crowd funding, but requires large investments, I think $20,000 was the lowest entry point I saw. My problem with these types of things is that it's hard for me to accept taking $20,000 out of my account and putting it somewhere else.
4. Residential real estate rentals - There's a smaller / cruddier apartment complex here in town selling some units for $65,000-$75,000, could buy those in cash in a self directed IRA, and just let things go from there. There's a 7 unit apartment complex for sale for like $650,000 in my town but that's a huge gamble to take for me.
5. WithCadence.io - these seem to be high yielding short term investments. To be honest, I don't quite understand them, it seems to be 2 month or 1 year investments with 10-12% annual return, but honestly I can't tell if it's only like 2 months of returns then its done so really like 2% return? What do yall think of this? (see below)
Anyway, just curious where you're parking your money. I really want to invest in things that will just pay me forever
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Single residence starter homes built in the early 90s on large lots firmly in middle class.
Is what I would do if I had your problem
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Thanks to finally being debt free and w/ the house/farm paid off , my goal is now to just work enough to max tax advantaged investments.
So 401k to yearly max (19k, I guess it will go up slightly each year)
HSA
RothIRA (wtf is a backdoor roth edit: ok so its something needed only if you make a ton of money and are not eligible for a rothIRA, not my problem.).
I CAN do a 401k and a roth in the same year right?
What about the company stock purchase plan? You can have them keep 1 to 10 percent of your check, which they hold for six months and then buy company stock at a 15 percent discount at that time. Is this a wise thing to do if the above things are going to be maxed?
Anything I'm missing beyond the above? Or is that the end of the line for the tax advantaged investment options? After that I suppose I can just do a normal investment account, or choose to not work extra.
So 401k to yearly max (19k, I guess it will go up slightly each year)
HSA
RothIRA (wtf is a backdoor roth edit: ok so its something needed only if you make a ton of money and are not eligible for a rothIRA, not my problem.).
I CAN do a 401k and a roth in the same year right?
What about the company stock purchase plan? You can have them keep 1 to 10 percent of your check, which they hold for six months and then buy company stock at a 15 percent discount at that time. Is this a wise thing to do if the above things are going to be maxed?
Anything I'm missing beyond the above? Or is that the end of the line for the tax advantaged investment options? After that I suppose I can just do a normal investment account, or choose to not work extra.
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Gravel
Mr. Poopybutthole
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Yes, you can max both an IRA (Roth or Traditional) and 401k in a single year.
Company stock is okay. Some say it's putting too many eggs into one basket (e.g. if you lose your job because your company sucks, your stock probably plummets too). Assuming that doesn't happen though, you're getting it at a discount which is kind of a roundabout way of getting a match.
Company stock is okay. Some say it's putting too many eggs into one basket (e.g. if you lose your job because your company sucks, your stock probably plummets too). Assuming that doesn't happen though, you're getting it at a discount which is kind of a roundabout way of getting a match.
Its free money, there's no reason to not do as much as you can as long as you don't need the money right away which it sounds like you don't. I've sold a lot of mine almost immediately after the actual stock purchase due to not wanting to have too many eggs in one basket (and regretted it due to continued outperformance of the market, but hindsight is 20/20 and I still think it was the right move...) When you do that you have to pay the taxes but you're still probably in the plus vs. if you had taken the money immediately and used it on something else. Guaranteed 10-15% gains in a 3 month or shorter span.
Ask them to withhold the 10% max. Then after the stock is purchased, you can either hold, or sell and invest elsewhere.
Just make sure there's no mandatory minimum holding period. My company for example, makes you hold the shares for 1 year after you buy them.
Fogel
Mr. Poopybutthole
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So, what do you guys put your money in once you've maxed out all the regular stuff (i401k, HSA, backdoor Roth)? I've been looking at a handful of things:
1. Fractional ownership of coffee and/or cacao farms in Panama/Belize - About $15,000-$20,000 per half acre, one time fee, then they farm it for you. Estimating around 10-11% return per year. Feels like a sucker thing, it's only been in business for a few years, and it takes 2-3 years to get your first return because they literally plant the trees and it takes a while for them to start producing. To me, there is way too many unknowns and I'm not going to look further.
2. Fundrise - crowd funding real estate deals, seems to be nice returns, and most people seem happy investing here. However the returns are basically 1099 income so it will be taxed heavily which basically reduces the return by 39%.
3. Crowdstreet - another form of crowd funding, but requires large investments, I think $20,000 was the lowest entry point I saw. My problem with these types of things is that it's hard for me to accept taking $20,000 out of my account and putting it somewhere else.
4. Residential real estate rentals - There's a smaller / cruddier apartment complex here in town selling some units for $65,000-$75,000, could buy those in cash in a self directed IRA, and just let things go from there. There's a 7 unit apartment complex for sale for like $650,000 in my town but that's a huge gamble to take for me.
5. WithCadence.io - these seem to be high yielding short term investments. To be honest, I don't quite understand them, it seems to be 2 month or 1 year investments with 10-12% annual return, but honestly I can't tell if it's only like 2 months of returns then its done so really like 2% return? What do yall think of this? (see below)
Anyway, just curious where you're parking your money. I really want to invest in things that will just pay me forever
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If this is an investment that you dont need right away, why not just stuff it into an index fund?
Cad
scientia potentia est
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This is what I do. I make too much to do any of the Roth or tIRA nonsense, but do your tax advantaged accounts and then just start floating your brokerage. You’ll pay long term capital gains on it someday but honestly you can just start piling that shit in there and worry about that later. Managing real estate is a full time job, if you buy houses and hire a management company they suck down all your margins and you’re just betting on appreciation. Might as well just buy index funds.
Live below your means and sock away your money and you will be fuck-you independently wealthy within a reasonable time, depending on your lifestyle.
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Denamian
Night Janitor
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So it's about time (actually long overdue) that I start socking away money for retirement. The plan had always been work until I'm dead, but being able to retire would be a nice option someday.
The job offers nothing retirement wise and I'm pretty fucking clueless about all this so I'm not really sure where to begin. It has been suggested that I look into starting up a Roth IRA. I'm looking for something pretty simple and idiot proof and I'd be starting with pocket change compared to the number you guys are tossing around.
Other than my bank (a smallish regional bank) I have no ties to any financial institutions. Are companies like Wealthfront and Betterment actually any good or should I look elsewhere?
The job offers nothing retirement wise and I'm pretty fucking clueless about all this so I'm not really sure where to begin. It has been suggested that I look into starting up a Roth IRA. I'm looking for something pretty simple and idiot proof and I'd be starting with pocket change compared to the number you guys are tossing around.
Other than my bank (a smallish regional bank) I have no ties to any financial institutions. Are companies like Wealthfront and Betterment actually any good or should I look elsewhere?
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Open an account with Fidelity... They are amazing. You can open up any retirement vehicle you want there (a Roth IRA, a HSA if you qualify, and you can host your 401k / IRA there if you don't have one through work.)
With Fidelity, you can open a "cash management account" which is basically a checking account, and you can have a brokerage account too to just invest after-tax dollars into whatever you want. It's all beautiful arranged and easy to do. The really great thing is that basically you can set it up so that your "checking account" is in a money market account, so you can get > 2% interest in your checking account.
To learn about retirement funds, etc, goto bogleheads.org ... That's all you need. You can literally buy one fund (like a target retirement fund, like for example FFFHX - Fidelity Freedom ® 2050 Fund | Fidelity Investments ), and you could put all your money in there, and do better that 90% of all people that invest in the stock market, etc.
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Fogel
Mr. Poopybutthole
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Not sure what you consider pocket change, but IRA's have a yearly contribution limit of 5,500 a year, so once you put that much in it for the year you're done. If you have more money you want to invest at that point, you need to put it in a regular account, the only difference being is this account is subject to taxes. Once you have money in either account, you need to pick an actual "fund" to put it in. Many sites like Vanguard and Fidelity, which most of us use because they're easy to use and have crazy low fees, have target retirement funds that will automatically allocate between bonds/stocks based on your retirement year. Or you could just pick a regular index fund like S&P500, Dow Jones, etc.
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Denamian,
Here is a huge thread about using fidelity as a "one stop shop" for all financial things:
Here is a huge thread about using fidelity as a "one stop shop" for all financial things:
Fidelity as a one stop shop - Bogleheads.org
www.bogleheads.org
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Cad
scientia potentia est
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Yes, but tIRA contributions aren't tax advantaged over a certain income amount. You lose the deduction. Which completely defeats the point doesn't it?
Or, now that I'm thinking about it, Roth is post-tax anyway so if I lose the deduction I wouldn't care because I get the growth tax-free.
Hmm I guess I should do that. lol. Thanks
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