Investing General Discussion

The_Black_Log Foler

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Correct idea. One of the primary reasons people like to know why is so they can argue with the conclusion. If something is upsetting sentiment then whether I agree with that driver pushing sentiment is irrelevant. News Items do indeed push and pull on sentiment just like many other things, but day to day can be noise.

We also look at the Sentiment of non market participants way too much. The opinion of a non TSLA share holder on TSLA is of very little value. THey have their bearish reasons they don't hold the stock. It's why we don't need to address their concerns for things to change, they have already taken themselves out of the equation. It's why stocks can bottom on sentiment. The people who are so obviously and strongly bearish are no longer holders, their opinions now have little factor on price action. Now compare that to stock holders turning sour, that's a horse of a different hue.

Right now I would say the market participants who are most concerned about the Fed are not participants they are on the sidelines hoping something happens in their favor to reward them for their prudence.

I always get a chuckle from this, Blazin's red line of doom.
View attachment 527021

I drew that line over 10 years ago :) That seems impossible but the main channel of the secular trend sometimes has been a stopping point to the penny but most often its just a good guide post . I posted about it four years ago because we were leaving it going into 2021 and that made me cautious but we held on a back test so I held my nose and bought. Now in hindsight we can see the market did spend some time above the line but ultimately gave it all back.

Going into this year we have been in a similar situation so I've been open to the idea of the top line again becoming support rather than resistance. However as of right now we have failed to hold it on the back test.
View attachment 527024

For those interested in the history of these long term trend lines. They absolutely can change slope and historically they have near the end of the secular trend. "The blow off top" People use that term all the time where it doesn't apply but in long term bull markets this trend will at some point steepen and you can get a sequence of monster gains. See 96-99 for an example. The market had been a bull trend for 13 years but things accelerated the trend lines broke to the upside. Fear of missing out really peaks during those periods and people pile in. That period will be the give back period. That is the part of the bull run that will likely be given back in its entirety during the next bear phase. The "easy money" phase will be wiped out.

This is the same trend line that had me go a little heavy early in March 20 because I felt it would hold. It did but for those few days it was certainly crazy trip below the bottom of the channel.

The market hurts itself by increasing the slope. An increased slope makes the lower channel closer so it ends up taking just a short time (3-9months) of running sideways that then puts the trend in jeopardy and then a massive air gap ensues.

View attachment 527026

I love studying this stuff, look at how 1987 got punished for leaving the trend line and the correction went to exact point of the bottom of the channel. Then in 96 things start to change and 13year trend channel changed it's slope, and sure enough a decade later the market returned to that exact point. Very easy day to day to get lost in the weeds but when you look at large macro behavior things can really start to come into focus.

Probably boring to people stacking bills and earnings 3% a day but for us less capable I think this stuff is worth a look and helps to understand.
Sorry for the probably dumb question but is one takeaway from these posts that bears are potentially missing out right now and if so is there ever a definitive scenario where they “aren’t missing out”.
 

Tmac

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I always get a chuckle from this, Blazin's red line of doom.
View attachment 527021

I drew that line over 10 years ago :) That seems impossible but the main channel of the secular trend sometimes has been a stopping point to the penny but most often its just a good guide post . I posted about it four years ago because we were leaving it going into 2021 and that made me cautious but we held on a back test so I held my nose and bought. Now in hindsight we can see the market did spend some time above the line but ultimately gave it all back.

Going into this year we have been in a similar situation so I've been open to the idea of the top line again becoming support rather than resistance. However as of right now we have failed to hold it on the back test.
View attachment 527024

For those interested in the history of these long term trend lines. They absolutely can change slope and historically they have near the end of the secular trend. "The blow off top" People use that term all the time where it doesn't apply but in long term bull markets this trend will at some point steepen and you can get a sequence of monster gains. See 96-99 for an example. The market had been a bull trend for 13 years but things accelerated the trend lines broke to the upside. Fear of missing out really peaks during those periods and people pile in. That period will be the give back period. That is the part of the bull run that will likely be given back in its entirety during the next bear phase. The "easy money" phase will be wiped out.

This is the same trend line that had me go a little heavy early in March 20 because I felt it would hold. It did but for those few days it was certainly crazy trip below the bottom of the channel.

The market hurts itself by increasing the slope. An increased slope makes the lower channel closer so it ends up taking just a short time (3-9months) of running sideways that then puts the trend in jeopardy and then a massive air gap ensues.

View attachment 527026

I love studying this stuff, look at how 1987 got punished for leaving the trend line and the correction went to exact point of the bottom of the channel. Then in 96 things start to change and 13year trend channel changed it's slope, and sure enough a decade later the market returned to that exact point. Very easy day to day to get lost in the weeds but when you look at large macro behavior things can really start to come into focus.

Probably boring to people stacking bills and earnings 3% a day but for us less capable I think this stuff is worth a look and helps to understand.

I feel a bit foolish for having to even say this, but it seems like the SPX holds a great amount of wisdom in understanding where we’ve been and where we are from a macro perspective.

I’ve never really looked at it like a bellwether. But I’m interested in studying it more.
 

Borzak

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Wanna know how I know FED ops in D.C. don't go grocery shopping, drive cars, or buy plane tickets?
Sure they do. Cars provided to them at no expense to them, plane tickets provided, charge gas on a credit card they don't pay the bills on.
 

Sanrith Descartes

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This is the same trend line that had me go a little heavy early in March 20 because I felt it would hold. It did but for those few days it was certainly crazy trip below the bottom of the channel.
This bears pointing out. For new-ish investors not really involved during the Covid crash, its probably worth the time to go back and read this thread during those early months of Covid. We experienced a generational crash and monumental recovery in a relatively short span of time.
 
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Sanrith Descartes

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Anyone checked in PTON lately?

Girl Smile GIF
 

Sanrith Descartes

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It's not a 50billion dollar company any more?

I'm amazed the concrete mixing company NKLA still has close to a billion in market cap. Did their head physicist ever go back to making sidewalks?
NKLA market cap is still so high because they have more than 1b shares outstanding. That is a whole lotta bagholders.
 
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Blazin

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Kicking myself for only buying 300 shares of AAPL had another order in and was too greedy. Watching for an opportunity to add.
Screenshot 2024-05-02 165540.png
 
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Loser Araysar

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$110b stock repurchase. Fuck.

And remember that trough I mentioned it had been in for the last few months? I guess we know which way it finally broke out.

Sign of a dying company that's out of ideas. The only way they know how to prop up the stock price now is by burning cash in buybacks.

Ask yourself why would a company that has a revenue growth of almost 0 be increasing dividend payouts and embarking on a massive stock repurchase spree instead of investing in itself to jumpstart growth?

50% of total revenue comes from the 15th version of a 17 year old product.

Stock price spike will be shortlived, then it will go back to drowning.
 
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Blazin

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Sign of a dying company that's out of ideas. The only way they know how to prop up the stock price now is by burning cash in buybacks.

Ask yourself why would a company that has a revenue growth of almost 0 be increasing dividend payouts and embarking on a massive stock repurchase spree instead of investing in itself to jumpstart growth?

50% of total revenue comes from the 15th version of a 17 year old product.

Stock price spike will be shortlived, then it will go back to drowning.

 

Loser Araysar

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Pretty impressive High IQ take some really challenging questions that few would have thought of, this is cutting edge. Yeah ask yourself, Why!

Seems like some of you are very impressed with this $110B stock buyback

$110b stock repurchase. Fuck.

And remember that trough I mentioned it had been in for the last few months? I guess we know which way it finally broke out.

cat GIF


So I can see how some of you might consider these questions challenging
 

Loser Araysar

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His proclivities are less likely to get himself in trouble than others.

LMAO, you can't even bring yourself to say something nice.

You should go instead after terrible investors in this thread who advise gambling on earnings calls and get mesmerized with one time stock buybacks, instead of trying to go after me.
 

Blazin

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LMAO, you can't even bring yourself to say something nice.

You should go instead after terrible investors in this thread who advise gambling on earnings calls and get mesmerized with one time stock buybacks, instead of trying to go after me.
I edited my post right before you replied. I try to follow a rule for myself here not to be combative, and I usually just mean it tongue in cheek. I assure you I'm not going after you but to clarify for you I don't give two shits about the elements you listed. Seems a silly reason to buy a stock one way or the other. What if I'm right but the people who I want to sell to disagree? Being right doesn't mean shit outside of very long periods. Not sure if I have mentioned this before but sentiment is all. TSLA is up $40/share without addressing a single fundamental metric. I'm getting a little repetitive with this shit so I think I'll hold my peace. Unless you need something specifically from me.
 
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Tmac

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I edited my post right before you replied. I try to follow a rule for myself here not to be combative, and I usually just mean it tongue in cheek. I assure you I'm not going after you but to clarify for you I don't give two shits about the elements you listed. Seems a silly reason to buy a stock one way or the other. What if I'm right but the people who I want to sell to disagree? Being right doesn't mean shit outside of very long periods. Not sure if I have mentioned this before but sentiment is all. TSLA is up $40/share without addressing a single fundamental metric. I'm getting a little repetitive with this shit so I think I'll hold my peace. Unless you need something specifically from me.

The fundamentals are worth repeating imo.
 
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Zog

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Just as bad as google after earnings and we seen what happens after.

Moves like this if you're on the right side of these moves, would be stupid not to take profits. $100b of bagholding. Fomo is probably going to hurt a lot of people.

My theory from way back on this whole ai craze was companies burning cash to fomo on the ai train, Apple just took it a step further making the cash burning scene in the dark knight look like lunch money.

1000001130.jpg

Screenshot_20240503_111156_Webull.jpg
 
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Loser Araysar

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I edited my post right before you replied. I try to follow a rule for myself here not to be combative, and I usually just mean it tongue in cheek. I assure you I'm not going after you but to clarify for you I don't give two shits about the elements you listed. Seems a silly reason to buy a stock one way or the other.

I wasn't replying to you so why would you feel the need to say anything at all? Weird.

The rest of the post was extremely passive-aggressive. I can see why you went back and edited it.


What if I'm right but the people who I want to sell to disagree? Being right doesn't mean shit outside of very long periods. Not sure if I have mentioned this before but sentiment is all. TSLA is up $40/share without addressing a single fundamental metric. I'm getting a little repetitive with this shit so I think I'll hold my peace. Unless you need something specifically from me.

Why would I need anything from you? I never replied or addressed you in the first place.

Go in peace.
 

Sanrith Descartes

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Gonna risk triggering Blazin Blazin by linking ZH, but its actually a Real Investment Advice article that they reposted. This is well worth the 5-minute read and sort of dovetails with the current convo on sentiment.



tldr version:

"Importantly, focus on the rules and your investment discipline.

Do more of what is working and less of what isn’t.​
Remember that the “Trend Is My Friend.”​
Be either bullish or bearish, but not “hoggish.” (Hogs get slaughtered)​
Remember, it is “Okay” to pay taxes.​
Maximize profits by staging buys, working orders, and getting the best price.​
Look to buy damaged opportunities, not damaged investments.​
Diversify to control risk.​
Control risk by always having pre-determined sell levels and stop-losses.​
Do your homework.​
Not allow panic to influence buy/sell decisions.​
Remember that “cash” is for winners.​
Expect, but do not fear, corrections.​
Expect to be wrong, and will correct errors quickly.​
Check “hope” at the door.​
Be flexible.​
Have the patience to allow your discipline and strategy to work.​

Turn off the television, put down the newspaper, and focus on your analysis."
 
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