Is the MMO Market imploding?

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axeman_sl

shitlord
592
0
Curious if I'm the only one who doesn't need , nor really want , a provided backstory for my mmo play?

The intro cartoon to EQ was plenty good enough for me , scrolling movie text of SWG , or whatever.
Dump me the hell off in world , fine with whatever guiding quests for actual gameplay , but I don't need to be special snowflake number 43784 who's going to save the same world single handedly , that everyone else is going to single handedly save.

Game lore can made in depth without it focusing on me.
Yeah, I never pay attention to it anyway. I maintain that it isn't possible to tell a meaningful story to an audience where everybody has to be the main character but can see all the other identical heroes running around right in front of them. Stories are for single-player games where it can be all about you and where the designer has control over the pacing and timing of the storyline. MMORPGs are all about the gameplay, and while there can be atmospheric lore segments here and there, it should never be thrust in the player's face.

FFXIV is really bad about that, they absolutely hammer you over the head with the story every five seconds and have crammed the game with so many cutscenes and instanced dialogue that it's just intrusive and gets in the way of the gameplay. The story is still garbage and most of the cutscenes are completely pointless, the dialogue is contrived and artificial, and they haven't even bothered to do voices for 90% of it. It's one of those strange mismatches that the game is known for, like placing all the game's difficulty on AoE avoidance while also providing the worst server architecture in post-EQ MMORPG history. "Hey, let's utterly bloat the game with constant dialogue, much of which the player is forced to watch or at least click through, and then let's also put it only in writing and on stupid little cards at the bottom of the screen like we did fifteen years ago with the early installments of the genre!" Pants-on-head retarded, honestly.
 

Tol_sl

shitlord
759
0
FFXIV is really bad about that, they absolutely hammer you over the head with the story every five seconds and have crammed the game with so many cutscenes and instanced dialogue that it's just intrusive and gets in the way of the gameplay.
The worst offender was sometime in the early 20s. I remember having 1 hour queues and never being able to progress far enough in the main story without running into an instanced story segment that would require me to leave the queue. There was some optional dungeon I tried to do for like 6 hours and by the time I finally got in, I had outleveled it.
 

shabushabu

Molten Core Raider
1,409
185
Curious if I'm the only one who doesn't need , nor really want , a provided backstory for my mmo play?

The intro cartoon to EQ was plenty good enough for me , scrolling movie text of SWG , or whatever.
Dump me the hell off in world , fine with whatever guiding quests for actual gameplay , but I don't need to be special snowflake number 43784 who's going to save the same world single handedly , that everyone else is going to single handedly save.

Game lore can made in depth without it focusing on me.
Yes! I like the idea of loose ties to an overall story ... Like a war .. You wave to capitalize on the "crowd" movement nature of MMOs ... Faction alliance shifts based on actions players take...stuff like that... But I agree me being the hero was not so interesting... You could have some sort of achievement ladder system where the top X of players have some say/impact on overall world movement of factions.
 

Magog_sl

shitlord
13
0
I haven't really been following the MMO scene lately. Is there anything decent/good that came out relatively recently or that is coming out soon? Last MMO I played was SWTOR.
 

Mellent_sl

shitlord
180
0
I haven't really been following the MMO scene lately. Is there anything decent/good that came out relatively recently or that is coming out soon? Last MMO I played was SWTOR.
Well, FFXIV: ARR released recently. A lot of people like it although it had a bunch of server issues at launch, and many people feel like there isn't much of an endgame other than running a few dungeons over and over again (although I haven't played it myself so I'm not sure what there's really to do). The only MMOs I know of that are releasing in the next half year to a year are Wildstar, Elder Scrolls online, and EverQuest Next: Landmark. You'll have to look those up for yourself and decide if you like any of them.
 

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
2,389
283
Since TOR only the Final Fantasy re-release and Guild Wars 2 come to mind. Havent tried FF, but GW2 is worth the box price for sure and something to nicely pick back up now and then (no progression or raid content to speak of). It's the perfect in-between or "waiting for X" game. For those same reasons its not really a game to go hardcore on unless you enjoy achievement chasing, they do offer alot of that.
 

Miele

Lord Nagafen Raider
916
48
GW2 is a very nice game imo and the fact it has no raiding/progression (meaning inflating item levels over and over) is a nice plus in my book. Certainly it's very beatiful to see and definitely worth the box price for pretty much every MMO gamer out there.

EDIT: and yet again I sound like a shill. Sorry, I just like the game, can't help it, even with all its numerous shortcomings. It's probably because the human tits are well done.
 

Bruman

Golden Squire
1,154
0
GW2 is well worth the purchase price. I only got the 40s before I got bored, but it's a fun game with a great attention to detail. If you're looking for a MMO that's the next logical evolution of the WoW model, GW2 is it - no annoying quest text, running back to the quest giver, no kill/loot/node stealing, tons of crafting storage, a quick crafting system, great usability on the AH, easy to get around, etc.

For someone looking for an EQ-like experience, oh god, stay away. But it's great for in-between MMOs, especially with no subscription.
 

Tol_sl

shitlord
759
0
I know a lot of people love GW2, and thats cool. But I'll give a negative take on it just for the sake of letting the dude hear the bad and think about if it's something he wants to play.

I have a hard time telling anyone to play GW2. I just...couldn't find the fun. I felt like more than any MMO I've ever played, GW2 felt like a single player game. I ran around in a giant zerg of players for 40 levels, and just burned down whatever shitty event was happening. I felt like a locust in part of a giant DPS swam since no one had any role other than "spam attacks." You were always around dozens of players, but literally no one interacted with me, even when I made the effort to chat it up and be social (Because an event ends, a new one starts, and everyone moves off towards it like a giant braindead mass.). The only social aspect of it was basically idiots in general chat being idiots. It was like the barrens chat from wow on steroids.

PvP was basically everything I hated about MMO pvp: You have two giant zergs slamming against each other hours on end, and the same keep will flip back and forth every 12 hours when one group goes to sleep and the balance changes. This made things seem kind of lame to me, like everything was always in flux and pointless. You never really had the feeling of "territory control" like on SZ or whatever.. You can roll with a group of friends and do small raids on small objectives, but when you quit and wake up the next morning, chances are high it's been taken back.

Again, a lot of people love it, but even at the price of free, I never log in and play because absolutely nothing but the jumping puzzles were fun for me. At that point I started asking myself why I wasn't just playing a single player action rpg instead because they tend to be the better single player experience anyway.
 

Hekotat

FoH nuclear response team
12,325
12,034
Leveling during launch vs leveling now is night and damn day on those giant zerg events, most of the time you barely have enough people to do them which makes it much more satisfying when you complete it.

I didn't like the game at first either, I felt really let down especially after telling my friends how great it was going to be. I ended up quitting a few weeks after launch but then I came back with a different mindset for the game and I have loved it ever since. I've yet to play anything with such rewarding exploration, fascinating lore and beautiful world. It does have it's shortcomings but it's well worth the box price.
 

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
2,389
283
Tol your experience seems tainted by the rush to cap alongside hundreds of other players (as expected in MMOs). You only get that experience in a few select parts of the world now (wherever a new patch adds some stuff, or for specific meta events). Someone buying the game now would have a very different experience while leveling then you had. Like Bruman said, the no sub combined with little +gooder progression makes it a no-brainer to own and pick back up whenever you are looking for something to tide you over.
 

shabushabu

Molten Core Raider
1,409
185
Tol your experience seems tainted by the rush to cap alongside hundreds of other players (as expected in MMOs). You only get that experience in a few select parts of the world now (wherever a new patch adds some stuff, or for specific meta events). Someone buying the game now would have a very different experience while leveling then you had. Like Bruman said, the no sub combined with little +gooder progression makes it a no-brainer to own and pick back up whenever you are looking for something to tide you over.
Gw2 was spam spam fest and I quit by level 15. If you like the new flashy spammy MMOs it's a quality game but I hate the spam fest twitch crap. Of course most people dropped it pretty quick but have some friends that enjoyed the leveling ride.
 

Silence_sl

shitlord
2,459
4
Gw2 was spam spam fest and I quit by level 15. If you like the new flashy spammy MMOs it's a quality game but I hate the spam fest twitch crap. Of course most people dropped it pretty quick but have some friends that enjoyed the leveling ride.
Spam? Twitch crap? I'm not sure what GW2 you played, but it isn't the one I am playing. The only thing in this game that comes close is when an NPC telegraphs an ass-kicking to you and you have (eons) to double tap an evade.
 

Dahkoht_sl

shitlord
1,658
0
Nothing wrong with liking GW2 , I did for a month , but just as a heads up if you like actual class roles it's not going to be your of tea.

GW2 made me realize I'm very much a defined class role fan , and rather lean towards strict definitions of healer-tank-CC/support-dps roles.

Just wasn't very fun for me with their class system.
 

shabushabu

Molten Core Raider
1,409
185
Spam? Twitch crap? I'm not sure what GW2 you played, but it isn't the one I am playing. The only thing in this game that comes close is when an NPC telegraphs an ass-kicking to you and you have (eons) to double tap an evade.
Gw2 was spamming 2-3 buttons with little reason for thought at all....LoL u know like most action RPGs .
 

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
2,389
283
Well if you only played to 15 (which amounts to an hour or two) I guess that's your opinion, man. To each their own.

I find GW2 alot less spammy then EQ2/WoW/TOR. Love that they stepped away from having dozens of hotkeys for example. With 10 abilities max and most of them on cooldowns, it doesnt feel spammy to me.
 

Quaid

Trump's Staff
11,798
8,182
Gw2 was spamming 2-3 buttons with little reason for thought at all....LoL u know like most action RPGs .
I hate to tell you dude... But that sounds like you were pretty bad at GW2 to me. Don't get me wrong, the game is pretty bad IMO, but the combat I was engaging in is nothing like you described.
 

Miele

Lord Nagafen Raider
916
48
You quit by level 15, so you didn't actually play the game in any meaningful way nor you've seen any interesting and challenging content.
I know that every player on these boards is a superstar of MMOs and they can carry entire servers of bads to success by breathing on their keyboards while picking green gold from their noses and sipping cold vodka from a straw, but let's face reality, GW2 is actually challenging in certain places (not the whole game).

In Orr trash mobs will own you quickly if you overextend, veterans are a pain and champions mean death more often than not. This is reflected in many places all over the world: you can build, trait and gear appropriately in order to survive better, but you'll kill slower and this has drawbacks, as exemplified by most of the PvE dungeons.

It's true enough that there is little group interaction due to a lack of specific roles, which I miss dearly, but a coordinated group and a crappy group are miles apart and there is no denying about it, even if it's just boon management and debuff management. We're talking about doing a dungeon wing in 10-15 minutes vs not finishing it at all.

If there is one reason why I praise GW2 is their will to change the paradigm: interactive downed state instead of instant death, special class mechanics/abilities, weapons changing the hotbars, few hotkeys to manage with some thought behind their use (not true for all class/weapon combination sadly, some are done way better than others), self healing and no classes is kinda new and it's at least an experiment.
I add to that a beautiful world and a fuckton of places to discover (underwater tunnels leading to hidden caves, jumping puzzles, etc.) and interesting dungeons.

What I don't like? Lot of things: no healers/tanks, defiant/unshakable on bosses, currency purchased loot instead of dropped loot (on predictable loot tables in dungeons), some skills/traits/weapons being quite shitty for some classes, some classes being way too squishy, PvE dungeon content being berserker material only with a competent group or a pain in the ass with bad pugs and so on and so forth. There are no instanced raids and the open world ones are just zerg material. Loot progression is fundamentally unexistant, from the usual "raid for gear player" point of view.

There are also a load of little things class by class that imo should be reviewed in a timely manner, for example necros not having a cleaving melee weapon, but the list would get too long to be written here.

Its biggest shortcoming is certainly the lack of defined roles from my point of view, then the total lack of dungeon-dropped loot, then everything else I listed above.

This being said, I also can say that it's beatiful to see, animations are top notch, sync animation/effect is pretty much perfect, there is a good feeling when going melee and delivering big blows (for example the "oooomph" factor of the hammer weapon for guardians/warriors is amazing) and some combat mechanics for certain classes are really nice (e.g. engineer flamethrower, mesmer clone shattering, etc.).

I don't think it's the best MMO in the world, but it's certainly fun to play for a good while, I've been on it for one year and I'm still not bored. In Swtor, just to mention one, I didn't make it to the end of the free month.
 

Conefed

Blackwing Lair Raider
2,850
1,702
As "snack" games, quick gaming fix, increase in demand, want of time-consuming mmo grind reduce
 

Magog_sl

shitlord
13
0
No one mentioned Neverwinter, how did that turn out? CoH/CoV was one of my best MMO experiences. Really felt like a powerful hero/villain fighting multiple mobs and the grouping was probably the funnest time I've had. It was just so chaotic with powers flying everywhere. Mastermind class was awesome, too. Since the same studio that made CoH/CoV made Neverwinter I'm interested to hear if it was any good.