IT/Software career thread: Invert binary trees for dollars.

Palum said:

OK brosephs I need your opinions. While I have a tech and software background I never took the career path of a coder so somewhat flying blind here.

I have a brother who is graduating a decent state school with his BS in CS soon, OK GPA but nothing outstanding and he's got 4 years of PT experience working in the lab at the school testing new hardware and software to meet IEEE (I think?) specs.

They've offered him his masters for free if he stays on at the lab.

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100% with what wormie said.
It depends on his interests and the work he is interested in. I would advise him for INFORM himself well, and make his own choice based on his interests and the work and career he might like.

Step 1: inform himself

• research career paths & his industry & hardware/software companies that might employ him. See what they DO, and might WANT to do in FUTURE (2-8 years).
  
• postgrad is really about RESEARCH.... so he better like research (that he can then help guide grunts to apply to his design later)
• If he is not already there yet, then do a lot of talking to grad students, professors and others at the lab and his university to get a *feel* for the hands on work, research, code & projects they are doing.TRY to talk to industry contacts if he can

A lot of Comp-Sci is different from some other areas of research this way because if you are so interested and inclined you can almost just study and go and code in your basement and get very good practical experience. Look at game emulator community for example

Self guided learning experience can be VERY highly valued, MUCH more so than just *grades* from a student factory (undergrad Univ).

Step 2: decision
So after informing himself, talking and investigating projects & the work involved, advise him to make his own decision based on IF:

• he is at all interested in the research or development of something more advanced than just grunt coding and making money.
• he is an independant thinker with some interesting ideas or an deeper interest in some promising, usefull area of study? (***)

AND

• .... he has some idea what knowledge & skills will be desired by certain employers that he might like to work for? Basically, make sure there are employers out there that will apply his research.

I would recommend he NOT do MS if he is just doing it for money/job though. Career interest should be there, ballanced with a decent chance of non entry job after. As long as he is not sitting on his ass in school *just doing bare minimum for grades*, and getting some real work experience (coding or relevant specialization) doing his research he should be in a better position finding a NON entry level job after graduating IMHO. His professors and colleagues should be the ones to seek most information and guidance from. His goal is to get a feel for the market and opportunities in the industry related to his interests.

I would just invite him share his findings with you and family so you can provide an ear and some feedback and opinion, but I would let him do all legwork and decision making without specific judgments for him.

(***) If he does NOT know what he wants to do, or is unable to find out and cultivate any contacts socially to inform himself well enough for his satisfaction to make a decision..... then he should probably drop the *deal* and go to work. Coders do not have a long shelf life career wise btw...... you are expected to progress or risk get replaced by university grunts (or worse soon).

Suggested reading: for a little perspective from present....and future:

• Career Path of a Programmer - CenturyLink Cloud Developer Center
  
• Google’s AI software is learning to make AI software
• explore reading seriously about OTHER but related jobs or fields NOT around coding, but around industry. Nobody says you HAVE to do one thing your whole life.... good to be flexible and informed on choices

No, tis not doomsday yet but automated learning systems are looming..... and will be highly disruptive to ALL thinking professions in the especially in the IT market. There are a LOT of grund *simpler* entry level coding jobs out there ready to be pruned ......

I also think the risk is greater because if he doesn't do better at his MS, he's going to be competing a lot with higher GPA undergrads with less pay requirements/expectations and will suffer.

So what is your experience for software engineering and/or hardware/embedded devices? I perceive there to be very little practical value from an MS and that it might make his eventual job search harder rather than easier if he's competing with recent BS grads. It would be very different if he were going to a top school (or ivy league) or going for something like CE or EE in postgrad.

Thanks

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I would NOT get him worry much about $$, GPA or any such stuff because once you are in (work).... nobody gives a sh*t if you got a A- or A+ as LONG as you can WORK well and THINK well. In general F*ck grades, most best jobs are gotten through contacts anyhow, shoot for that.

Re: very little practical value from an MS
IMO it would be up to your brother to decide if Masters (or phd) would be a worthwhile specialization towards a particular career path. If he so chooses he might want to obtain self guided learning/research for MORE (specific) experience but ONLY for certain jobs, at certain companies (for him to figure out).

Once you are in the industry and get some software dev & lifecycle experience, it would not be difficult to change tracks into different area. It can often be a great asset (broader vs narrower experience). See Noodleface here for example.

Palum said:

Yea, my bigger worry is he doesn't actually know what he wants to do. Even within the general sphere of "programming" he could work in tons of different areas and companies. Seems like the default with an MS is "don't need" for all the jobs he THINKS he might like.

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Gotcha.

MS prob out then.... but....before diving into looking for work, I would still advise him to inform self and talk with and look at what research groups at school work on. People often will gladly share and actually let you see and demonstrate and explain stuff just for fun!

Doing a little career research will also be very helpfull to find the right job fit, and demonstrate some knowledge and interest to interviewers to LAND the job . That is where doing leg-work to inform himself might really pay off and is MORE important than just grades. Grades just show effort in school, NOT inteligence or fit for job. Demonstrating interest, awareness and aptitude for the work you might be doing at a company is much more important.

People really should be guided to get more insight (beyond courses) into the code of projects and research in the field while at University IMO. It is something he WILL eventually need if he wants to go explore options beyond grunt coder anyhow.
Being in touch with current trends and research SHOULD be part of every developers responsability to himself (or he will be obsolete VERY fast and discarded very fast).

Looking seriously into his prospective field will pay dividends down the road is more important career wise than worrying about the first job or $$. For the most part, first jobs will be noob positions @ noob grunt salary that will give people experience that will open a ton of doors regardless

Just IMO based on my experiences including hiring/firing , hope that helps.