JRPGs

Rude · Nov 29, 2022

I'm liking all of this FFT talk. Not sure when the last time I've done a single class challenge was but I typically just prepare for Wiegraf on fresh games. That and enjoying the show otherwise.

Actual FF2? Played it normally the first time. The second / last time I just beat the shit out of myself for a few hours before actually starting the game. I think one of the handheld versions actually added an extra dungeon though.

Kriptini · Nov 30, 2022

They took out the "thank you" VO line from the wanzer dealer. Unforgiveable.

AladainAF · Nov 30, 2022

Ahhhhh trails of cold steel. Never change.

Rajaah · Nov 30, 2022

I've never played any Trails games at all, but a few people I know are really into them. I haven't even been able to keep up with Xenoblade in terms of modern stuff. At least I played Persona 5. I respect that the Trails games set up a world and followed through with it over ~10? ish games, kinda feels like it's what the Suikoden series coulda been.

Rude said:
I'm liking all of this FFT talk. Not sure when the last time I've done a single class challenge was but I typically just prepare for Wiegraf on fresh games. That and enjoying the show otherwise.

Actual FF2? Played it normally the first time. The second / last time I just beat the shit out of myself for a few hours before actually starting the game. I think one of the handheld versions actually added an extra dungeon though.

Preparing for Wiegraf is like the main thing to worry about throughout FFT.

My main thought on this replay is that I wish the game had a speedup function or moved faster. It's pretty slow.

Yeah, actual FF2. I have 3 dungeons left. Mysidia Tower (4th to last dungeon) wasn't quite as bad as I expected but it was pretty rough. I'd compare Mysidia Tower to a final dungeon in a regular FF in terms of difficulty. This one...you have 3 more after it that are comparable or worse. FF2 and FF3 are the hardest games in the series and it isn't even remotely close. FF5 probably takes third. No wonder Dumb Americans didn't get any of those games on the SNES, they probably thought we couldn't handle them.

I usually beat up my characters until they're at like 1k to 3k HP at the beginning too. I've played FF2 4x in the past (original version, Dawn of Souls version, PSP version, original version again) and did that every time, game went a lot more smoothly with powered-up characters.

This time (PS1 version) I didn't do that and tried to actually play the game normally. The enemies hit a massive scaling leap at a few points, like Dreadnought, the Arena area, and the Mysidia area. So playing normally didn't work for long. Now I've got everyone at around 2k HP with 3 dungeons left. I'm waiting until I get the fourth party member before I do any more grinding. It's so annoying that you don't get him until there are two dungeons left. He's always mad underpowered and it isn't even really worth the trouble to power him up. So because I have to power everyone up, that'll help his odds. I'm gonna have everyone Swap with low level enemies (too bad the overworld enemies get switched to high-level enemies by this point, I'll have to go into Semitt Falls or something).

Swap works REALLY well for grinding characters up. If you Swap with low-level enemies, pretty much all of the character's stats go up at the end of the fight.

FF2 could really use an airship. I'm beyond tired of running back and forth on this overworld on foot.

I wish PS1 had an FF3 I could go on to after this. Drives my OCD nuts that PS1 has FF1-2 and FF4-9 but not 3.

Rajaah · Dec 1, 2022

Finished FF2 PS1. Had to train up the Berserk spell in the final dungeon as that was the only way to significantly damage the final boss without using the Blood Sword. Got Berserk to 10 and that did the trick. Also beat Astaroth. I always thought of him as just one of the four guardians on route to the final boss, but he's way stronger than the other 3 OR the final boss, and is optional, so now I think Astaroth is more like the game's optional uberboss.

Also got to Riovanes in FFT. With the Chameleon Robe, Ramza was able to beat Wiegraf, but it took a while and still wasn't easy. Basically had to run away the whole fight, snipe him with Geomancy until his health got lower, and get lucky at the end with him missing an attack and me not missing. Then the Velius fight was brutal as usual, but I think I took off about two-thirds of his HP. I think it might be winnable with that party (hell, I'm sure it is) but I wasn't gonna do the Wiegraf RNG-fest again. I kinda planned on ending this run at this point anyway.

Rajaah · Dec 4, 2022

FF Tactics has amazing cover art (most of Square's PS1 output did). However, what's going on with this:

The screenshots on the back cover don't add up. Delita at the waterfall is fine. The one on the left, though, that looks like Vormav activating his Lucavi transformation, in the room where you fight Zalbag (IIRC). He doesn't do that until the airship graveyard at the end. Hard to see in this resolution if it's actually Vormav but I think it is, and the light color matches his stone.

And then there's the top screenshot, which looks like an area that doesn't even exist in the game! I don't recognize that "old man" sprite in that battle either.

I assume the Vormav shot is from an early version of the game. Anyone know what's up with the top screenshot, though? Is there some hidden battle I don't know about? If that's from an early version, why'd they take it out? Looks like a pretty sweet battle arena.

Szeth · Dec 4, 2022

Looks like it could be a thief?

Avatar of Nyx · Dec 4, 2022

Rajaah said:
FF Tactics has amazing cover art (most of Square's PS1 output did).

Ive always kinda felt the opposite. I was big into buying import PS1 games back in the mid to late 90s thanks to a shop nearby that sold them. It was always cool to have the big, hyped games months or years before anyone else, disregarding the fact I couldnt read anything without a translation guide. Square's game cases were usually very clean, just a fancy logo on a solid background, I liked the minimalist approach.

I dug out my Square titles and snapped a pic. The poor FF4 case has not survived the years unscathed

Rajaah · Dec 4, 2022

Szeth said:
Looks like it could be a thief?

I think it's actually a White Mage. Just noticed that the other two characters on the upper wall are both defending (looks like a Samurai? and Dragoon). That could be a WM defending.

Still, the actual battle arena in the shot isn't one I recognize from the game and now I'm super-intrigued to know either A) If that's a secret I missed or B) If that's cut content, what area was it supposed to be?

IIRC Fort Besselat and Bethla Garrison were both areas that the game teased but you didn't go to. Actually, maybe you do go to BG really late now that I think about it and FB is the one that's teased. Like you see it on the map, then it poofs and your characters change course.

I'm gonna go ahead and wager that the battle in that shot is probably an early-version Fort Besselat before it was cut.

Rude any insight?

Rajaah · Dec 4, 2022

Avatar of Nyx said:
Ive always kinda felt the opposite. I was big into buying import PS1 games back in the mid to late 90s thanks to a shop nearby that sold them. It was always cool to have the big, hyped games months or years before anyone else, disregarding the fact I couldnt read anything without a translation guide. Square's game cases were usually very clean, just a fancy logo on a solid background, I liked the minimalist approach.

I dug out my Square titles and snapped a pic. The poor FF4 case has not survived the years unscathed
View attachment 446104

That's pretty cool. FF4 got a standalone PS1 version in Japan?

It's funny, this is what I wished I could have done in the 90's. As early as 1995 I was obsessed with Japan-only games like FF5 and Star Ocean and would have jumped through hoops to import them if my family could have afforded it. If there had been a nearby store to buy stuff at without the high import costs, I totally would have done this same thing even if I couldn't read anything.

Hell, as soon as I could emulate things (just NES at first) I played through the entirety of FF2 and FF3 (Famicom) on emulator without being able to read a damn thing, that was a challenge and I think it took me weeks. I think I also played the Famicom DBZ RPGs, particularly liked the second one (Freeza Saga).

I did have one import store near me but it was all just manga/anime. Nothing I was interested in, except they had VHS tapes of a ton of the original Dragonball series. At that point I'd seen the first 60?ish episodes of DBZ that got played on repeat all the time and it was the other thing I was into besides Squaresoft. I almost got my mom to spend like $100 on Dragonball VHSes so I could see the genesis of DBZ. Glad I didn't, because the first 30ish episodes I would have gotten wouldn't have been worth it.

The big import I would have jumped for, though, is FF7. From around October 96 to October 97 (when I finally got it), I was full-on obsessed with FF7 and studied everything I could find about it, screenshots, story writeups, artwork. Particularly the artwork, which was all CGI and made it look super-futuristic. If I had the opportunity, I would have played it as soon as it was out in Japan, unreadable or not.

That year-long wait was torture and it was the most excited I've ever been for an upcoming game. As horrible as it was after a while to want something that bad and not be able to have it, I'd love to feel that again because nothing in the modern era gets me that excited, not even remotely. I guess two decades of the internet shitting on everything I like has beaten me down. Games like the upcoming Crisis Core and FF16 are just things to check off a list, even though I'm interested in them. Though I will say that I've got a tinge of that old feeling for FF7 Remake Part 2, even though the first was a letdown and I should know better. Just a tinge.

Avatar of Nyx · Dec 4, 2022

Your mystery map can be seen in action here. This video was taken from a FFT beta video according to the description

Edit - I got into the importing game early. My first imported title was Strider back on the Genesis. Had to do some major convincing to get my parents to order it as I was just a little shit back then. "Modding" a Genesis to play Mega Drive games was much easier than getting a Playstation modded. To be completely honest, I dont even remember buying this imported FF4, but most of the games in my import box are head scratchers these days as to when/why I bought em.

Rajaah · Dec 4, 2022

Avatar of Nyx said:
Your mystery map can be seen in action here. This video was taken from a FFT beta video according to the description

Wow, pretty much every map shown in that video isn't in the final game.

Raises even more questions.

I'm guessing the fortress in the screenshot isn't even a real area in the game, but a test arena they designed for showing off.

Some of those maps look bigger than what's in the actual game, like the one with the high walkway. Intriguing stuff.

Rude · Dec 4, 2022

Rajaah said:
I think it's actually a White Mage. Just noticed that the other two characters on the upper wall are both defending (looks like a Samurai? and Dragoon). That could be a WM defending.

View attachment 446133

Still, the actual battle arena in the shot isn't one I recognize from the game and now I'm super-intrigued to know either A) If that's a secret I missed or B) If that's cut content, what area was it supposed to be?

IIRC Fort Besselat and Bethla Garrison were both areas that the game teased but you didn't go to. Actually, maybe you do go to BG really late now that I think about it and FB is the one that's teased. Like you see it on the map, then it poofs and your characters change course.

I'm gonna go ahead and wager that the battle in that shot is probably an early-version Fort Besselat before it was cut.

Rude any insight?

Man, I'm not sure any of the maps have that castle design.. I thought at first it was Limberry but it sure as hell isn't.

Final Fantasy Hacktics ~ Maps

ffhacktics.com

Regarding units, I think to left to right : white mage, samurai, monk. Never thought about the picture asset though.. Now I'm curious.

That other piece with Vormav is definitely at Murond. It happens, start around 1:22

Hateyou · Dec 10, 2022

Picked this up and it’s really good. Made by a single dude which is insane for how good this is. It’s on sale atm on steam but I wouldn’t have cared if it was full price. One person I know loved it so much he tried on game pass for 6 hours then went to steam and bought it just to support the guy.

The way the overdrive system works and characters skills interacting with each other and swapping in and out makes the battles, even trash mobs, varied and interesting.

Vorph · Dec 10, 2022

Hateyou said:
One person I know loved it so much he tried on game pass for 6 hours then went to steam and bought it just to support the guy.

I'm tempted to do that, except with the Switch version. Seems like a perfect fit for handheld mode.

CaughtCross · Dec 10, 2022

Hateyou said:
Picked this up and it’s really good. Made by a single dude which is insane for how good this is. It’s on sale atm on steam but I wouldn’t have cared if it was full price. One person I know loved it so much he tried on game pass for 6 hours then went to steam and bought it just to support the guy.

The way the overdrive system works and characters skills interacting with each other and swapping in and out makes the battles, even trash mobs, varied and interesting.

Played for 20 minutes on gamepass before buying it on Switch. This game is amazing.

velk · Dec 10, 2022

Hateyou said:
Picked this up and it’s really good. Made by a single dude which is insane for how good this is. It’s on sale atm on steam but I wouldn’t have cared if it was full price. One person I know loved it so much he tried on game pass for 6 hours then went to steam and bought it just to support the guy.

Huh, you are right - this *is* really good.

I can't even put my finger on why - just lots of little things coming together really well. Also, I proved my pro-gamer cred by getting killed in the tutorial* ;p

The start with the different characters is an application of 'Show, don't tell' that is done masterfully. I can't help but contrast it with Tactics Ogre, where my main reaction was 'blah, lore, skip skip skip skip'. I lol'ed at the end of Victor's intro, that was some A-grade meta trolling, he got me good.

*I actually appreciate being able to fail if you are bad.

Pyros · Dec 11, 2022

Googling it, it seems they're saying it's ~30hours, can anyone confirm it's not one of these indie 5hours RPG unfinished story thing? I've ran into a few in the past that weren't so bad, but clearly were like "Act 1 of a 4 acts game but who knows if the other acts will ever be released" kind of shit. I don't even mind if it's shorter, just under 10hours for a RPG usually is kinda too short to tell a decent story(I guess there's exceptions though).

CaughtCross · Dec 11, 2022

Pyros said:
Googling it, it seems they're saying it's ~30hours, can anyone confirm it's not one of these indie 5hours RPG unfinished story thing? I've ran into a few in the past that weren't so bad, but clearly were like "Act 1 of a 4 acts game but who knows if the other acts will ever be released" kind of shit. I don't even mind if it's shorter, just under 10hours for a RPG usually is kinda too short to tell a decent story(I guess there's exceptions though).

This full play through video is 16 hours.

Chris · Dec 11, 2022

velk said:
The start with the different characters is an application of 'Show, don't tell' that is done masterfully. I can't help but contrast it with Tactics Ogre, where my main reaction was 'blah, lore, skip skip skip skip'.

I think I tried tutorials of Tactics Ogre and Octopath Traveller 1 and 2 and immediately uninstalled them.

I'm not watching hours long "story" sequences with the promise of there being a game somewhere between them ever again. It's almost always insufferable garbage.

I'm replaying FF6 and the game has a ton of story without having to resort to extended boring sequences of character building.

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