League Of Legends

GuardianX

Perpetually Pessimistic
<Bronze Donator>
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Honestly i'll admit I suck at the game if you can link me some videos of gold/plat players carrying a team of bronze feeders/trolls. I'd also accept a series of youtube videos of someone who isn't a pro chronicling their journey out of bronze 4 or 5 and in to platinum in 50 or 60 games played.
Not a very good comparison.

Most of the people who post those videos have a name associated with them and thus the people IN the game try a LOT harder because of the "pro" player. Last I saw was Imaqtpie doing his bronze 5 in diamond thing, or trying it. The thing was, most the players he was with knew it was him. When it was bronze elo though, he was STOMPING people. There is LITTLE chance that a person from that bracket can outplay him so every dive they did would usually result in 2-3 kills on his side. He did lose a few if I am remembering right simply because they would dogpile him and his team was SO bad that they would lose.
 

zombiewizardhawk

Potato del Grande
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That's why I asked for ones of non pros doing it and why i'm interested in following Eidal doing it since he's using a bronze friends account to do it and not a smurf account.
 

Mures

Blackwing Lair Raider
4,014
511
It's not all about player skill. Maybe, like your posting implies,you are simply terrible with other people and merely being on your team causes them to rage uncontrollably and that is the reason you lose more than you win. I have played since pre season one and the only time I have ever been in "bronze" tier is when ranked elo was a clean slate at 1200 when season one started. If you belong out of there then you will climb out of there by simply playing better than your opponents consistently.
This is another good point. If your play is poor than your teammates will also be poor so improving your play can only improve that of your teammates as well. And thats not even to say your play is always poor compared to your teammates, but playing better can only increase your teammate's play as well.
 

zombiewizardhawk

Potato del Grande
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And there you go assuming i'm a bad player again based on nothing considering you've seen nothing of how I play.

Edit:

Second game i'm recording now. Our last pick is 33/59 W/L in ranked, silver V somehow tho and calling adc.
 
2,122
3
Not making any real judgement on your personal skill level at the game itself. But you're showing part of why you are still in bronze. Stop using elophant/lolking/whatever. Stop caring about your mmr/league and just play. I know this sounds stupid and cliche as hell, but I'm on a 70% win rate over my last 40 games. I just stopped caring. Uninstalled elophant, stopped caring whether I won or lost, and most importantly I stopped raging and blaming others. Sure I know that 0-6 xin contributed heavily to the loss, but I sure as hell didn't put my heel to kennen's throat like I should of when I had him down 0-2 as Jayce.
 

lindz

#DDs
1,202
69
If you are in bronze you are by definition bad at the game. Ask any diamond player if they have moments of total derp and suck at the game often. Part of getting better at any game is realizing how bad you are.

I am in Bronze 2 right now, only played like 50 ranked games this season but in those 50 games I have moved from B4 to B2. I KNOW I am terrible. My mechanics suck and I am clearly at or below my ELO as far as mechanics, but I have a lot higher game knowledge than my ELO because I watch a lot of LoL and am constantly learning. I have the benefit of my husband who is Gold to help me and he has carried my games just by watching me play and making the correct calls through even the most trolley of games.

You will never get out of "ELO hell" if you cannot get over yourself and start to learn. We all have streaks of terrible trolls but by 160~ games or whatever you have, you are pretty close to your correct ELO give or take a bracket. Focus on your gameplay, learn one or two champs until you are awesome with them and carry yourself out of your current bracket.
 

Mures

Blackwing Lair Raider
4,014
511
Did you miss the part where I said that it doesn't even mean your play is bad compared to that of your teammates? Sure you can be the BEST player on your team 4/5 times but the BEST player on a bronze team is still just the BEST player on a bronze team. There is a lot of shit you can do to improve and it can only help your team/mates.
 

zombiewizardhawk

Potato del Grande
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Second game was another crushing victory, enemy team had a zac support with tristana bot. I took Trynd jungle. Score ended up like 35 to 6. Would've been a good one to record an example of the kind of teams I always get in promotion games if I was on the other team. They lost every lane including jungle badly.

I went from bronze 4 to bronze 2 pretty quick too (am in 3 at the moment) but I lost 3 seperate promotion series to get out of bronze 2 (that's 2-3 games per series, along with 3-9 games in between getting back up to the next series), ended up getting demoted on one particularly bad losing streak and haven't played in the past few weeks due to Smite. The games really add up if you get unlucky when it really matters.

Edit:

I don't really put much meaning into lolking (only heard about it a few weeks ago and only using it at the moment because i'm trying to get a replay that goes bad to post so i'm checking if I might get it).
 

Sabbat

Trakanon Raider
1,970
856
As a player that started a while ago, and has recently gotten back into the game and NEVER played a ranked game, I find this discussion fascinating. I'm thinking about starting ranked, and then I look at discussions like this, and at my 88-82 normal game w/l ratio and think I just shouldn't bother and stick to bots.
 

Eidal

Molten Core Raider
2,001
213
Wizard, whats your ingame name? I'll spectate some time or invite you to one my normal games w/friends.

edit: The last few pages were quite entertaining... one thing I want to throw out there is that ALL of my bronze friends are ragers. A minor set-back earlygame throws them off balance so much that they're almost assuredly going to play weaker. Early-game leads into snowballing which leads into late-game dominance, but I can't even remember how many times I've seen the team with a gold lead get crushed hard in an end-game fight and lose minutes later. Winning players keep their head down and farm through a bad start, ragers lose their shit and start doing weird things which further cements the enemies lead.

Anyway, got the bronze account into series match and account owner is busy losing his series games right now but I'll just keep track of my record which is 3-2. One win was with Nunu whom I had never played before, lol.
 

GuardianX

Perpetually Pessimistic
<Bronze Donator>
7,453
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Wizard, whats your ingame name? I'll spectate some time or invite you to one my normal games w/friends.
Along this note, does rerolled have a community mumble / vent server? I know we have the old IRC still running, but I was thinking more along the lines of game voice chat.
 

zombiewizardhawk

Potato del Grande
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Wizard, whats your ingame name? I'll spectate some time or invite you to one my normal games w/friends.

edit: The last few pages were quite entertaining... one thing I want to throw out there is that ALL of my bronze friends are ragers. A minor set-back earlygame throws them off balance so much that they're almost assuredly going to play weaker. Early-game leads into snowballing which leads into late-game dominance, but I can't even remember how many times I've seen the team with a gold lead get crushed hard in an end-game fight and lose minutes later. Winning players keep their head down and farm through a bad start, ragers lose their shit and start doing weird things which further cements the enemies lead.

Anyway, got the bronze account into series match and account owner is busy losing his series games right now but I'll just keep track of my record which is 3-2. One win was with Nunu whom I had never played before, lol.
I do rage sometimes in games but most of the time when I do it's long after the game is lost and a lot of times I get started after someone else starts raging.

My account is Wizardhawk.
 

Sabbat

Trakanon Raider
1,970
856
Attitude plays a big part in gaming performance. Don't rage. Keep your head down, and stop playing for a bit after that match, even if you manage to turn it around.
 

Dandain

Trakanon Raider
2,092
917
Here is a question, how much does everyone believe that the limited hero pool that your account allows you to play in ranked affect the ability to win lanes or games? This might not be very articulately explained but work with me on making sure I'm asking the right question.

With leagues static meta of top/jungle/mid/adc+sup it leads to a very strong emphasis on the notion of counter picking because more or less lanes will be matched up against a mirrored top/mid/bot duo/jungle player who's objectives are identical as their direct opponent in lane. The only difference between top and bottom in league is their relative proximity to which color of their sides golem buffs and then of course dragon/baron. The lanes are symmetrical by distance from tower to tower. I don't play league enough personally to really answer this because I just don't enjoy it as much as dota 2, but my friends who play a metric fuckton of league always prattle on about counter picking when I play a few games with them. Since League and dota are close relatives I was curious what the board experts think on this subject.

The only example that I personally know is Teemo to counter a champ like Darius top. But what happens when you don't own Teemo or another relative counter? What happens when Darius is your only top laner and that's the role you end up with in the pick phase and the opponent counter picks you. The LCS is obviously not limited in this manner, teams are allowed to pick any champion they want from first to last pick as long as it hasn't been banned or picked by the opponent first.

This obviously plays some impact on the ability of any given account to climb in ranks, raw skill at a position or mechanics can obviously overcome the notion of counter picking or coordination from the rest of your team to limit the damage. But if all variables are the same; player skill, rune pages, champion pool does the counter pick more often than not tend to dictate the outcome of the early game in any given lane?

A more specific question. If you gave the two best top laners in league Teemo / Darius (or some other agreed upon example by people in this thread) Does one champions skill set just automatically win the lane given no mistakes by either player?

The corollary of this question is then when you're required to fill a certain role in the pick phase due to called requests, pick order, bans, opponent picks. In the chance you end up in a lane or role where you don't own the counter pick is that game more likely to be lost as opposed to a game where you do own the counter pick.

In specific contrast to dota, the hero pool isn't locked, and the lanes aren't symmetrical. The equivalent of leagues ADC's don't necessarily lane directly against one another, especially in pub dota, and even at lower skill levels the banned draft gameplay allows for all heroes and bans to be chosen in all pick positions asthe LCS professional games run for league.
 

Xalara

Golden Squire
826
81
Dandain, you might want to pick a better example than Teemo/Darius since it's my experience that a good Darius will rock a good Teemo
tongue.png
 

Dandain

Trakanon Raider
2,092
917
That's why I said - let the people in this thread pick the matchup, if my understanding of what counterpicking is defined as in the context of league is wrong set me straight. It should go without saying that there is infinitely more variables that determine game outcome, such as personal familiarity with any given champion. I was just curious if there was an opinion on if the locked hero pool per account indirectly dictates the outcome of many ranked games in league.
 

Eidal

Molten Core Raider
2,001
213
Here is a question, how much does everyone believe that the limited hero pool that your account allows you to play in ranked affect the ability to win lanes or games? This might not be very articulately explained but work with me on making sure I'm asking the right question.

With leagues static meta of top/jungle/mid/adc+sup it leads to a very strong emphasis on the notion of counter picking because more or less lanes will be matched up against a mirrored top/mid/bot duo/jungle player who's objectives are identical as their direct opponent in lane. The only difference between top and bottom in league is their relative proximity to which color of their sides golem buffs and then of course dragon/baron. The lanes are symmetrical by distance from tower to tower. I don't play league enough personally to really answer this because I just don't enjoy it as much as dota 2, but my friends who play a metric fuckton of league always prattle on about counter picking when I play a few games with them. Since League and dota are close relatives I was curious what the board experts think on this subject.

The only example that I personally know is Teemo to counter a champ like Darius top. But what happens when you don't own Teemo or another relative counter? What happens when Darius is your only top laner and that's the role you end up with in the pick phase and the opponent counter picks you. The LCS is obviously not limited in this manner, teams are allowed to pick any champion they want from first to last pick as long as it hasn't been banned or picked by the opponent first.

This obviously plays some impact on the ability of any given account to climb in ranks, raw skill at a position or mechanics can obviously overcome the notion of counter picking or coordination from the rest of your team to limit the damage. But if all variables are the same; player skill, rune pages, champion pool does the counter pick more often than not tend to dictate the outcome of the early game in any given lane?

A more specific question. If you gave the two best top laners in league Teemo / Darius (or some other agreed upon example by people in this thread) Does one champions skill set just automatically win the lane given no mistakes by either player?

The corollary of this question is then when you're required to fill a certain role in the pick phase due to called requests, pick order, bans, opponent picks. In the chance you end up in a lane or role where you don't own the counter pick is that game more likely to be lost as opposed to a game where you do own the counter pick.

In specific contrast to dota, the hero pool isn't locked, and the lanes aren't symmetrical. The equivalent of leagues ADC's don't necessarily lane directly against one another, especially in pub dota, and even at lower skill levels the banned draft gameplay allows for all heroes and bans to be chosen in all pick positions asthe LCS professional games run for league.
It doesn't take too many champs for a particular role to be able to counter properly. I want to interject real quick with how I personally think a lot of people in my elo and below read WAY too much into countering... so much so that they'll google for a counter and then end up playing a champ that they aren't very good at. Some champions DO have inherent advantages during the laning phase. Equally skilled, a Caitlyn will win lane versus a Vayne the majority of the time.

I don't understand what you mean by the champions being locked. Do you mean that you can't play a champion you don't own? The simple answer to that is until you have a deep enough pool of champions that you're comfortable with to play, then you shouldn't play ranked. Ranked isn't meant to be a test of your prowess at one champ or even one role; it simply measures how much you win games and starts to sort people out and match them with people with the intent to have everyone winning 50 percent of their games.

It is typically a bad choice to first or second pick the solo lanes because you are more likely to be countered. That being said, some champions don't have many counters (Jayce/Kennen come to mind). Also, some players may feel confident enough that their sheer mastery of a given champ will be enough to overcome an early disadvantage. Being at a disadvantage for the first 10 minutes doesn't guarantee a loss; the dynamics of the jungle + each person's individual skill set keep things interesting.

To answer your corollary: yes, you are sometimes at a disadvantage sheerly from pick order and your own limited champion pool. You are equally as likely to end up with the advantage due to the enemy team operating under the same limitations.

With regards to the LCS, those players are not limited by owning the champion. They are competing at the international level and instead they are limited by their own skill sets. Most professionals are not prepared to play more than 5-10 champs at the professional level.

One final thing; many players in platinum+ got there through playing 1-3 champs VERY well. They understood intricately what lanes they had to play careful and what lanes they could go hard.
 

zombiewizardhawk

Potato del Grande
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The only times i've ever really seen limited hero pools make in impact is when someone gets stuck in a role but don't get a hero they're good with at that role due to bans/other team picks/whatever and are forced to choose a hero they aren't good with. In my brothers case, he started supporting with thresh and got fairly good at it. When we're duo tho he is usually last pick and sometimes when he gets stuck supporting thresh will be banned or the other team will pick him first which leaves him in a bad spot and me in a bad spot if i'm going adc because my support isn't comfortable/good, changes the entire style of play/etc.

As far as it relating to counter picking, I don't really see it being as big of a deal because IMO people in ranked should be able to play more than 1 role and more than 1 style of char because counter picking should be expected. Even if you can't play your best char due to the enemy team having a counter, you should be decent enough with a different champion who isn't hard countered. Can't stop somebody from counter picking you after you pick yourself regardless of how many champs you have unlocked.

One final thing; many players in platinum+ got there through playing 1-3 champs VERY well. They understood intricately what lanes they had to play careful and what lanes they could go hard.
Part of my problem might be the fact that I don't do this and instead like to play a wide range of champions (although I like to think i'm fairly good at evaluating any laning situation).