League Of Legends

I think what they are doing with Aegis/Bulwark/Locket is a solid improvement over the current situation but their new item is still absolutely 100% mandatory. The rest of the patch looks like good, moderate tweaks with no one getting the hammer. The turret changes seem a little hamfisted but they probably won't affect the games of us rank and file players in the slightest.

What I really want is to have the buff camps all spawn at 1:50 so helping your jungler doesn't cause you to miss out on CS.

Prediction - Jungle Yi is going to be hilariously overpowered.

Commander Vimeseh_sl said:

True Draegan. Too bad he basically turns the game in to a 4v5 if you don't win in ~20 minutes.

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It's this mentality that makes it really rough to play shaco, even up in high gold / low plat mmr. Shaco if played right should allow your team to be stronger after 20 minutes due to the amount of pressure you can put on early game. After early game you should turn into a split pushing monster and make sure your team groups up. Now, hopefully our 4 are stronger then their 4 (this should be the case if you played your early game well as shaco) which means they either 4v4 and win because they should be stronger, or they 4v5 and hopefully sit under a tower wave clearing while the shaco split pushes.

Plus, 3 or 4 item shaco can really fuck over an ADC in a teamfight. Hardest part is if the support is good enough to have an oracles and actually sits next to their ADC and peels.

Shaco is one of the faster tower killing champions in the game too, especially if you ult and plant boxes to kill towers as well.

Yah you'll still be foreced to build aegis in to locket as support or jungle. Yi jungle really won't be anything worse then it is now, his ganks will still be about as threatening as a goldfish unless his laners are running some heavy duty CC. I do think his solo laning will be much more tolerable though, and you can still play him like AP yi minus the massive sustain by just stacking AD.

Commander Vimeseh_sl said:

True Draegan. Too bad he basically turns the game in to a 4v5 if you don't win in ~20 minutes.

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The vids I saw had him split pushing instead of team fighting. Seemed legit.

I've played a ridiculous amount of games as Shaco from his release onward and he's just been nerfed too many times. Yeah, there are tons of cute and clever things you can do but his toolbox is just so small compared to what it once was. He's just not really worth the effort for anyone to learn.

Why do you say that? He appears to be a very decent ganker and counter jungler.

Because he's totally awful late game? He's only good if he snowballs early and your team puts away the game before it goes late, but he won't snowball early unless you're playing against stupid people.

man, so much for building an early locket vs a team w/ little ap damage. i build that on lost of junglers and nasus top lane, more often than i would build aegis.

If you were going to put in the amount of effort required to consistently do well with Shaco you would be better rewarded with picking up Lee Sin. The last set of nerfs that hit the slow % on Two Shiv Poison and reduced the range on Deceive hurt his early game a great deal without providing anything to aid his poor late game team fight contribution. Carry style junglers aren't all that great in S3. His dueling versus other popular junglers (Udyr, Lee Sin) is miserable. His split pushing is terrible if you don't itemize specifically for it.

Arbitrary_sl said:

If you were going to put in the amount of effort required to consistently do well with Shaco you would be better rewarded with picking up Lee Sin. The last set of nerfs that hit the slow % on Two Shiv Poison and reduced the range on Deceive hurt his early game a great deal without providing anything to aid his poor late game team fight contribution. Carry style junglers aren't all that great in S3. His dueling versus other popular junglers (Udyr, Lee Sin) is miserable.His split pushing is terrible if you don't itemize specifically for it.

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To be fair you should always be itemizing for split pushing on Shaco. He's complete garbage if you build like any other normal jungle (SotAG - Aegis - Tabi etc etc)

@Draegan
He's just tough to learn and he doesn't play like any other jungle in the game. So if you're really trying to learn jungle you should probably play somebody more standard imo. He actually does very well pre-30 and lower leagues though, because nobody knows how to protect/collapse on shaco in their jungle and nobody buys pink wards or oracles, so you probably can snowball pretty hard.

What everyone else said. Plus you have two types of split pushers that are effective at the moment. The offensive based split pushers like Tryndamere or Jax who push fast and can 1v1 anybody on the enemy team. So you need to send more then one person to stop them which results in 3v4 fights over other objectives. Then you have the global ult or teleport based split pushers who may not be able to kill everyone on the other team 1v1 but are safe (Shen, Malphite, Twisted Fate, Vlad in OGN) and either because of summoner choice or global ults can leave behind the person that came to defend their push and force a 4v5 on the other side of the map.

Shaco does neither. Barring a complete and utter stomp that you could win regardless of strat he can't 1v1 mid to late game carries around their tower and he can't afford to bring teleport as a summoner choice because as a jungler he is running smite and his nerfed deceive won't let him run without flash (although some people still try ignite which makes his late game even worse). He's just bad. Great at pub stomping in lower levels and MMRs though. At least until your Bronze team decides that its time to 4v5 and "shaco is useless splitpush nab".

You can buy SC2 not even finish the campaign and jump straight into ladder games. With League, you have to play around 200 - 300 games to get to 30 and then acquire at least 16 champs to even begin playing ranked.

It should be no surprise that bronze players in SC2 are worse mechanically than bronze players in League. Especially since the campaign in SC2 teaches you next to none of the skills that are actually required to play ranked at above average level.

Sidian_sl said:

To be fair you should always be itemizing for split pushing on Shaco. He's complete garbage if you build like any other normal jungle (SotAG - Aegis - Tabi etc etc)

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That's not a refutation of my statement. You can either build to try and carry (and carry junglers are weak in S3) or you build can build to split push on a champion that has terrible innate wave clear. The last set of nerfs to Shaco took down his win rate 5+ percent from top 5 down to bottom 50%. If someone is looking to pick up a new jungler he is not worth the time and effort necessary to do well with him.

Well that's depressing. I was hoping to play a different style jungle from elise/zac.

Man Nocturne seems bad now. Literally everyone has a dash and he can't spike people down in teamfights. He's basically a tank with shitty engage if you don't dominate laning phase. Meh.

I know he's still used in competitive play but he seems so bad in team fights.

I started 6/0 and then Kayle didn't ult me in a fight bottom and Graves got my 500 gold spree bonus along with a red buff that he used to later double kill bottom with. Fiora and Kayle both were on me about picking Shaco because of how bad he is and no one was even kinda surprised that starting 6/0 meant nothing.

There's your final reason not to pick him. No one on your team will see any value in your contributions because the public sentiment is that Shaco is terrible and can't close games.

Well, their team comp is miles ahead of yours though. Shaco is terrible to pick if your team is all squishy, which your team was. Also, merc treads doesn't make any sense on shaco and I'm not a fan of Ghostblade. (many are though, so that's mainly preference.)

Honestly if you are getting sick of doing Elise/Zac/Nasus standard type jungles everygame then just play Shaco if you want to spice it up. He's a good pick and there are many people that can easily play shaco up to challenger. I know Iwilldominate and Crumbz play Shaco quite a bit while solo queue. Also InSec played Shaco at that Asians Indoors tournament this month and they won that game. So it's not like he's a complete pile of trash.

Just as I said, you have to play him completely different from every other jungle in the game. Gank early, counter jungle often, steal kills if possible and split push constantly.

He's also much better in solo queue because the enemy team probably won't have your entire jungle warded, they also won't collapse on you most likely if you're counter jungling.

@Vimeseh, Flash on Shaco is terrible imo. You usually always go Ignite, unless nobody else on your team has Exhaust. You take ignite for the early game power. If you counter jungle and catch the enemy at their red, between your Box + Ignite + Crit from your deceive you can kill just about anyone.

Got a stick of gum, kid? I'll show you how to chew it.

o shit