League Of Legends

^ not only this but they also recruited someone who I believe was a sub or wasn't on the main team. If he was good in Korea he would still be in Korea competing at a high level.

I agree on the Korea thing as well, you don't go play a completely different meta to then come back to a meta you now forgot, you get wrecked. This was cemented even more by the video they showed that said that CLG doesn't prepare for teams individually they just play their strat, easily stupidest shit I have heard out dlift mouth.

Maybe now they can finally get rid of Dlift or he'll retire. I honestly think most of their problems fall back to the whole idea that Dlift is this world class adc and they still filter too many resources in to him. To the detriment of their jungle control and top laner especially. His decision making is still atrocious and he isn't head and heals above all the other NA adc's mechanically. Their recent sub announcement of Hi Im Gosu is probably a better mechanical player at this point.

Ya, dlift really isn't the top tier shit that he used to be. I didn't mention it but I agree with Regi. How the fuck do you have a coach that is always casting OGN? No way he can be effective.

What incentive does doublelift have to retire? If retirement means making less money - I don't see him doing that. Popularity alone can drive a team financially in league as long as they are merely in the LCS - results are not required beyond not getting relegated. In many ways - a well known name is worth tons more in exposure than anyone who's actually "better" than doublelift. Its not as if one player swap puts CLG into contention in worlds. From a team perspective - why would CLG cut its best asset from a branding standpoint?

If you're talking purely about money, then sure keeping dlift is probably the way to go. From a competitive standpoint, which I am concerned with, removing dlift won't make them a world class team but assuming a comparatively skilled but more team oriented adc replacement it would make all the difference in NA. When CLG was stomping earlier in the split the games were not all about protecting and funneling resources to dlift. They were actually playing a team oriented game where Dexter was helping mid a ton and wasn't completely leaving top out to dry like he has for the last couple of months. Also, your top laner excels at carry tops. His best champ is Nidalee. Yet because Dlift doesn't like the champ (lol, hi Quaz) Seraph isn't allowed to play it or other carry tops like Yasuo. This has been verified from Seraph and Monte on Inven. So why not remove a middle of the pack ADC if your goal is to actually win the LCS and having a competitive shot at worlds down the line?

edit: I do have to add though that for CLG as a business entity keeping DLift for the money is a short term positive. The reason TSM has the largest fan base and the largest income of the NA LCS teams is because they have been winners in NA effectively since very early on in the competitive scene. Despite CLG technically being an older team they have always been the also ran when it comes to both competitive results and revenue. Mostly because they haven't won anything important in years.

Exactly, you can say what you want, but if you win you will have a huge fan base. Look at TSM, they have an entirely new team aside from Dyrus and yet are still as popular as ever. Getting rid of people doesn't always mean you lose popularity but is also depends how you go about it I suppose.

I think your analysis is spot on - regarding being competitive. I just think that NA LCS is in a wierd place in the financial ecosystem of league. Its awesome the players get salaries, endorsements, streaming revenue, and job security. But when you bring in the other regions of League for Worlds where player compensation is much more closely linked to performance, it seems to let down the NA LCS teams the most. NA teams almost have to be self motivated to want to compete at worlds - because financially practicing 12 hours a day has a shitty return on compensation as long as your skill set keeps you the 8th best team or better.

I was trying to brain storm ideas, and coming up pretty dry. How do you motivate the 5-8th LCS teams to want to be better?

I think putting DLift as a 'middle of the pack adc' is a little much.

sebur_sl said:

Exactly, you can say what you want, but if you win you will have a huge fan base. Look at TSM, they have an entirely new team aside from Dyrus and yet are still as popular as ever. Getting rid of people doesn't always mean you lose popularity but is also depends how you go about it I suppose.

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Roster changing is fine - but don't undervalue name recognition. Doublelift is a much bigger asset than his in game play. He's one of the few players where his total value is as much tied to his community figure/personality than his actual play.

Love seeing doublift get his shit pushed in. Cant stand the guy.

Drtyrm_sl said:

I think putting DLift as a 'middle of the pack adc' is a little much.

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Why? His game sense is abysmal and he isn't even the best mechanical adc in NA anymore, that would be Altec with sneaky and turtle being comparative to him. So as a total package what else does that make him?

Commander Vimeseh_sl said:

Why? His game sense is abysmal and he isn't even the best mechanical adc in NA anymore, that would be Altec with sneaky and turtle being comparative to him. So as a total package what else does that make him?

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I think its a fair assessment of him right now. I'd even go so far as to say I'd rather have sneaky/vasili/turtle as ADC because they dont require their entire team to play around them like doublelift does.

Dandain_sl said:

I think your analysis is spot on - regarding being competitive. I just think that NA LCS is in a wierd place in the financial ecosystem of league. Its awesome the players get salaries, endorsements, streaming revenue, and job security. But when you bring in the other regions of League for Worlds where player compensation is much more closely linked to performance, it seems to let down the NA LCS teams the most. NA teams almost have to be self motivated to want to compete at worlds - because financially practicing 12 hours a day has a shitty return on compensation as long as your skill set keeps you the 8th best team or better.

I was trying to brain storm ideas, and coming up pretty dry. How do you motivate the 5-8th LCS teams to want to be better?

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Well, just sitting on the streaming/celebrity income is undoubtedly easier, but I don't think it is really a problem for the bottom 3 teams so much as it is a problem for the top 4-5. When you think about it the "bad" teams tend not to have very active streamers or if they are active they usually don't have large numbers. For example westrice is the only active streamer from complexity and he rarely tops five hundred viewers from what I have seen. Krepo the only streamer from EG does a little better and can get 1 or 2k but they disapear as soon as bjerg/Qtpie/Nightblu3 show up. So I guess the question should be how do you motivate the players mid to top tier teams to want to improve. Because they get the viewer numbers and endorsements largely on their presence within the LCS which is fairly easy to maintain given the current shallow talent pool in the NA challenger scene.

The only thing I can think of is to convert to an OGN style (with some LPL thrown in) system where you do group stages in to playoffs and then use the coke league as their version of NLB. Total points gained over three splits dictates the teams that go to worlds. So you have to compete to actually be paid by riot (only teams that get out of groups would get serious money from Rito) but you aren't completely irrelevent if you fall in to the Coke league because you can still be gaining circuit points that count towards a Worlds appearance. Also get rid of the restriction from one ownership group running sister teams. Having two teams under one roof allows for high level practice and would lead to bigger sponsors that could afford the price tag to run a high tier gaming brand. Which would both increase the competition level in NA while at the same time either maintaining or increasing the players incomes.

edit for penalty:

Altec or Sneaky for me. Vasali isn't actually all that good on anything but Tristana which he somehow keeps getting, and while turtle I think is comparative mechanically to Dlift he also has the out of position and poor decision making problems that Dlift does. Just a bit less so and he isn't the focus of all his teams strats so the flaws aren't as out in the open.

I don't know. In my opinion the balance changes that have reduced adc power are something he hasn't adjusted to very well. It's easy to say someone is shit when they are on a losing streak. I think it's hard to assign sole cause to one player on a 5 man team.

Drtyrm_sl said:

I don't know. In my opinion the balance changes that have reduced adc power are something he hasn't adjusted to very well. It's easy to say someone is shit when they are on a losing streak. I think it's hard to assign sole cause to one player on a 5 man team.

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The changes didn't reduce ADC power. They increased it, on the whole. Slightly weaker early (which means little in pro level games because they just farm) and gave it a massive increase in the late game. Why you do you think the hyper carry ADCs who can farm in a fairly safe fashion are the cream of the crop right now? That is part of why I am so down on Doublelift. He was 6-1 at one point on Twitch in game one. How on earth do you not carry your team as a 6-1 twitch past the 25 minute mark when the game gold totals are tied? Well, I'll tell you how. You walk in to a Syndra and try to jump her while the enemy Zilian is two feet behind her and in vision range. She one shots you and gets Zil ulted, your team lose the follow up and you lose the game.

Concerning blaming one player for all of teams woes? Of course you can't blame him for everything, but CLG has been trying to build teams around DLifts carry potential for going on three years now. It hasn't worked, and I highly doubt every single other person that CLG has brought in to compliment him is the issue over such a long period of time.

Dandain_sl said:

Roster changing is fine - but don't undervalue name recognition. Doublelift is a much bigger asset than his in game play. He's one of the few players where his total value is as much tied to his community figure/personality than his actual play.

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I understand this and I don't doubt if he left CLG he would still have a huge following wherever he went. What I am saying is a brand can be larger than the person like TSM is. If you are telling me that if dlift left CLG nobody would ever watch CLG ever again even if they started winning everything then we will have to disagree there. Which was kind of my point, if CLG as a brand started winning and had an actual coach, no matter who is on the team they would be a big name.

Drtyrm_sl said:

I think putting DLift as a 'middle of the pack adc' is a little much.

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he hasn't really adapted yet to the new meta of playing hyper carries and while he is good at 1v1/solo laning he is absolutely abysmal in teamfights (positioning) and awareness

he tries to make flashy plays but often gets punished for it meanwhile you have adcs like Rekkles or Sneaky whose play may look unspectular but they get the job done and they perform really well kda wise even if their team ends up losing the game

Can't believe I have 4 CLG players on my fantasy team. It's up to you now ackerman, carry me to the ends of the earth!

Master Tier soon to be released andend of season rewardsexplained. The new Victorious Skin is a huge disappointment for me.

Seems like it's Morgana according to reddit. Really wish it was either Diana or Syndra though since Morg already has a shitload of cool skins.

That is pretty badass art though.