Legends of Runeterra

zzeris · Jul 6, 2020

I'm glad to see others can't grind this game either. It's a great game and I enjoy it, but after about 7-10 games, I'm usually ready to put it away until the next day. I don't know why either. It's a better made game than MTG but I play MTG more. Not much more, about 8-15 games, but still more. MTG frustrates me much more as well. Maybe it's playing two CCGs daily or maybe it's just that I lose interest after the daily rewards are complete.

Either way, I've found this game gets pretty stale after about 8 weeks which is a bit quicker, by around 2 weeks, for me than MTG. I'm hoping the new play modes give me more to do.

Ravishing · Jul 7, 2020

zzeris said:
I'm glad to see others can't grind this game either. It's a great game and I enjoy it, but after about 7-10 games, I'm usually ready to put it away until the next day. I don't know why either. It's a better made game than MTG but I play MTG more. Not much more, about 8-15 games, but still more. MTG frustrates me much more as well. Maybe it's playing two CCGs daily or maybe it's just that I lose interest after the daily rewards are complete.

Either way, I've found this game gets pretty stale after about 8 weeks which is a bit quicker, by around 2 weeks, for me than MTG. I'm hoping the new play modes give me more to do.

I have a few theories on it, trying to compare to Hearthstone which always seemed easier to grind out a ton of games.

1.) The reward structure doesn't want you to grind out games. Cards are so easy to get that you can almost play with everything day 1. A legendary in HS was a real time commitment and then after acquiring one, it always felt like a whole new slew of decks opened up that you could try. Of course this is only in theory... in actuality you played with the new legendary for a few games, realized it wasn't meta, then went back to a meta deck.

2.) Winning games only rewards experience, which if you're maxed out on the Region rewards, doesn't do anything for you except levels your Weekly Chest. In HS you acquire coins for each win up to a cap of like 30 wins for the day. And playing the game is a way to grind out those Legendaries & Epics. In this game the payoff for playing games is happening 1x per week instead of after each game.

3.) Hearthstone started with 9 (now 10) classes AND a neutral card set. This game has 7 Regions. Even though being able to combine regions offers up more possibilities, it "feels" like there is less. I actually think combining regions dilutes region identity a bit. This game does need to grow with a few more regions to feel a bit more diverse.

Maybe there are other things. But all of my ideas are centered around things outside the actual gameplay. More cards, regions, modes, and reward structures should fix a lot of it.

zzeris · Jul 7, 2020

Ravishing said:
I have a few theories on it, trying to compare to Hearthstone which always seemed easier to grind out a ton of games.

1.) The reward structure doesn't want you to grind out games. Cards are so easy to get that you can almost play with everything day 1. A legendary in HS was a real time commitment and then after acquiring one, it always felt like a whole new slew of decks opened up that you could try. Of course this is only in theory... in actuality you played with the new legendary for a few games, realized it wasn't meta, then went back to a meta deck.

2.) Winning games only rewards experience, which if you're maxed out on the Region rewards, doesn't do anything for you except levels your Weekly Chest. In HS you acquire coins for each win up to a cap of like 30 wins for the day. And playing the game is a way to grind out those Legendaries & Epics. In this game the payoff for playing games is happening 1x per week instead of after each game.

3.) Hearthstone started with 9 (now 10) classes AND a neutral card set. This game has 7 Regions. Even though being able to combine regions offers up more possibilities, it "feels" like there is less. I actually think combining regions dilutes region identity a bit. This game does need to grow with a few more regions to feel a bit more diverse.

Maybe there are other things. But all of my ideas are centered around things outside the actual gameplay. More cards, regions, modes, and reward structures should fix a lot of it.

I think you're exactly right on all of the above. I am maxed out on just about everything and playing beyond the weekly goal of a champion token is really a waste of time (goal oriented approach). Hearthstone had some extremely fun but meta restricting cards that took forever to nerf whereas Riot is really on top of their game. The only incredibly powerful card right now is Sejuana? Maybe Harrowing? I was worried Fizz would warp the environment and maybe eventually it will.

They've done an incredible job balancing the champions so that all of them have gotten some play. I'd say people like Mogwai have been a large part of that as well. The game is still smooth and feels better to play than any other on the market. It's just time for some new stuff.

Mahes · Jul 7, 2020

I have also maxed out on everything but rank. Rank just seems to not be worth the time. The Gauntlet helps. I had fun trying various one of decks but ransom hits hard on that variant of play. I won 4 max.

I have all the cards and 40+ Gems with A lot of wild cards. I even have 6 tokens waiting for the next expansion.

One thing that would help but would cost them some time and money would be to create either alternate art or Animated Heros/Legends. The animation could occur while cards are in play. Make them cost 5 wilds or 15k Gems to create. That would add a goal for players who have everything due to the ease of getting everything, without taking away from game play capability.

I still very much enjoy the game. I just recently heard a vocal line that made me spit my coffee. I thought at this point I had heard them all. If you have not heard Draven's reaction to Teemo landing on the board, it will pleasantly surprise you. I also just finished a Plunder game where I took a counter spell from my opponent. Loved using that spell despite not playing the faction. I did a Mind Blown Emote when I used it.

zzeris · Jul 7, 2020

Mahes said:
I have also maxed out on everything but rank. Rank just seems to not be worth the time. The Gauntlet helps. I had fun trying various one of decks but ransom hits hard on that variant of play. I won 4 max.

I have all the cards and 40+ Gems with A lot of wild cards. I even have 6 tokens waiting for the next expansion.

One thing that would help but would cost them some time and money would be to create either alternate art or Animated Heros/Legends. The animation could occur while cards are in play. Make them cost 5 wilds or 15k Gems to create. That would add a goal for players who have everything due to the ease of getting everything, without taking away from game play capability.

I still very much enjoy the game. I just recently heard a vocal line that made me spit my coffee. I thought at this point I had heard them all. If you have not heard Draven's reaction to Teemo landing on the board, it will pleasantly surprise you. I also just finished a Plunder game where I took a counter spell from my opponent. Loved using that spell despite not playing the faction. I did a Mind Blown Emote when I used it.

I haven't spent more than $15 early in the game to get the starter bundle and speed up getting a champion. I'm probably going to spend about $35 on a couple boards, card backs, and emotes just to support Riot.

Ravishing · Jul 7, 2020

I just spent $20 because I was tired of Arcade stuff.
Since I'm not spending money on cards it's still a ton cheaper buying cosmetics than I ever spent on HS (~$100 per expansion 3x in a year).

Mahes said:
I still very much enjoy the game. I just recently heard a vocal line that made me spit my coffee. I thought at this point I had heard them all. If you have not heard Draven's reaction to Teemo landing on the board, it will pleasantly surprise you.

I never heard this one so had to google it.... best interaction I've heard

Ravishing · Jul 7, 2020

Choose your champions, make your move, and be legendary in the League of Legends strategy card game: Legends of Runeterra.

playruneterra.com

Pilfered Goods nerfed to 3 cost.
Solitary Monk loses 1 attack, now a 3/3.

Labs are coming this patch.

Misc stuff

1.6 Patch preview:

Updates we’re currently working on include:

Adjustments to some of Heimerdinger’s associated cards (his bots).
Reworking discard units to increase their satisfaction and usability.
Adjustments to direct Nexus damage on cheap Noxus units.

Looks like Heimer and Crimson Disciple staring down some nerfs, which were 2 Units in my "Current Hates" a few posts up.

Valderen · Jul 7, 2020

I always enjoy reading their comments on why they change things, and what they hope to accomplish. It's a great insight into their vision for the game.

For example on Pilfered Goods and the Nab mechanic. They think the mechanic is fine, but understand it can be frustrating for the opponent, so the goal is for it to be played in dedicated Nab and Plunder decks and not thrown in every Bilgewater decks which I think is a great strategy, and I think going from 2 to 3 cost might just do that. It's good in a deck built around the draw mechanic, but not in every deck now.

I'm surprised at the Solitary Monk change, it's a strong card but I never really saw much complaining about it.

Change to Heimer will be welcome, I bet the Elusive Turret will be on 4 mana spells, probably other changes too since for the most part it's the only viable turret.

Crimson Disciple might require a change that makes it not auto-include in all Noxus decks but be stronger in actual self-damage decks with the other Crimson Cards and Vladimir.

Ravishing · Jul 7, 2020

Valderen said:
I always enjoy reading their comments on why they change things, and what they hope to accomplish. It's a great insight into their vision for the game.

For example on Pilfered Goods and the Nab mechanic. They think the mechanic is fine, but understand it can be frustrating for the opponent, so the goal is for it to be played in dedicated Nab and Plunder decks and not thrown in every Bilgewater decks which I think is a great strategy, and I think going from 2 to 3 cost might just do that. It's good in a deck built around the draw mechanic, but not in every deck now.

I'm surprised at the Solitary Monk change, it's a strong card but I never really saw much complaining about it.

Change to Heimer will be welcome, I bet the Elusive Turret will be on 4 mana spells, probably other changes too since for the most part it's the only viable turret.

Crimson Disciple might require a change that makes it not auto-include in all Noxus decks but be stronger in actual self-damage decks with the other Crimson Cards and Vladimir.

Solitary Monk doesn't see much complaining because it's mostly seen in 1 deck, any changes might make it near useless. It's going to really hurt Veimer since Monk is typically their first unit played. They always pass turns 1 & 2 then play monk and keep it alive with spells. The fact the deck passes turns 1 and 2 to play it seemed balanced, but hey, I won't complain. Elusive units need to be weaker overall. The recall mechanic is already a huge drawback though, so yes, I am surprised with the nerf actually. I've been grinding with Deep and Veimer counters Deep pretty damn hard, this is a nice buff to Deep. I'd actually be very concerned about Deep. Its finding a solid place in the meta atm and I'm surprised meta reports are listing it as B tier. I'm 2 wins from Masters with Deep, and I have exclusively played it since P4. I'm not grinding super hard either.

zzeris · Jul 7, 2020

Ravishing said:
Solitary Monk doesn't see much complaining because it's mostly seen in 1 deck, any changes might make it near useless. It's going to really hurt Veimer since Monk is typically their first unit played. They always pass turns 1 & 2 then play monk and keep it alive with spells. The fact the deck passes turns 1 and 2 to play it seemed balanced, but hey, I won't complain. Elusive units need to be weaker overall. The recall mechanic is already a huge drawback though, so yes, I am surprised with the nerf actually. I've been grinding with Deep and Veimer counters Deep pretty damn hard, this is a nice buff to Deep. I'd actually be very concerned about Deep. Its finding a solid place in the meta atm and I'm surprised meta reports are listing it as B tier. I'm 2 wins from Masters with Deep, and I have exclusively played it since P4. I'm not grinding super hard either.

Is your deep deck significantly different than previous ones? I honestly haven't played it in a while. I'm really enjoying Noxus variants and may need something different now. Changes to damage will probably crush Swain decks but with the new set and changes to Braum, I can see where disciple is too good. I haven't even played competitively since I maxed out on cards so my knowledge of the meta is really dated.

Ravishing · Jul 7, 2020

zzeris said:
Is your deep deck significantly different than previous ones? I honestly haven't played it in a while. I'm really enjoying Noxus variants and may need something different now. Changes to damage will probably crush Swain decks but with the new set and changes to Braum, I can see where disciple is too good. I haven't even played competitively since I maxed out on cards so my knowledge of the meta is really dated.

I adjust deep based on the meta, right now I'm running a slightly modified Mogwai list that has 2x riptides, which is great vs Anivia decks and also overwhelm/Darius. Before riptide I was using a variant with mists call. I might switch back since I'm not seeing Anivia much anymore

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zzeris · Jul 7, 2020

Ravishing said:
I adjust deep based on the meta, right now I'm running a slightly modified Mogwai list that has 2x riptides, which is great vs Anivia decks and also overwhelm/Darius. Before riptide I was using a variant with mists call. I might switch back since I'm not seeing Anivia much anymore

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Nice. I'm a bit surprised you don't run a singleton of Terror of the Tides. I know it's expensive in an expensive deck but it's won me a ton of games. No room? Usually get one from a Hunter?

Ravishing · Jul 7, 2020

zzeris said:
Nice. I'm a bit surprised you don't run a singleton of Terror of the Tides. I know it's expensive in an expensive deck but it's won me a ton of games. No room? Usually get one from a Hunter?

Strong card but not needed, too expensive, too many sea monsters loses you games. I favor tossing my entire deck ASAP. I like to add 1 or 2 glimpse for even faster Deep and can help deny a target to an Ez deck and/or can force a heal on Toad too. Most Deep decks at high rank don't run Terror (that I see), also most don't include Glimpse. I see Mists Call and various number of Grasps/Wails/Atrocity sometimes you don't even see the Hoarder. I've seen Beast Below instead of Abyssal too, but with Elusives back you kinda need the Abyssal.

I think Mogwai's version only had 3 Devour 2 Abyssal. I left those but added Hoarder instead of 2nd Atrocity.

zzeris · Jul 7, 2020

Ravishing said:
Strong card but not needed, too expensive, too many sea monsters loses you games. I favor tossing my entire deck ASAP. I like to add 1 or 2 glimpse for even faster Deep and can help deny a target to an Ez deck and/or can force a heal on Toad too. Most Deep decks at high rank don't run Terror (that I see), also most don't include Glimpse. I see Mists Call and various number of Grasps/Wails/Atrocity sometimes you don't even see the Hoarder. I've seen Beast Below instead of Abyssal too, but with Elusives back you kinda need the Abyssal.

I think Mogwai's version only had 3 Devour 2 Abyssal. I left those but added Hoarder instead of 2nd Atrocity.

Ok, good to know. It's been a while and I haven't seen too many in unranked play so wasn't sure what was the usual mix now. It makes a ton of sense though. Last time I played aggro just ate it alive but that was before the patch that killed Boomcrew.

Ravishing · Jul 7, 2020

Im going to try pushing to Master for the next hour or so, need 3 wins. Will stream it. I added Mist Call instead of Riptides. Will see how it goes. Faced 0 Anivia earlier today.

Edit: Stream over, took about 51 minutes, after losing 1 I think I went 4 wins in a row to seal it.
I replaced the 2x Riptide with 2x Mists Call. In theory Mist Call should help more vs Aggro, but I faced none.

In a couple spots I probably would have preferred riptide, but yea... hard to say what I prefer atm

Mahes · Jul 12, 2020

It was nice of them to bring Singleton back. I got the 7 game icon this time. Definitely more difficult to acquire given the random factor but there are certain deck types that are much stronger than others.

The Lab event is mehh. I guess they are just testing features with it. No string attached to playing it and it is very random. Certain champions are much stronger than others.

Ravishing · Jul 13, 2020

Dev response to a Reddit post, decent read:

Mahes · Jul 13, 2020

That was a really good post and an excellent response from Mobalytics. It is amazing how Online plays such a large part on what decks are played. I know I will check out the latest designs and then fine tune them or change them in ways that throw off opposing players expecting the deck they saw online. Sometimes it works and sometimes it does not. Some decks I really enjoy playing and always keep them in my inventory.

Ravishing · Jul 15, 2020

It's LOR day for the Spirit Blossom Twitch Rivals event and the official stream is absolute garbage. The saturation is cranked, the casters are bad, and the player audio is NOT muted which adds a lot of noise.

The casters have no idea how to play this game.

You can watch individual player streams for a better experience. However, I am getting a lot of entertainment out of how bad these casters are.

I believe it's EU now and NA starts at 5PM EST and it'll all end around 10PM EST

Chris · Jul 15, 2020

Ravishing said:
Dev response to a Reddit post, decent read:

That's one of the best dev responses I've seen. Acknowledge the problem, balance their viewpoint with the community viewpoint, say they want to fix it, praise the community and 3rd party websites.

Trying to think what Mark Rosewater would say over at MTG, probably some shit about how they designed the current set 3 years ago so they can't respond to feedback quickly, this set is not for you, we have to do lame shit for our imaginary new LGBTQQ2IAA++ audience, and how he did a shitty version of what the community wants 20 years ago and it didn't work but he learned some patronising lessons.

Legends of Runeterra - Card game by Riot Games

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