Let's build some pools!

Break · May 27, 2023

One of my neighbors down the block just built a new pool. Think it's the $1300, 14k gallon above ground you can order from Costco. It's amazing what putting something below grade does to the cost.

Say I was a peasant but could afford a $1300 pool. What if I dug a hole that was a few inches larger than the pool on each side, with some platic patio boards to make up any kind of gap placed around the sides. Genius cheap pool or madness?

Sludig · May 27, 2023

Break said:
One of my neighbors down the block just built a new pool. Think it's the $1300, 14k gallon above ground you can order from Costco. It's amazing what putting something below grade does to the cost.

Say I was a peasant but could afford a $1300 pool. What if I dug a hole that was a few inches larger than the pool on each side, with some platic patio boards to make up any kind of gap placed around the sides. Genius cheap pool or madness?

Along those same lines that's what I wonder. Neigh it's have above grounds that have a little sturdier sides and up year round. I'm sure after 5 plus years they might be trash, but if I can get something sturdy enough, then even paying 5k would be worth 4 years to me.

Break · May 27, 2023

Sludig said:
Along those same lines that's what I wonder. Neigh it's have above grounds that have a little sturdier sides and up year round. I'm sure after 5 plus years they might be trash, but if I can get something sturdy enough, then even paying 5k would be worth 4 years to me.

I'm just guessing but maybe one big threat is moisture and mold invading the outsides if they're not exposed to the sun, barring some solution to keep to dry and kill the mold. Probably can't just dump chemicals in open soil in most places too so maybe a concrete/rebar pit would be a bare minimum?

Kiroy · May 28, 2023

man reading through the pool talk in the home thread was annoying

In ground gunite/plaster pools are easy as hell. You need three main things and some ancillary. The three are Salt Water, a Copper Sulphate product like poolrx, and a UV light product you run your water through. Ancillary is don't have trees/landscape that dumpsters into your pool constantly, keep up on adding your acid, wash your filters, use a variable speed pump to save money, make sure you have an auto fill, and use a polaris 280 or better. This combination makes it near effortless. I don't sweep, I clean the salt cell twice a year (takes about an hour), put in a little acid every week (3 minutes) and I clean the filters twice a year (takes about an hour). I check chems a few times a year and may do some minor adjustments, but it's rare I have to. My power costs are probably 300-400 a year and it's filled with well water so that can vary depending on location.

Granted, I was able to get this all figured out because my buddy is a pool guy and helped me out a lot with setting my system up and knowledge.

Burns · May 28, 2023

Break said:
I'm just guessing but maybe one big threat is moisture and mold invading the outsides if they're not exposed to the sun, barring some solution to keep to dry and kill the mold. Probably can't just dump chemicals in open soil in most places too so maybe a concrete/rebar pit would be a bare minimum?

You can probably bury an above ground pool to about a foot deep, without much of a problem, but any more than that would need a proper retaining structure built into the earthen embankment. The water and liner of the pool is not nearly enough to hold it back and it will eventually collapse the pool during, say, the 5th or 6th heavy rain. Retaining walls are expensive, so that eats into your cost savings. You would also need to work out a proper drainage system, as part of the retaining wall system.

It should still be cheaper than a built-in pool, but they also make a semi-inground pool option, that includes reinforcement, to act as a retaining wall, up to a certain depth. They were (probably) made so, on houses with basements and crawlspaces, you can have a normal height deck coming off the house and stay level as it surrounds the pool.

I grew up around a few above ground and in-ground pools; as a kid, the main difference was the ability to dive into the in-ground because it was much easier to make a deep end. A friend's dad dug out one side of his above ground around a foot or so, but it was still a belly flop canon ball only pool (well, at 13 we could shallow dive it). We still had great fun in the above ground pools, but since you cant really customize the size or depth much, it seems kinda silly to go through the trouble of burying it.

Sludig · May 28, 2023

Burns said:
You can probably bury an above ground pool to about a foot deep, without much of a problem, but any more than that would need a proper retaining structure built into the earthen embankment. The water and liner of the pool is not nearly enough to hold it back and it will eventually collapse the pool during, say, the 5th or 6th heavy rain. Retaining walls are expensive, so that eats into your cost savings. You would also need to work out a proper drainage system, as part of the retaining wall system.

It should still be cheaper than a built-in pool, but they also make a semi-inground pool option, that includes reinforcement, to act as a retaining wall, up to a certain depth. They were (probably) made so, on houses with basements and crawlspaces, you can have a normal height deck coming off the house and stay level as it surrounds the pool.

I grew up around a few above ground and in-ground pools; as a kid, the main difference was the ability to dive into the in-ground because it was much easier to make a deep end. A friend's dad dug out one side of his above ground around a foot or so, but it was still a belly flop canon ball only pool (well, at 13 we could shallow dive it). We still had great fun in the above ground pools, but since you cant really customize the size or depth much, it seems kinda silly to go through the trouble of burying it.

Seems like other than shorter ladder/ deck, would maybe be have a 6 inch hole that you have all your sand or other packed dirt/ and to level vs creating a raised pad like a hot tub since I'm sure you don't just flop these down on the grass.

OU Ariakas · May 28, 2023

Kiroy said:
man reading through the pool talk in the home thread was annoying

In ground gunite/plaster pools are easy as hell. You need three main things and some ancillary. The three are Salt Water, a Copper Sulphate product like poolrx, and a UV light product you run your water through. Ancillary is don't have trees/landscape that dumpsters into your pool constantly, keep up on adding your acid, wash your filters, use a variable speed pump to save money, make sure you have an auto fill, and use a polaris 280 or better. This combination makes it near effortless. I don't sweep, I clean the salt cell twice a year (takes about an hour), put in a little acid every week (3 minutes) and I clean the filters twice a year (takes about an hour). I check chems a few times a year and may do some minor adjustments, but it's rare I have to. My power costs are probably 300-400 a year and it's filled with well water so that can vary depending on location.

Granted, I was able to get this all figured out because my buddy is a pool guy and helped me out a lot with setting my system up and knowledge.

I was absolutely adamant that we get the UV light cleaner which only 1 of 8 companies included in their first bid even thought it was only $1500 extra. Every time I asked a company how much it was to include it they all RAVED about how great they were at reducing the cleaning and amount of chemicals I would have to add. It made me wonder why they just didn't include it in the first place.

Hateyou · May 28, 2023

TheBeagle said:
You just keep replacing or fixing it. I don't do liner pools but a friend had one that we were in every weekend of every summer when we were in our 20's and he had to mess with that liner every couple years it seemed like. He was a pool guy so he took good care of it.

My previous pool was vinyl liner and it wasn’t bad. We had to replace it one year because it was 13 or 14 years old and it starts tearing. We got an extra thick liner when we replaced it. That was 13 years ago and it’s still fine. It’s a salt water pool, I don’t know if having less chlorine in it helps it last longer but other than the replacement itself there were zero liner problems over a 26 year period. It cost ~$3k to replace it in 2010 which wasn’t bad. I imagine the price is double that now though.

Burns · May 28, 2023

Sludig said:
Seems like other than shorter ladder/ deck, would maybe be have a 6 inch hole that you have all your sand or other packed dirt/ and to level vs creating a raised pad like a hot tub since I'm sure you don't just flop these down on the grass.

I am not sure what all you can get away with for putting under the pool. One friend's mom lived in a trailer, out in the boonies, but also had a full size above ground pool. I don't remember seeing anything but weeds around the base of it; so I would assume they just plopped it down on the ground and put some concrete blocks/bricks under the pump.

Kiroy · May 28, 2023

OU Ariakas said:
I was absolutely adamant that we get the UV light cleaner which only 1 of 8 companies included in their first bid even thought it was only $1500 extra. Every time I asked a company how much it was to include it they all RAVED about how great they were at reducing the cleaning and amount of chemicals I would have to add. It made me wonder why they just didn't include it in the first place.

Ya, if you don't use a chelated copper product start now, poolrx is the expensive version, bluerayxl is the same but cheaper. I should have also mentioned I do use tabs in the winter, probably one every three or four weeks. It's cold enough so nothings going to happen but it is a good way to get conditioner back into your pool that splashed out the previous summer. And even though I don't have any visible signs of anything, I do have a bucket of powdered chrorine and in the spring right before the salt cells kick in around the time i'm about to clean the filters for the summer, I shock the pool and use a small amount of phosphate remover (especially if it was a smoky summer from fires). Both my buckets of chlorine i've had for over 4 years now and they're just now getting low.

Frenzied Wombat · May 28, 2023

The two pool builders I spoke to told me to stay the fuck away from a salt water pool because that was one of the first things I said I wanted. They said it’s a maintenance hassle but most of all the salt will eat away at various materials, and it limits material selection as a result. They both said to go for some sort of low chlorine ozone type system.

Sanrith Descartes · May 28, 2023

Cutlery said:
View attachment 475153

I can post the blueprints if you want.

I not an expert but I don't think the water is supposed to be brown. Is this a Vanguard pool?

Sanrith Descartes · May 28, 2023

Break said:
One of my neighbors down the block just built a new pool. Think it's the $1300, 14k gallon above ground you can order from Costco. It's amazing what putting something below grade does to the cost.

Say I was a peasant but could afford a $1300 pool. What if I dug a hole that was a few inches larger than the pool on each side, with some platic patio boards to make up any kind of gap placed around the sides. Genius cheap pool or madness?

Those are quite common it seems up on Long Island. The get a big above ground pool and bury it about halfway into the dirt and then build a deck around it.

Cutlery · May 28, 2023

Sanrith Descartes said:
I not an expert but I don't think the water is supposed to be brown. Is this a Vanguard pool?

Pool doesn't get drained all winter. At that point, it was still early in the spring.

Nowadays, it's straight up pond. Liner's fucked, it's mostly drained, about 9 winter's worth of leaves in there.

Let's just say after i got divorced and was barely hanging on to the house, the last thing I gave a shit about was the pool.

Captain Suave · May 28, 2023

Burns said:
You can probably bury an above ground pool to about a foot deep, without much of a problem, but any more than that would need a proper retaining structure built into the earthen embankment. The water and liner of the pool is not nearly enough to hold it back and it will eventually collapse the pool during, say, the 5th or 6th heavy rain. Retaining walls are expensive, so that eats into your cost savings. You would also need to work out a proper drainage system, as part of the retaining wall system.

I've seen above-ground pools fully buried for years without issue.

Edit: You're right, there are specify types of pools designed to be fully or partially buried.

Is It Safe To Bury an Above Ground Pool?

As long as it's the correct TYPE of above ground pool, then it is safe to bury; even if you bury it completely. Find out how to tell which is which here!

blog.royalswimmingpools.com

Burns · May 28, 2023

Captain Suave said:
I've seen above-ground pools fully buried for years without issue.

Edit: You're right, there are specify types of pools designed to be fully or partially buried.

Is It Safe To Bury an Above Ground Pool?

As long as it's the correct TYPE of above ground pool, then it is safe to bury; even if you bury it completely. Find out how to tell which is which here!

blog.royalswimmingpools.com

Funny story: I read that exact "blog" before I posted, but they sell those pools though, so wasn't sure how biased it was.

Frenzied Wombat · May 28, 2023

Cad said:
I've got a question for pool builders, how come nobody shades the pool/surrounding area? Even with retractable shades. I can't be out in the sun for any period of time without being covered up so I either wear long sleeve swim shirts and a big floppy hat and look like a retard or I stay in the shaded areas or I swim at night.

If there would be shades so I could swim in the shade during the day it would be perfect. But no place has this outside of some Vegas pools or indoor pools. Why not?

While looking through hundreds of pool pics, there was one of a fancy hotel that had what looked like a water feature/island of some type in the center, but it would deploy a retractable shade that looked like it was made out of parachute material that would shade about a 15x15 area. I’m sure you could get the highland park edition.

Kiroy · May 28, 2023

Frenzied Wombat said:
The two pool builders I spoke to told me to stay the fuck away from a salt water pool because that was one of the first things I said I wanted. They said it’s a maintenance hassle but most of all the salt will eat away at various materials, and it limits material selection as a result. They both said to go for some sort of low chlorine ozone type system.

If you've ever stored your chlorine tabs anywhere near metal you'll have noticed how corrosive just the gasses are.

I'm not an expert and i'm sure there's math out there, but with your added salt you get to lower your free/total average chlorine because it's constant. There's probably some science corrosion formula but maybe it's a wash, or close to a wash. We're re-plastering our pool this winter so i'll ask those guys about lifespan effects, but if I go from my pebble being a 30 year product to a 25 year product and get to have salt i'd take it. For me it's that much easier to maintain and feels so much better on the eyes/hair/skin. Zero chlorine smell or feel even when eyes opened underwater a lot.

Cad · May 28, 2023

Frenzied Wombat said:
While looking through hundreds of pool pics, there was one of a fancy hotel that had what looked like a water feature/island of some type in the center, but it would deploy a retractable shade that looked like it was made out of parachute material that would shade about a 15x15 area. I’m sure you could get the highland park edition.

Oh I have no doubt it CAN be done, what I'm wondering is why more people don't do it. You people have heard of skin cancer?

Frenzied Wombat · May 28, 2023

Cad said:
Oh I have no doubt it CAN be done, what I'm wondering is why more people don't do it. You people have heard of skin cancer?

I can't speak for others, but for me when I'm in the pool it's because I want to take some sun without feeling like I'm slow roasting. If I want some shade I sit by the pool under a patio umbrella or pergola or whatever. Usually, when it gets cloudy is when I get *out* of the pool. And yes, I'll probably get skin cancer one day. Had bad skin well into my twenties, and the only miracle cure was sunlight and salt water, so I basically cooked myself while young. Anyways, at least for me I would rarely use such a contraption, and my guess is the cost to install something that could deal with wind shear, be retractable, and cover a large enough area is too prohibitive to those that would make use of it.

Let's build some pools!

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