Let's build some pools!

TheBeagle · May 26, 2023

Moving the pool discussions from the home buying thread to here. I've been in the pool biz in north Texas since 1999 with a few detours out of it along the way. I started off on the weekly service side of things and transitioned to construction three years ago. Last year I got 51 pools plastered.

I'll start the thread off by doing a step by step walkthrough of a simple pool build start to finish. All pool related questions are welcome.

Fogel · May 26, 2023

Needs a more clever title, 2/10 will not post

Cutlery · May 26, 2023

TheBeagle said:
Moving the pool discussions from the home buying thread to here. I've been in the pool biz in north Texas since 1999 with a few detours out of it along the way. I started off on the weekly service side of things and transitioned to construction three years ago. Last year I got 51 pools plastered.

I'll start the thread off by doing a step by step walkthrough of a simple pool build start to finish. All pool related questions are welcome.

I've got a 20'x40' in ground, 13' deep on the deep end for a diving board.

How much to fill that fucker in?

TheBeagle · May 26, 2023

Fogel said:
Needs a more clever title, 2/10 will not post

This is why I never start new threads.

TheBeagle · May 26, 2023

Cutlery said:
I've got a 20'x40' in ground, 13' deep on the deep end for a diving board.

How much to fill that fucker in?

Dr.Retarded · May 26, 2023

TheBeagle said:
Moving the pool discussions from the home buying thread to here. I've been in the pool biz in north Texas since 1999 with a few detours out of it along the way. I started off on the weekly service side of things and transitioned to construction three years ago. Last year I got 51 pools plastered.

I'll start the thread off by doing a step by step walkthrough of a simple pool build start to finish. All pool related questions are welcome.

I've run commercial jobs in the past for pool facilities and I have kind of a macro view. I know enough about the various steps no different than building a house, upfit, strip center, etc, but by no means do I know the finer points of installation.

If you have any of the nuances, I'd be happy to hear. It's always great to have an opportunity to learn more about construction.

I'm very curious as to what your margins are. We looked at buying a pool company up in the DFW area, but the books for the business wasn't exactly stellar. Mind you I wasn't the one making the financial decisions on it, but the individual making that decision it's more than qualified. Last I heard pool equipment itself is massive lead times and a huge spike in price no different than HVAC.

Is that still the case?

TheBeagle · May 26, 2023

Dr.Retarded said:
I've run commercial jobs in the past for pool facilities and I have kind of a macro view. I know enough about the various steps no different than building a house, upfit, strip center, etc, but by no means do I know the finer points of installation.

If you have any of the nuances, I'd be happy to hear. It's always great to have an opportunity to learn more about construction.

I'm very curious as to what your margins are. We looked at buying a pool company up in the DFW area, but the books for the business wasn't exactly stellar. Mind you I wasn't the one making the financial decisions on it, but the individual making that decision it's more than qualified. Last I heard pool equipment itself is massive lead times and a huge spike in price no different than HVAC.

Is that still the case?

Our scale is large enough that we have two warehouses full of equipment. We buy straight from the manufacturer by the truckload. Zero lead time on our pools but yes, I hear horror stories all the time about people going with a smaller company, getting it built, then having to wait 6 months to finish because they couldn't get the equipment. I'm not privy to the books but we're told margins are about 7% after all is said and done and everyone is paid. I think it's a little higher than that.

Dr.Retarded · May 26, 2023

TheBeagle said:
Our scale is large enough that we have two warehouses full of equipment. We buy straight from the manufacturer by the truckload. Zero lead time on our pools but yes, I hear horror stories all the time about people going with a smaller company, getting it built, then having to wait 6 months to finish because they couldn't get the equipment. I'm not privy to the books but we're told margins are about 7% after all is said and done and everyone is paid. I think it's a little higher than that.

I can't remember but do you just do just commercial or residential as well?

TheBeagle · May 26, 2023

Dr.Retarded said:
I can't remember but do you just do just commercial or residential as well?

Just residential.

Dr.Retarded · May 26, 2023

TheBeagle said:
Just residential.

I would imagine that has its own share of headaches. I guess that's why I like commercial even though you might have to deal with decision by committee, it's not a homeowner. That's not to say that some homeowners aren't a wonderful to deal with or singular business owners, but understand age I can't imagine the world is made it any easier.

Burren · May 26, 2023

Also curious about the cost to fill in an ugly pool, rather than try to rebuild one.

Cutlery · May 26, 2023

TheBeagle said:

I can post the blueprints if you want.

TheBeagle · May 26, 2023

Cutlery said:
View attachment 475153

I can post the blueprints if you want.

Does it even have a shallow end? Most shallow ends are 3'6" and going from 3.5' to 13' deep is going to be super steep with those dimensions.

Anyway, I build em, I don't fill em in. If you can get a dump truck back there then post "Fill dirt wanted" signs around, call some excavation companies and tell em you will take any fill dirt they need to get rid of and it might not cost you anything.

Cutlery · May 26, 2023

TheBeagle said:
Does it even have a shallow end? Most shallow ends are 3'6" and going from 3.5' to 13' deep is going to be super steep with those dimensions.

Anyway, I build em, I don't fill em in. If you can get a dump truck back there then post "Fill dirt wanted" signs around, call some excavation companies and tell em you will take any fill dirt they need to get rid of and it might not cost you anything.

Yep, 3'6", I think the deep end is 8-9', but then there's a "cone" that's 13'6" under the diving board.

Thing is such a fucking pain in the ass. The one year it was open, 55 gallons of chlorine to clear the water. The cover was broken when we moved in and would be 10k to replace, needs a new liner which is 5-6k.... Fuck that.

TheBeagle · May 26, 2023

Cutlery said:
Yep, 3'6", I think the deep end is 8-9', but then there's a "cone" that's 13'6" under the diving board.

Thing is such a fucking pain in the ass. The one year it was open, 55 gallons of chlorine to clear the water. The cover was broken when we moved in and would be 10k to replace, needs a new liner which is 5-6k.... Fuck that.

Ya if you have a big monstrosity like that you have to keep it dialed in. Once it gets away from you, good fucking luck. Don't ever buy anything with a vinyl liner.

Captain Suave · May 26, 2023

Cutlery said:
Yep, 3'6", I think the deep end is 8-9', but then there's a "cone" that's 13'6" under the diving board.

Thing is such a fucking pain in the ass. The one year it was open, 55 gallons of chlorine to clear the water. The cover was broken when we moved in and would be 10k to replace, needs a new liner which is 5-6k.... Fuck that.

Buddy working on my house right now used to run a demo company. He says +/- $5k for the job, if they quote close to $10k you're getting screwed. Break down the top 18'' of the rim, punch 6'' holes every 4 feet the bottom, throw the debris inside, and fill and compact.

Frenzied Wombat · May 26, 2023

I might hit you up soon.. I was gathering info/quotes right before COVID for a pool, and had just received an eye watering 300K quote that blew waaay past my budget, which of course the architect ignored in his grandiose design. Before I even had a chance to ask them to remove the two story semi-attached sundeck and replace fancy Brazil wood with USA wood and get back to me with a reasonable price, lockdown clownworld arrived and it's been shelved since. Still debating whether I'll be a clownworld resident long enough to enjoy a pool, but meanwhile I'm getting bored of mowing weeds in my giant empty backyard.

Dr.Retarded · May 26, 2023

Frenzied Wombat said:
which of course the architect ignored in his grandiose design...

Haha, par for the course. I've never dealt with an architect who has ever been conscientious of budgets. Even if you try to do a design build as the GC, it's still a pain in the ass wrangling them in, but that's about as close as you can get. Haven't done ground up stuff in a while and maybe that's changed a bit, and perhaps they consider things like budgets nowadays, but based on my experience probably not.

I always thought an architect that had real field experience, and marketing themselves to design things within budget, working in tandem with a reliable GC, could make a mint.

I'm sure there are successful companies doing this, but you'd be surprised every set of blueprints is over engineered inspect to make a potential project totally unfeasible by budget. That's not even including dumbass designs that simply will not work in the field.

Frenzied Wombat · May 26, 2023

Dr.Retarded said:
Haha, par for the course. I've never dealt with an architect who has ever been conscientious of budgets. Even if you try to do a design build as the GC, it's still a pain in the ass wrangling them in, but that's about as close as you can get. Haven't done ground up stuff in a while and maybe that's changed a bit, and perhaps they consider things like budgets nowadays, but based on my experience probably not.

I always thought an architect that had real field experience, and marketing themselves to design things within budget, working in tandem with a reliable GC, could make a mint.

I'm sure there are successful companies doing this, but you'd be surprised every set of blueprints is over engineered inspect to make a potential project totally unfeasible by budget. That's not even including dumbass designs that simply will not work in the field.

I spent money on a dedicated pool builder architect because I didn't want a "catalog pool", or what 99% of them seem to build, which I call "Texas Tuscan". I also figured separating the design from the build reduced conflict of interest. I told the architect "modern pool with spa, rectangle shape, sloped entry, home automation compatibility for pool gear, stone/wood decking, and an outdoor changing room with shower/toilet -MAX 200k". Dude came back with some Dubai tier design and a 3D youtube video rendered tour. The "changing room" basically became a two story structure with spiral staircase-- ground floor the bathroom/BBQ area and 2nd story a glass fenced sundeck/lounge. The wood he chose for fencing was some crazy expensive wood. The only good news I got before it got COVID-paused was that the stupid 2 story structure probably comprised almost 100K of the cost alone, because of safety/load/permit issues involved with its construction, which means I could still probably get what I want within budget if the architect listened to me.
The architect did work with pool builders-- after he was done with the design he gave me a list of four he recommended for a quote. But simply put, the guy just went buck wild with the two story structure and materials selection.

TheBeagle · May 26, 2023

Frenzied Wombat said:
I might hit you up soon.. I was gathering info/quotes right before COVID for a pool, and had just received an eye watering 300K quote that blew waaay past my budget, which of course the architect ignored in his grandiose design. Before I even had a chance to ask them to remove the two story semi-attached sundeck and replace fancy Brazil wood with USA wood and get back to me with a reasonable price, lockdown clownworld arrived and it's been shelved since. Still debating whether I'll be a clownworld resident long enough to enjoy a pool, but meanwhile I'm getting bored of mowing weeds in my giant empty backyard.

Now is the time to buy if you have cash. Things are slowed down a lot, sale guys are getting desperate.

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Let's build some pools!

TheBeagle

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