Mad Men

weak ending

If it hadn't been for Megan telling him to go and Roger icing him by leaving him in the office all day, I doubt it would have gone like that. I thought it was very funny how shocked Don was that everyone was wandering in late and basically nothing was being done. SCDP is treading water and everyone knows it, but they're also profiting wildly from their mediocrity.

What surprised me most was Joan. She has always been on Don's side, and it was very surprising to see her so against him returning.

i think you forgot the part of season 6 where don went rogue, lost jaguar, and told joan she's better than them. even though she slept with the fat old guy to get the account

it woulda been cool to see don, roger, pirate guy, fat TV guy, the ghost of lane, and pete start a new firm and kick SC&P's ass, but I guess instead we'll see don claw his way back to authority in his firm, realize its all meaningless, and then move out west and re-invent himself again as a hollywood guy with megan, probably after she gets a close call with the manson family

I didn't forget Jaguar at all, but Don was the only one who *didn't* want Joan to prostitute herself.

Don made the correct call with Jaguar; it's absolutely unfathomable to me how she is still angry about it. The car was a dog, the account was a dog and not only did Don fix the mess he made, by landing an even bigger account to replace it but he was also the only one who acted like a decent human being of the lot of them.

Honestly, only Roger's reaction. and the Dweeb who wants a computer, felt normal and rational given their characters. Everyone else felt like the show's narrative needed a certain set of circumstances so that's what the characters said.

I disagree, mainly because I've been in that kind of office environment before. Everyone is defending their turf. Don's absence left a gaping hole in SC&P and everyone staked out new territory. The agency has moved on without him, and bringing him back in upsets the apple cart. Don is still an industry titan, and his presence is going to squeeze people in ways they don't necessarily want. SC&P is making money hand over fist, but they're also a big, soft ad agency that isn't doing anything groundbreaking anymore. Everyone has gotten comfortable with mediocrity.

The only thing that makes Joan's behavior somewhat understandable to me (beyond residual Jaguar anger) is that she has managed the whole Littlefinger/chaos-is-a-ladder thing quite well and risen even higher since Don left. In many ways, she has more to lose than anyone by seeing Don return. Even Lou.

Oh that part makes sense, if anyone is going to be marginalized it's Joan. It's kind of her entire character. Joan gets fucked for other people's profit. Even literally one time! Joan's no dummy, she's got something to protect and business is business. Don's a threat to her not out of personal enmity (I still think if they could avoid killing each other, Don + Joan = conquer the world power couple... but Don is just not equipped to handle Joan, and Don knows it) but just because Don is what he is.

Don fucks women who are still children, and Joan was practically born 25. Every single woman Don has been with is child-like in some way. He wouldn't know what to do with Joan (except maybe ask her to slap him in the face).

Real fucking downer of an episode, but it had some really great lines.

"Now you're facing some very stiff competition but you might just be the most dishonest man I've ever worked with" -- lol
"Yes, well, that blouse says she likes everyone" -- LOL

Betty is just such a hillarious cunt. I bet her kids wish they had a real daddy. The belt is kinder than that emotional warfare bullshit that betty wages on her own children.

Heylel_sl said:

I disagree, mainly because I've been in that kind of office environment before. Everyone is defending their turf. Don's absence left a gaping hole in SC&P and everyone staked out new territory. The agency has moved on without him, and bringing him back in upsets the apple cart. Don is still an industry titan, and his presence is going to squeeze people in ways they don't necessarily want. SC&P is making money hand over fist, but they're also a big, soft ad agency that isn't doing anything groundbreaking anymore. Everyone has gotten comfortable with mediocrity.

The only thing that makes Joan's behavior somewhat understandable to me (beyond residual Jaguar anger) is that she has managed the whole Littlefinger/chaos-is-a-ladder thing quite well and risen even higher since Don left. In many ways, she has more to lose than anyone by seeing Don return. Even Lou.

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The only reason I disagree is because Joan's climb wasn't a byproduct of Don leaving; it was a byproduct of Pete going to California and not bitching about her handling Avon. The only one who has directly gained ground due to Don's absence, really, is the Dweeb--which is why I thought it was understandable that he'd be pissy about Don coming back. Without Don, him and Roger are pretty much the prime contenders for shot callers, and I think he smells blood in the water with Roger (Because of how roger is essentially disillusioned with life right now). The Dweeb specifically got Lou, it seems, to get creativeoutof management (He essentially said so at the meeting)--so I can understand his motivations with putting a leash on Don.

Joan though; nothing about her new powers in the office has to do with management. It's all stature from accounts. The only real connection I can see is that the Dweeb guy is the one who is trail blazing for her, so she's backing him up. But that feels like a stretch considering Joan has always shown some pretty extreme loyalty and Don has been her bread and butter for a decade now, I just don't see her tossing him under the bus to back some douche who gave her one helping hand. But I could be wrong (I mean, I understand what you're saying; I'm just not sure, given the character, I agree with it.)

The one who I really didn't get was Peggy. That seemed completely ridiculous given the situation with Lou and her essentially being shit on since Don left.

Yeah, Peggy going over there and shitting all on his face struck me sort of as... huh?

Otherwise... well, feels bad man. But it is not very hard to believe that given these sets of circumstances Don bends the knee. It's a line out of his fight with Megan that I think is the most telling in the entire episode. "I've been good! There are no other women and I haven't even been drinking that much!"

I'm not sure if Don has decided to do pennance or what. But he's not an idiot, he knows that everyone in that room is hostile. He knows that the stipulations they've put on him are just a trap for them to get rid of him and not have to pay him. He made a choice. I take it at face value when roger tells him, "That's very nice of them. They're trying very hard to make it at least sound like it isn't a demotion." I think part of it is Don sincerely trying to Man UpT

The whole Megan scene was harder for me to swallow than the office politics of it all. That part DID seem a little bit forced. Of course, Megan is basically an self centered idiot with a pretty face and a gap tooth, so I guess it's not that hard to swallow.

Peggy still has no idea that Ted volunteered to go to California. She doesn't realize that Don gave up his spot out there, probably ruining his marriage in order to save Ted's. She's obviously still carrying a torch for Ted, and is focusing all that rage at Don.

I predict we'll see that change very quickly as she's forced to take sides between Don and Lou (who obviously has no respect at all for her).

Yeah, thinking back on the meeting and Don's reaction, I have to believe that Don has a plan in mind, that he went in there understanding what was going to happen in a roundabout way. idk, we'll see in a few episodes how this shakes out.

Joan's reaction was surprising. She has always had a kind of closeness with Don, so the idea that she would be so against him was surprising. And based on what? That he hurt the business? Peggy was kind of expected, she is pissed because don left her sitting here in the monument to mediocrity that SC&P has become. And working for fucking Lou. Lou is a douchebag.

Over/under on how many episodes Lou has left? I'm thinking about 3.

Iannis_sl said:

But he's not an idiot, he knows that everyone in that room is hostile. He knows that the stipulations they've put on him are just a trap for them to get rid of him and not have to pay him.

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And I think that's why Don took the job without a fight. He got what he wanted: He forced SC&P's hand and made them admit he's too valuable to lose to a competitor. They may have put him on a leash, but by admitting that, he and they both know that it's a bluff waiting to be called, otherwise they would've just bought him out and been done with it (or just kept him on paid leave). But, most importantly, Don no longer is in limbo. He finally has some control back in his life, even if that means either being Lou's bitch or burning SC&P to the ground to find work elsewhere.

Iannis_sl said:

The whole Megan scene was harder for me to swallow than the office politics of it all. That part DID seem a little bit forced. Of course, Megan is basically an self centered idiot with a pretty face and a gap tooth, so I guess it's not that hard to swallow.

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I think Megan's anger is understandable. Don made a decision to move to California without consulting her, forced her to quit her job, and right when she started to get excited about the prospect of acting in Hollywood, Don pulledthatrug out from under her and told her they were staying. Megan moved anyways, and the idea that Don would have to chose between her and his job certainly hung in the air, and now she finds out his job wasn't really even in contention?

Not only that, but Megan was actually making a name for herself in New York and is now literally having to beg to get work in Hollywood. While much of that is undoubtedly her fault, it's not hard for her to go back to the fact that she quit her successful job for Don, and now she finds out that Don couldn't make the same choice for her and would rather lie about it. He made it pretty clear where she stands - he'd rather sit in New York hoping for a job he no longer had than be in California with the wife he does.

Trollface_sl said:

That is remarkable I think. Why ISN'T Don having an affair?

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50 Shades of Draper even weirded HIM out a little bit.

Plus he's always been a little bit insecure about being such a man-whore. Was it season 2 or was it season 3 with the wife of the bigtime moviestar insult comic?

TheBeagle_sl said:

Over/under on how many episodes Lou has left? I'm thinking about 3.

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Midseason finale is my guess. It's pretty clear by now that the arc of the first half will be Don returning to SC&P, and there's simply no way to do that with Lou in the picture. This episode might have made us think Don will be reporting to Lou, but I don't see that sticking no matter what Cutler says.

Iannis_sl said:

50 Shades of Draper even weirded HIM out a little bit.

Plus he's always been a little bit insecure about being such a man-whore. Was it season 2 or was it season 3 with the wife of the bigtime moviestar insult comic?

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I think it was Sally catching him, that fucked him up ad made him want to straighten his shit up, even if only a little. I doubt it has much to do with Megan.

The thing to remember with Peggy is she felt that Don got too much credit for her work. Remember she wasn't exactly thrilled when the two firms merged to lure in GM. You'd think she'd consider Don preferable to Lou, who doesn't even think highly enough of her work to want credit for it, but she's too far along to becoming a shrew to look at it that as such.

And if Peggy is frustrated with Lou's lack of ambition for quality creative, there's no way in hell Don is gonna be able to choke those same frustrations back for very long.