Making a Murderer (Netflix) - New info

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Brand_sl said:
I'm wondering if the Kratz guy even watched the documentary...Some of the points he raised are just wrong. Of course, anyone who watched it can point to at least four occasions where he lied to get convictions, or to muddy the waters.

Here is the reddit thread that freaks me out a little...

An alternate theory continued [Spoilers] : MakingaMurderer
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A lot of this is possible, but due to the non-investigation or cover-up/framing by the police, the constant argument of "well if not Avery, then who?" will be paramount because there's no evidence of anyone else, because the police didn't investigate it properly. It's a huge catch-22 and laypersons who don't understand the legal system and the presumption of innocence throw up their hands and say "I guess he did it, there's no one else... "
 
Kaige

Kaige

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Finally watched this after you guys mentioned it. That shit got super slow and should've been condensed, but definitely some crazy shit in there.

I really can't stand the Helbauch brother.
 
Fedor

Fedor

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Kaige_sl said:
I really can't stand the Helbauch brother.
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Our Distinguished Graduates

Mike copy.jpg
 
Kaige

Kaige

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Thanks for helping me justify my hatred lol.


Wtf was going on with Brendan's mom in the street after the guilty verdict? Was that a reporter harassing her?
 
Caal

Caal

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This show will rip you out of your naiveness real quick. What they do to that kid was absolutely bone chilling, and it isn't just one guy. That retarded 16 year old has what, 4 different old fuckers all take turns handing him a grenade? That was hard to watch.

There were a surprising amount of people that couldn't give a great answer to different questions. Someone mentioned the two hunters, one of which goes right out of his way to implicate Steve, and the other one goes all FUCK HIM HE GOT WHAT HE HAD A'COMIN after the conviction. The ex bf being able to guess the password to her cell account, the brother doing the same thing. That seems more than a bit odd to me.

Anyway, cool show.
 
ShakyJake

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I had never heard of this trial until this series and was hoping for a happy ending where he sued the county for billions. Oh well.

Anyway, mind blown. I realize that the documentary is taking a position of the innocence of Steve Avery, but given what was shown I cannot fathom how a jury could convict him. There was absolutely no doubt that some shady shit went down. The fact that the Manitowoc police was there rooting around when there was a conflict of interest should have been enough to throw the case out, right? Even the judges seemed sketchy but, again, the film may have been shot in a way to make it seem that way.

Regarding Brendan -- that shit makes NO sense. You have a retard confess to something with ZERO physical evidence backing it up and yet they convict him? How is this even possible? I'm reminded of a few years ago when some dude confessed to the killing of JonBen?t Ramsey. They figured out real quick that he didn't do it -- definitely didn't just take his word for it.

Jive Turkey_sl said:
How has nobody mentioned this yet? Hot diggity!
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The camera guy noticed too. A lot.
 
Ossoi

Ossoi

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ShakyJake_sl said:
I realize that the documentary is taking a position of the innocence of Steve Avery, but given what was shown I cannot fathom how a jury could convict him.
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Yeah exactly, the prosecution is meant to prove beyond all reasonable doubt and based on the documentary there is no way they eliminated all doubt from my mind.
 
popsicledeath

popsicledeath

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ShakyJake_sl said:
I realize that the documentary is taking a position of the innocence of Steve Avery.... Even the judges seemed sketchy but, again, the film may have been shot in a way to make it seem that way.
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I dunno. I see a lot of people claiming bias film making, but it seemed pretty straightforward to me. I know they can edit shit to seem how they want, but nobody who participated said they felt misrepresented that I've seen. And they asked the DA, Sheriff and Victim's family repeatedly to participate and they all refused. I didn't feel they ever took the position Steven Avery was innocent so much as just exposing a fucked up system that sure makes you wonder about it. Just like people are saying it was clearly bias because they only interviewed the one excused juror who has some serious doubts, but again, apparently they've asked other jurors to participate and none would because they all apparently made some sort of pact to never discuss anything that went along with their deliberations. If they really wanted to have been bias they would have been pointing the finger at all the other potential suspects instead of just basically showing public records and interviewing the people that agreed to participate.
 
Voyce

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I watched it, I'm inclined to believe (speculatively) he may well be guilty, and that regardless he was framed. I do feel the documentary was so strongly slanted to one side, making it hard not to see the other side and it might simply be because the had so much access to the defense and all the facts came together and that's simply the narrative the film makers saw. However, regardless of any of that: even if he is guilty, I also believe there's significant possibility he was framed to ensure a conviction.

I splurged on the series with the woman, last week all day, what I cannot understand is, where is the mattress? If we're to believe the narrative presented by the prosecutors there needs to either be a missing mattress/destroyed/replaced, a mattress that was tampered with making it impossible to recover evidence, or a mattress covered with evidence. Did they ever mention a mattress? I don't get it.


I never read Kiss the Girls, is it like word for word like that kid's confession?
 
ShakyJake

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Voyce_sl said:
I splurged on the series with the woman, last week all day, what I cannot understand is, where is the mattress? If were to believe the narrative presented there needs to either be a missing mattress/destroyed, a mattress that was tampered with making it impossible to recover evidence, or a mattress covered with evidence. Did they ever mention a mattress? I don't get it.
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I'm pretty sure they said that Theresa's DNA was never found in Avery's trailer nor the garage other than the magic bullet.
 
Chanur

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I guess I am the only one that doesn't think he did it. I more suspect the ex boyfriend or one of the random hunters. The lack of DNA in the supposed kill site and the fact the body was in the car just really screams unlikely with the prosecutions narrative. It took 18 searches to find bullets and keys in plain sight? Really? The whole thing is a sham.
 
Gravel

Gravel

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I don't think he did it either. Mostly due to the fact that he's functionally retarded and somehow a mastermind at covering up a murder. The only physical evidence was stuff that could be planted (I don't know enough about the "sweat found on the car hood" thing to comment); blood in the car but no fingerprints, no blood anywhere at the scene of the supposed crime, etc.

I think the ex-boyfriend should've been suspect #1. The guy has an apparently amazing memory (he remembers her sister's birthdays), but can't rememberwhat time of dayhe saw her the last time he went to her house. And they weren't even asking a time, just "morning, afternoon, evening." Are you shitting me? I have a feeling he killed her and the Sheriff's office saw it as an opportunity to get rid of a lawsuit that would've bankrupted the county. It also gets rid of the potential for several of them to be looking at criminal prosecutions for gross misconduct during Avery's rape conviction and then the 1995 events.
 
ShakyJake

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Elurin_sl said:
I don't think he did it either. Mostly due to the fact that he's functionally retarded and somehow a mastermind at covering up a murder. The only physical evidence was stuff that could be planted (I don't know enough about the "sweat found on the car hood" thing to comment); blood in the car but no fingerprints, no blood anywhere at the scene of the supposed crime, etc.
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And the keys hadonlySteve Avery's DNA, not Theresa's who was the damn owner. No plausible explanation was given. That was a huge red flag for me.
 
popsicledeath

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Saw someone bring up the theory that it was a spare key, which is why it didn't have her dna on it. It sure looks like it could have been a spare. If that's a reasonable reason to explain the lack of her dna, then who would have had access to her belongings and potentially her spare key?
 
ShakyJake

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popsicledeath_sl said:
Saw someone bring up the theory that it was a spare key, which is why it didn't have her dna on it. It sure looks like it could have been a spare. If that's a reasonable reason to explain the lack of her dna, then who would have had access to her belongings and potentially her spare key?
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Why would she have a spare key that she never, ever touched? That doesn't make sense. Makes even less sense that Avery would've had access to it.

By the way, Brenden's plight makes me wonder if SundanceTV'sRectifyis loosely based on that account. Brenden's situation eerily paralleled young Daniel's (the show's protagonist) confession because the officer's implied he would get to go home if he admitted to the crime.
 
Breakdown

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I know it's easy for me to say since it's not my sister dead, but yeah that halbach brother was a piece of shit.

The way every time they talked to him he would say "well he lied on the stand and that's what type of person he is" annoyed me.

I get its your sisters murder so it's near impossible to not have bias, but how could he sit through all that shit and not think anything about Brendan other than that he's a monster?

It's one thing th Avery, but man that Brendan shit was clearly wrong.

I hope they get exonerated and then the judge orders them to hold halbach down while Brendan shits in his mouth. That seems like Wisconsin justice to me.
 
popsicledeath

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ShakyJake_sl said:
Why would she have a spare key that she never, ever touched? That doesn't make sense. Makes even less sense that Avery would've had access to it.
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Well, that's the point.

It's always been strange to me they didn't find any of her personal stuff? Was it all burned up? Would a bonfire be hot enough to completely melt and destroy a bunch of keys? And how many women do you know that just have a single key on an ugly lanyard? I would have loved to hear testimony on something as stupid as friends explaining the keys she carried around because that looked like a spare key to me. And why would Avery have access to a spare key. And certainly the cops, family and ex-boyfriend could have had or had access to a spare key.
 
Jive Turkey

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The taped phone call from that pedo looking officer to his dispatch about the licence plate number really stood out to me. It was pretty obvious he was looking at the car when he made that call. That was the most blatant shady shit of the whole trial.
 
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