Marriage and the Power of Divorce

Khane_sl said:

Nothing pisses a woman off more than saying your piece and then not allowing her to respond. Like saying "You know why I'm pissed, this is why and it's not up for discussion. Have a nice night I'm going out". Then shut off your phone. Leave for long enough and they'll be apologetic when you return. Women are emotionally charged so if you keep arguing the emotion never settles into reason. Leave them alone with their thoughts and reflection and they go through the 5 stages of grief in about an hour. You can argue for 10 days straight and your point will never get through to them. Argue for 10 minutes and leave and they'll have at least thought about what it is you were actually saying.

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Yeah, probably my Achilles heel is that in certain cases I know I'm so damn right it's practically binary, and the fact that she's disputing infallible logic just makes me try even harder to paint analogies she might understand. But I've found the more logical and right you may be, the more nonsensical irrelevant BS is spewed by her (you know, the answer that has nothing to do with what the hell you're talking about where you just scratch your head and go "da fuq?") But yes, I don't think I've ever "won" an argument with a woman in the sense of me saying something, and her eyes lighting up in understanding and saying "you know what, I'm sorry you're right". The best you can get is the few hours of separation you mention, where she still won't generally admit she's wrong right off the bat, but she gives you an "in" for breaking the silence, or is waiting for you to "love up on her" where she'll act receptive and use that as an admission of guilt on her part. The latter is a particularly bad tactic to be used on me because the last thing I want to do when pissed off is fuck ( I really don't get make-up sex), so sometimes the silent treatments drag on because she's waiting to make up via sex, while I don't want to fuck her and am perfectly happy with the silent treatment and the at least 4 straight LoL games that it enables..

Bill Burr provides so much is wisdom on this subject.

I know everyone likes to generalize about women being complete retards, but I offer the alternative possibility that you guys choose shitty women. I have literally never had a relationship like what you guys are describing.

Most men's criteria for choosing women is (1)hotness (2)their ability to obtain someone that hot. Wrong wrong wrong. Women who get lots of attention from guys generally make shitty partners. Look for women who are modest, make an effort to please you, are moderately attractive, and you should run from any sense of entitlement. This one chick I broke up with in the summer recently told me in a text convo that she got to go backstage at a concert (of an artist she didn't really like), as some point of pride. That right there tells me she thinks she earned something with her looks. Red flag. Good decision, summer me.

Am I the only one that actually avoids really hot girls, in terms of finding a real partner?

No, but you should always avoid women who THINK they're really hot. Even if they're right (which they usually aren't -- hotness being a generality rather than a specific) modesty itself is a requirement for prolonged intimate contact. Hubris is different than simple confidence and should not be confused.

Hubris is not only an excess of confidence, it stems from a deeper compulsion. Hubris is so dangerous that even the word has to be sanitized.

Dabamf_sl said:

I know everyone likes to generalize about women being complete retards, but I offer the alternative possibility that you guys choose shitty women. I have literally never had a relationship like what you guys are describing.

Most men's criteria for choosing women is (1)hotness (2)their ability to obtain someone that hot. Wrong wrong wrong. Women who get lots of attention from guys generally make shitty partners. Look for women who are modest, make an effort to please you, are moderately attractive, and you should run from any sense of entitlement. This one chick I broke up with in the summer recently told me in a text convo that she got to go backstage at a concert (of an artist she didn't really like), as some point of pride. That right there tells me she thinks she earned something with her looks. Red flag. Good decision, summer me.

Am I the only one that actually avoids really hot girls, in terms of finding a real partner?

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Are you married? It sounds like no from your response, but if you are, then you are different.

The thing with this thread, at least to me, is that it's a common place where we can vent about our marriages and the situations so that when we go home from work or whatever we aren't pissed about whatever we're thinking about. Obviously, under certain situations I would let someone live with us (her or my parents for instance). The reason I vent here is so that when that conversation comes up I don't go "HOLY FUCKING SHIT YOUR MOTHER IS BATSHIT INSANE AND SHE'LL TURN YOU AGAINST ME!" Instead, I'll already have thought this situation through and had advice from my rerolled bros.

I didn't choose a hot woman. I think she's beautiful and sexy, and she can be hot, but I chose her because we clicked. Over the years, you get extremely comfortable with each other and you both change - you marry the one that changes with you and makes sense. I don't think it's an inherent problem with hot chicks, it's a problem with woman that think they're hot and try to use that.

You have to realize that a lot of us come here to vent and blow things up so that at the end of the day we are able to realize it's not as bad as it seems.

I don't know if you've ever gotten to the point in a relationship where you have to deal with woman logic in a very stupid argument. They can droll on forever about tiny details that mean nothing, and keep slamming you down, and sometimes the best way to win these arguments is to piss them off so that they go sulk in another room. It gives them, and you, time to think. My wife did this and came back telling me she was sorry. While Tarrant's story is humorous and maybe alarming to you, sometimes that's how you have to deal with it - shitty woman or not.

Lately this thread has been more about a bunch of guys taking their shitty situations and experiences with women and marriage and extrapolating it across all of society and trying to tell everyone else that we're wrong when we say our lives and relationships aren't like theirs.

Eyashusa_sl said:

Lately this thread has been more about a bunch of guys taking their shitty situations and experiences with women and marriage and extrapolating it across all of society and trying to tell everyone else that we're wrong when we say our lives and relationships aren't like theirs.

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What do you mean "lately"?

Khane_sl said:

What do you mean "lately"?

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Since March 12, 2013.

While everyone is different in how much they can tolerate from another person and how they personally deal with conflicts, this board does tend to overblow a lot of situations with extreme black and white decisions or advice. Now granted, if you have several pages of people telling you there are red flags everywhere, you better proceed with caution.

However, I can't help but to laugh at the reactions and "advice" I had on the old board. I think I came seeking help for how to calm my girlfriend the fuck down because she was kind of losing it over her master's degree courses... maybe just one in general was driving her nuts. She was crying often, and basically nothing I could do could calm her down. I explained the situation here the best I could while looking for advice, or maybe even just to blow off steam, and all I got in return from a few people was "oh man better leave her she sounds nuts, do you really want to be dealing with that?" I mean, come on, I even explained our background together as best I could to paint a fair picture, such as how we had been together for 4-5 years, she's always been level headed, and I was now simply looking for advice.

Even then, you still get people who go to the extremes and say "get the fuck out now while you can" even when you paint as fair of a picture as you can. It often seems like if a board member here describes their situation with a spouse, many people here kind of paint an evil picture of the spouse being described no matter what the story. It's weird in a way... kind of like Rerolled is a support group that almost always takes the side of our own members and says "Fuck that other person!" without taking the other side into account.

It honestly isn't all bad though, generally this part of the board especially is mature. It would be nice if we kept some responses to married people only... That one time I posted my personal shit though still makes me laugh when I think of those responses. Together 7 years now with her, married recently, and she's perfectly fine. Not everyone is as extreme batshit insane as we make them out to be. Except for the recent chick Onoes dated. That one was batshit cray.

Eyashusa_sl said:

Lately this thread has been more about a bunch of guys taking their shitty situations and experiences with women and marriage and extrapolating it across all of society and trying to tell everyone else that we're wrong when we say our lives and relationships aren't like theirs.

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There's obviously generalization at play, but stating that we're extrapolating it across all of society is a bit of an exaggeration. There are exceptions to everything, and there would be nothing to discuss or debate if these "generalizations" were absolute truth. I can start a thread about "men mainly being attracted to looks", and for the most part I'd be right, but just like you yourself point out, that is not something that important to some men. Yet I would still argue that my thread/comment is accurate as it represents the majority. The men here, myself included, recount stories and situations that almost feel like deja vu- that Bill Burr skit above certainly did. So considering fellow rerollers and comedians at large all have stories and impressions that somewhat mirror each other, our opinions on the matter must be based on some majority form of reality.

In any case, there is ZERO doubt that your claim that The Crazy goes along with looks (a generalization, but a correct one). In most cases an 8 will be more unstable than a 6, though I sure have met my share of average looking crazies too. The problem is if you are a man that can regularly bag 8's, whether it be through looks, money, charisma or all three, it is VERY hard to start aiming for 6's just because there's less chance 3 months into the relationship that she's going to pull a Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde on you. Now should that "fault" preclude/me us from recounting our pain and commiserating with fellow rerollers because we could technically be blamed for sticking our own hands in the bee-hive, perhaps.. But I still maintain that the painful situation recounted by Bill Burr above is something most guys have to deal with, whether your girl is a 6 or a 10.

I don't mind unmarried people giving unsolicited advice, as long as we are informed that the person is not married. I am probably guilty of it, as I entered this thread before I was married. Can't compare a marriage to a summer fling though. I know I'm the new guy, but I've been with my wife for 6 years. Once you see and hear them poop, all bets are off.

Dabamf_sl said:

I know everyone likes to generalize about women being complete retards, but I offer the alternative possibility that you guys choose shitty women. I have literally never had a relationship like what you guys are describing.

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What's the longest you've ever been in a relationship and did you live together? I don't recall you ever staying with one woman for longer than a few months or living with any of them in GWBYH.

Even when two people get along very well, living together adds some friction. One person isn't carrying their weight on chores or has an annoying personal habit, etc. So you get in arguments on occasion. Then you come to Rerolled and bitch about it to vent. Life goes on.

Some of my roommates from college and early career are still my closest friends, yet when we lived together we occasionally got into it over mundane shit. It happens when two people occupy the same personal space.

No one comes here to say how great their spouse is. They come to vent about something that went off the rails. What you are experiencing in this thread is selection bias.

To add to that, look at the thread title.. it's aimed at the negative.

I'll add some positive. Last night I came home and my wife said "get over here we need to talk about something really important" in a very angry voice. She then took my wang out of my pants and the good times went on.

I want to chime in with a word of advice regarding work earnings vs home chores.

Never, EVER use the fact that you make 2x as much as your spouse/partner as an excuse that you shouldn't have to do an equal share of work around the house, or with the kids. That's a horrible attitude to have. If I'm blessed enough to make 5x what my wife does at her job, that doesn't mean she should have to do all the household chores because I'm paying almost all of the bills. Responsibility should be more based on TIME, not money.

If you work 40 hours a week and your wife works 10 at a part time job, then yeah, have the conversation that she needs to spend some of those hours she's not working cooking, cleaning, whatever to help out. That's reasonable. If you are both putting in 40 hours a week, just because you make more money doesn't mean you get to come home and kick back and drink beer & play video games while she does all the housework. That's a good way to end up divorced quickly. I know, because a friend of mine had that exact attitude, and his marraige lasted all of about 5 years(the last 2 of which she was cheating on him with someone "who appreciated her")

joeboo_sl said:

I want to chime in with a word of advice regarding work earnings vs home chores.

Never, EVER use the fact that you make 2x as much as your spouse/partner as an excuse that you shouldn't have to do an equal share of work around the house, or with the kids. That's a horrible attitude to have. If I'm blessed enough to make 5x what my wife does at her job, that doesn't mean she should have to do all the household chores because I'm paying almost all of the bills. Responsibility should be more based on TIME, not money.

If you work 40 hours a week and your wife works 10 at a part time job, then yeah, have the conversation that she needs to spend some of those hours she's not working cooking, cleaning, whatever to help out. That's reasonable. If you are both putting in 40 hours a week, just because you make more money doesn't mean you get to come home and kick back and drink beer & play video games while she does all the housework. That's a good way to end up divorced quickly. I know, because a friend of mine had that exact attitude, and his marraige lasted all of about 5 years(the last 2 of which she was cheating on him with someone "who appreciated her")

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*Disclaimer, the following has to do with situations where a man makes 2-5x as much as his wife and she doesn't make a very meaningful salary. Women who act like their "job" as a teacher's aid is life changing for all those precious children they call little shits the second they come home. Women who do not actually have careers.*

She was cheating on him for 2 years because "he didn't appreciate her". And you agree that's all his fault? Obviously he played some part in that but what drives me nuts about those situations is women like his now ex-wife step out instead of trying to talk about it. And if she did try to talk about it and he wouldn't budge she should have divorced him.

You know why she didn't? Because he was right. He afforded her a life she didn't want to give up, so she waited until she had sunk her hooks into someone else who could take care of her. God forbid she do the adult, responsible thing and learn how to take care of herself while she looked for someone else. No, she needed his money until other money came along. She proved his point. If I bear the responsibility to afford us the lifestyle we crave and you work just because you want to get out of the house as a barista at Starbucks you should understand there is an opportunity cost to that. I have to worry about the family's stability and well being, the onus is on me to provide and support. If I lose my job we are in the poor house and our lives will be turned upside down. That kind of stress can take its toll and it prevents a man from being able to explore other opportunities as readily as he would if the responsibility of providing was split more evenly. This in as far as the household chores are concerned that is. The kids should be a split responsibility regardless because they're your kids and they need both of you. But if she can't do the laundry and dishes so I don't have to when I have to deal with all that extra bullshit that comes with being the breadwinner then she's got an entitled princess attitude and I can't deal with that shit.