Marriage and the Power of Divorce

Fucker · Aug 17, 2021

GuardianX said:
Trust me on the seriousness part, the Monday night I found out, I didn't sleep. I loaded up everything I could, backed up everything I could and then went to bed. I made a dead-mans switch, JUST in case but that was overkill. Any hesitancy can be directly liked to my anxiety that my marriage would break down and my kids would be in a shitty place, I wanted to handle the situation cautiously, which was stupid. Today it's been about 1 whole week since it all started, feels like a fucking month. I know how I want to handle the situation but I don't know the BEST way to handle it. MY choice would be 100% scorched earth but would that be best? I don't think so.

Tuesday, she was like, "did you log into our phone carrier?" at first I told her no because I thought I would need more stuff from them and then I circled back on that in under 30 seconds and was like...you know what, I'm not gunna start all this shit off with more lies and told her that I read everything, absolutely everything. The rest of the day was spent in near silence until I finally was in a space, anger-wise where I could talk to her without feeling completely out of control.

This is where I feel I added to the issue because of my hope that I could salvage things, my inexperience handling things like this, and I didn't want to completely start with her taking anti-depression meds. I asked her the why of it all, not why him because I knew the why of him, he was fresh exciting and he paid attention to her every message. This was answered with, "We were going to include you!" great, I told her saturday that I wanted no part of something like that, that I watched too many people implode from treating their relationship casually, I reiterated that story and asked why again. The most I got was that he was a good shoulder to cry on for work and drama issues, when asked if i never crossed her mind as the contact for all that she wasn't able to give me a solid answer. I told her that she needs to get back into therapy, because apparently, I didn't know this, she stopped going once a problem co-worker (a female) changed regions and wasn't in contact with her any longer.

I made the concession that she could still be around him, virtually, since the distance issue prevented her from just up and leaving our family (I justified it, stupidly, a decision I have since changed). During the days prior to killing that, I noticed that every time she opened her discord, Messenger or any time really shes typing away at her phone for long times, I'm anxious.

I asked her if this could ever happen again, she "Needs" something that she can't even articulate. Nothing that I don't already give her, she admits. She just "Needed" something different. She casually also dropped the idea (before all this came to light on monday) that she needed to play the field because I was her first sexual partner. The only way ANY of this gets resolved is if she understand herself the WHY of what she did. because every turn of the conversation in text and discord was met with her admitting that I should be told about their conversation bu..you know..never actually fucking telling me.

Thursday I call "him", I don't know why I did because everyone who plays MMOs these days is socially retarded. I asked him what his goal with all of this was and his answer was essentially throwing my wife under the bus, "It was her idea, she wanted to keep it going, I said we should tell you" a bunch of other bullshit. The overall gist I got from both of them was that they "WANTED to tell me" but no one ever, in the several days of chances they had, took the chance. So I essentially got stabbed in the back and stabbed in the front. After this phonecall I decided that it's likely good for the geographical distance between us. I made some stupid, cringe as fuck demands of him which I later pulled back because I'm not his god damn father. He's a druggie that is also an alcoholic, life will serve him his before I do.

After the phone-call I'm still confused as fuck as to how I want to handle the situation. I decided to play it by ear and let them still talk. I changed that later to "Just talk in-game" and then after that I was just, "No, you and him are done". This delayed the whole process and caused her to get into different head-spaces that caused her to start crying when I said "You and him are done". I noticed that as soon as she started lamentign this shit, if I was like "Yo, if it was me and X fuckign around, would you be like...no go ahead and talk to her more!" would you be okay with that? and instantly it would be like, "Oh yeah, I almost ended my own marriage" in her brain.

I believe this is most of the remaining non specific details left, as said I'm holding some things because I still think this shit show is salvageable. It's also super raw still, so I don't know if I'm forgetting things.

Dude...she sent the guy 1000 messages in 3 days. Take a day off from work without telling her, see a divorce lawyer, then go home pack a suitcase for her and send it and the divorce papers to her work. She's already checked out of the marriage; might as well finalize her decision for her.

Big Phoenix · Aug 17, 2021

GuardianX said:
The most I got was that he was a good shoulder to cry on for work and drama issues

Your acquaintance is a snake. The only reason men are ever a shoulder to cry on is because they want to become that dick to ride on. Obviously that doesnt absolve your wife of anything but this clearly lets you know what type of person he is.

Id definitely make sure this guy is removed from your social circle.

I asked her if this could ever happen again, she "Needs" something that she can't even articulate. Nothing that I don't already give her, she admits. She just "Needed" something different. She casually also dropped the idea (before all this came to light on monday) that she needed to play the field because I was her first sexual partner. The only way ANY of this gets resolved is if she understand herself the WHY of what she did. because every turn of the conversation in text and discord was met with her admitting that I should be told about their conversation bu..you know..never actually fucking telling me.

So she cheats because shes bored/curious and wants something different. Good chance that in time that state of mind will cause her to step out again and most likely not with someone who lives across the country.

When my ex did this a big part of my rationalization of not breaking up with her on the spot was that it wasnt as serious or wrong because nothing physical happened. Reality was it was just as serious as anything physical and I should have known better.

After the phone-call I'm still confused as fuck as to how I want to handle the situation. I decided to play it by ear and let them still talk. I changed that later to "Just talk in-game" and then after that I was just, "No, you and him are done". This delayed the whole process and caused her to get into different head-spaces that caused her to start crying when I said "You and him are done". I noticed that as soon as she started lamentign this shit, if I was like "Yo, if it was me and X fuckign around, would you be like...no go ahead and talk to her more!" would you be okay with that? and instantly it would be like, "Oh yeah, I almost ended my own marriage" in her brain.

What did she say to try and rectify your relationship? Cut all contact with the man? Stop playing MMOs and socializing with men in similar environments? If she didnt say she would make such changes then shes probably already checked out of the marriage, especially if she has it in her head she needs to "find herself".

There really isnt any easy choice. It comes down to blowing up your marriage and how that effects your kids or gamble on her not cheating in the future while always having a shitty feeling in your stomach being worried about every text.

Hoss · Aug 17, 2021

The thing about this type of cheating is that often the person doing it has never thought about it as cheating before. So if you want things to work out you have to give her some leeway the first time. But you gotta make it clear. I think she knows since she tried to hide it but if she seems even a little reluctant to admit that then go to a counselor.

Do you know where this guy lives? I would probably go kill him. He's got to be out of both of your lives. Block his number at the provider. I know verizon can do that because I remember seeing the option on my parental controls. Don't know if he can be blocked in discord, but have her do that too. Does she use apps like kik or telegram? You definitely need to get away from him in game. That might mean quitting the guild, moving servers, quitting the MMO, or quitting all MMOs. If that's a problem it means the games are more important than your lives and your childrens' well being. Find a new hobby. Become preppers.

GuardianX said:
There is more to this story but honestly we're still in the thick of it so I don't really feel comfortable sharing the rest of it.

Waiting for the other shoe to drop that he already secretly has 3 misstresses. But that doesn't matter because she doesn't know about them.

Hoss · Aug 17, 2021

GuardianX said:
if I was like "Yo, if it was me and X fuckign around, would you be like...no go ahead and talk to her more!" would you be okay with that? and instantly it would be like, "Oh yeah, I almost ended my own marriage" in her brain.

Confused. Did you say this or not? You should say this. I bet she doesn't have that oh yeah moment. She's probably in full on defensive mode and she will do nothing but shut down and deny that she did anything wrong as long as she's defensive. This is human nature not anything specific to your wife. It's a bad sign that she didn't voluntarily cut him off completely right away. She tried to hide it so she knows she was wrong.

Cutlery · Aug 17, 2021

Fucker said:
Dude...she sent the guy 1000 messages in 3 days. Take a day off from work without telling her, see a divorce lawyer, then go home pack a suitcase for her and send it and the divorce papers to her work. She's already checked out of the marriage; might as well finalize her decision for her.

As someone who was in almost this exact situation 3 years ago (18 years married, 2 kids)...

Do this.

If you don't, you have a high probability of spending a couple days in jail and getting a restraining order against you, and then your climb just got a WHOLE lot harder.

I didn't want to believe it either. I thought it could be saved. But it can't. And the way you talk about how angry you are about it, makes me think she can do the same shit my ex did to me, which was just to call the cops, say she's scared (that's literally all they have to do) and then you're fucked.

Initiating the divorce is a FAR better option than

1) having criminal charges against you.
2) not being able to go home or see your kids
3) not being able to negotiate with her thru a no contact order.

I wanted to save it too. But honestly? Both my kids are way better off after the split. The oldest just needed her mom out of her life. She's doing fucking great now with me being the only influence on her. And the younger one feels lucky because she has 2 sets of "parents" that care for her.

So yeah. Take it from a guy who was right there a few years ago...take the steps I was too weak to do. The ONLY consolation I have is that no one can ever say I didn't try everything I could possibly do to save my marriage. But that is a small thing for what I paid for it.

Kirun · Aug 17, 2021

Cutlery said:
As someone who was in almost this exact situation 3 years ago (18 years married, 2 kids)...

Do this.

If you don't, you have a high probability of spending a couple days in jail and getting a restraining order against you, and then your climb just got a WHOLE lot harder.

I didn't want to believe it either. I thought it could be saved. But it can't. And the way you talk about how angry you are about it, makes me think she can do the same shit my ex did to me, which was just to call the cops, say she's scared (that's literally all they have to do) and then you're fucked.

Initiating the divorce is a FAR better option than

1) having criminal charges against you.
2) not being able to go home or see your kids
3) not being able to negotiate with her thru a no contact order.

I wanted to save it too. But honestly? Both my kids are way better off after the split. The oldest just needed her mom out of her life. She's doing fucking great now with me being the only influence on her. And the younger one feels lucky because she has 2 sets of "parents" that care for her.

So yeah. Take it from a guy who was right there a few years ago...take the steps I was too weak to do. The ONLY consolation I have is that no one can ever say I didn't try everything I could possibly do to save my marriage. But that is a small thing for what I paid for it.

Kids are ALWAYS better off with two "separate" sets of parents who are living happy lives vs. 1 set of parents who are fucking miserable.

elbas · Aug 17, 2021

While you're working through all this with her, it would be a good idea to have a voice-activated recorder on you at all times. There are recording apps you can get for your phone, or you can buy a dedicated recorder for under $50. Hopefully you won't need it, but it'll help if you get in a he-said-she-said situation in front of a judge. Note: Different states have different laws regarding recording conversations. If your state is a one-party state, then you can record any conversations you're a part of.

Lendarios · Aug 17, 2021

GuardianX I hope you can read this.

I was in a opposite situation 12 years ago, on the side of the coin doing the virtual harmless stuff. Basically while my wife was going to medical school on the Caribbean, I reconnected via skype with a high school friend that was in another country, and after 5 minutes of chatting she dropped on me "Btw I had a crush on you on high school". Now, this girl was a 9/10 in high school so I was flabbergasted she liked me. I told her the feeling in high school was mutual and over the course of 2 weeks we flirted on skype. Two weeks after, my wife got home and got on the computer and she saw the messages and read them all.

I was on the camp, maybe I still partially am of "it is not cheating, but it is pretty close to it". While it may not have been physically cheating, it hurt my wife and our relationship so much, that up to this day is still brought up in discussions and arguments. The outcome was I cut off all communications with the girl, blocked her and moved on, didn't even say goodbye. PS. she was married too and her husband was going through some infertility issues. That is the last I heard from them 12 years ago.

But what I want to say is this. You don't have to apologize for going through her texts. You don't have to apologize for demanding sexual exclusivity, even virtual exclusivity. The moment she agreed to be your wife, she is is supposed to close her legs and change the way she interacts with males.

Your wife is the one who has to apologize to you for what she has done. Not you, you have done nothing wrong. You put your tongues in yours wife's asshole, are you going to tell me the phone is off limits now?

There is a difference between respecting someone privacy and that person not cooperating when you have a legitimate inquiry about their behavior.

Your wife is the one that needs to change her behavior, Not you. She needs to cut all communication with the guy, yesterday. That is NOT negotiable, it is basically you or him, as simple as that.

Prepare all evidence that you need to substantiate a divorce on the court of law. Save all the logs, screenshots, everything. Be prepared to mentally checkout of the relationship if she doesn't apologize honestly and changes her behavior. If you cant afford the divorce or you still want to be around the kids, you can't do it unless she changes her behavior, or you get used to her behaving like that.

Can she stop doing it? Of course, but she has to want it, and she has to understand, at least logically, if not emotionally why she has to never speak with the guy again.
You are probably never going to forgive her, but you will forget about this, because that is our nature as guys.

Good luck, you are the party who was affected by the cheating. Demand change and apologies or walk out the door.

Foler · Aug 17, 2021

GuardianX said:
Kinda want to vent, kinda want to see what conclusions everyone else would end up with.

Background, Wife and I have been married 10 years, and have 3 kids.

Basically a week ago my wife starts getting hyper sexual (Thursday) next day (friday) it hypes up to another level and we end up doing some things. At this poit I'm going, "Are my stars aligning or are her new BC meds just hitting her hormones super hard" (Saturday) rolls around and she wants some sexy stories on top of what we were already doing and it involved a mutual acquaintance. I play along because whatever, it's our time and compared to some of the other stories she's asked for, it's tame as fuck. After fun time I pull her aside and was like, "all the things I said in those stories, I hope you understand that they are JUST stories, there isn't anything and will never be anything to them, I've watched too many peoples marriages fail due to insane shit like this and I don't want this to be one of them, so make sure that the stories STAY as stories." Sunday we just end up doing our normal routine sans sexy times.

Monday rolls around, I ask her, "Hey, those things you were saying during our time on Saturday were pretty hardcore, you haven't been messaging the acquaintance, anything right?" She responds with they have been talking about sexual stuff, only talking, nothing too deep. "Fine" I'm salty a bit and I re-tell her after that conversation that I've watched marriges implode due to shit like this. I ask if I can read the conversation (either way I was going to read it, this was just getting her permission), she starts saying that wouldn't be a great idea (now I really wanna read them). I finish the conversation with "Is there anythign else that I could find that would make this a lot worse?" "Not that I can think of"

So, after she goes to bed, I'm looking around at those discord messages and I see a bunch of conversation missing. Shit in the middle of a conversation. So I head to our phone carrier and find that she sent over a thousand messages to this guy in like 3 days. Then I logged into our carrier app and scroll to the beginning, first message I see is:

Sent from her to him.

it only gets worse from there with them exchanging photos.

The last photo exchange happening Monday afternoon, after the saturday lecture, after casual conversations sunday about it cheating destroying marriages.

---

So, have fun, because I'm not.

I am fucking torn, I am angry as fuck, there are so may emotions I have had since it happened and I just don't know how to attain / retain what i want.

I want my family to remain a family is the bottom line but I don't know if that will fuckin work.

The kicker? I introduced them (her to a group of people) because she needed a friend network because she "Doesn't have any friends". The friend network imploded when the guy was trying to have relations with another single person and found out they were insane. Then my wife and him and a couple other buddies of mine started playign MMOs.

Cool.

So these stories… Are we talking swingers shit? Like she’s interested in swinging?

Kiki · Aug 17, 2021

You gotta go bang some hottie now to get even. Then when you bring it up, she can bring up the slut you fucked.

Khane · Aug 17, 2021

Your wife wanted you to find out about this. For whatever reason. She engaged you and asked you to tell stories about this other guy? That's very strange.

Either she wanted to be caught because she felt guilty, which can be something salvageable.

Or she wanted you to know because she wanted to exert power over you. Which is unsalvageable.

You need to figure out what the reasoning is.

GuardianX · Aug 18, 2021

God this is gunna be a long, chain quote reply...here we go bitches..

DIVORCE...

I don't know if it will happen, all I know is for now, better or worse (hahah....ahh) I'm going to stick it out. Likely a dumb idea, every time I make a "Nice guy" move in my life I end up getting fucked. I would rather go out of this knowing I tried my hardest and fought to keep my house my home with my kids and then later in life have their respect then walk out now in a time when all they would see is Dad packing his bags and leaving. Idealistic? Sure.

Lendarios I read what you posted, I don't have anyone ignored here aside from a couple asian girl spammers in FSR. Honestly I didn't LIKE doing the phone part, I wish I didn't have to do it. But i logged into my account and saw:

When a normal month looks like:

I clicked the history and saw (this is filtered to ONLY this number / location BTW):

Kirun said:
Yeah, do this so that she'll have zero respect for you as a man(she already obvious has very little, since she sexted without you guys having something in place where that is "ok") who stands up for himself. This is a long, agonizing road to Cucksville. You need to fucking bail.

Not gunna bail, I'm not going to treat my family as disposable. I will do as I have been doing though and keep a folder with all the records of calls, the phone logs and the discord info dump. I have made it exceedingly clear what was at stake for her and she has come to terms with the level of loss the other person would experience in all this, Zero.

Deathwing said:
Your wife "was going to include you!"? What does that mean? Because, at best, that sounds like spit roasting your wife.

Captain Suave said:
Wut? No. This is also wrong on many levels - in abstract, as a reaction to being caught, and especially in response to your stated preferences. From the subtext of your version of events it would seem she's used to bullshitting concessions out of you. You'll have to stick up for yourself in a material way beyond giving everyone a stern talking-to, or else I don't see how you end up with any respect (even self-respect).

I agree in the insanity of the statement. I think it was one of 2 things, she THOUGHT / rationalized that I would be okay because of the various stories I would tell her (lookign back, I can't say that was a great idea...but it did spice up the sex) OR it was a hail-mary of "Hey I PLANNED to let you know!" I'm more for the former than the latter at this point.

Kiki said:
I mean if you are the only guy she's been with she's gonna get curious. It's natural and not your fault really but you need to be 100% in control now. She either needs to get over it, or go get it out of her system. If she comes back after, great. If you aren't okay with that, also fine. If I had only seen one pair of boobs my entire life, I'd be curious too and trying to catch a glimpse. I still get the itch every couple years. This is biology. But in the meantime, you aren't going to trust her, and you shouldn't. She's being driven by things that aren't logical; she doesn't even know why she's doing it. The question is do you accept that or is it a gamebreaker? Or can she wrestle with her own hormones enough to keep it in her pants?

Big Phoenix said:
So she cheats because shes bored/curious and wants something different. Good chance that in time that state of mind will cause her to step out again and most likely not with someone who lives across the country.

I don't know why she cheated, she doesn't know why she cheated (or doesn't want to say). My desire in all this would be for her to receive help and understand the "Why" of it all. As said at the top, this will likely fuck me in the long term.

Big Phoenix said:
Your acquaintance is a snake. The only reason men are ever a shoulder to cry on is because they want to become that dick to ride on. Obviously that doesnt absolve your wife of anything but this clearly lets you know what type of person he is.

Id definitely make sure this guy is removed from your social circle.

Big Phoenix said:
What did she say to try and rectify your relationship? Cut all contact with the man? Stop playing MMOs and socializing with men in similar environments? If she didnt say she would make such changes then shes probably already checked out of the marriage, especially if she has it in her head she needs to "find herself".

The other guy is out of the picture. I haven't talked to him since the call. I have been telling her that basically this guy stood to lose nothing while she would lose everything. During the call with him he did say "Sorry" but I feel like it was more out of requirement than genuine repentance. This is a person I had been gaming with for about a year off and on, placed trust in him, my kids and I played small time multi-player games with him and his brother and finally when my wife was complaining about not having a friend group, I connected her to a group he was with tangentially. Immediately he started flirting with and getting nudes from a girl in that group who was single. Through the course of playing with them she (single girl) basically fucked that relationship into the ground. I am PRETTY sure that my wife was a rebound for him. I am not certain of this guess but it fits.

As for what she has been doing, she has been holding to all the things she has said she would do.

Kirun · Aug 18, 2021

GuardianX said:
Not gunna bail, I'm not going to treat my family as disposable. I will do as I have been doing though and keep a folder with all the records of calls, the phone logs and the discord info dump. I have made it exceedingly clear what was at stake for her and she has come to terms with the level of loss the other person would experience in all this, Zero.

You can't negotiate desire, dude. It only every leads to obligated compliance.

Enjoy being a cuck and constantly having a seed in the back of your head every time she takes her phone to the bathroom, goes out for hours, etc. That's no way to live and you're FAR better off ripping this bandaid off now, but you go ahead and create more misery for yourself, it's your life. Your kids will be fine, but dragging them through future, inevitable drama is only going to make shit worse for them.

GuardianX · Aug 18, 2021

Breaking this into 2 posts because that was getting kinda too chained.

Kirun said:
Kids are ALWAYS better off with two "separate" sets of parents who are living happy lives vs. 1 set of parents who are fucking miserable.

I agree, prior to last week though we were 100% fine. Our relationship was "Perfect" for most intents. sure we argued, we talked, we debated things, honest to god before this started it was a normal week. Our kids are amazing, they aren't being neglected, my eldest just came back from a LONG getaway with the grandparents and they were AMAZED at how well he did and even more-so at the compliments he got for being so polite and helpful around their other guests.

Kirun said:
You can't negotiate desire, dude. It only every leads to obligated compliance.

Enjoy being a cuck and constantly having a seed in the back of your head every time she takes her phone to the bathroom, goes out for hours, etc. That's no way to live and you're FAR better off ripping this bandaid off now, but you go ahead and create more misery for yourself, it's your life. Your kids will be fine, but dragging them through future, inevitable drama is only going to make shit worse for them.

To a degree, I agree. This is why I have saught the compliance to the list I put below AND I will demand compliance til all of the rest are underway (takes time to set up appointments).

I am giving it time, if I maintain that I cannot trust her and constantly am i the middle of anxiety / depression. I'm done. In the scope of things, this isn't the worst in life that has happened to me. I made it through those times and I can make it through these. To my own credit, I only put a hole in ONE wall this past week.

As for being a cuck, I dunno man that's pretty harsh. My wife came with her protective seal still in-tact. The thing about this that hurt the most wasn't her sending pics it was her going behind my back. Do I appreciate her sending the pics? Fuck no I don't, but to insinuate that if i don't kick it to the curb I'm cucking out is a bit much. I will give her the tools she needs to succeed or hang herself because of that I will sleep better in the belief that I did what I thought was best. Walk softly and carry a big stick and all.

Foler said:
So these stories… Are we talking swingers shit? Like she’s interested in swinging?

Khane said:
Your wife wanted you to find out about this. For whatever reason. She engaged you and asked you to tell stories about this other guy? That's very strange.

Either she wanted to be caught because she felt guilty, which can be something salvageable.

Or she wanted you to know because she wanted to exert power over you. Which is unsalvageable.

You need to figure out what the reasoning is.

Foler, amongst other things, yes.

EDIT: For the sake of being more transparent, it is common for me to show her naked girls (Reddit, FSR, ect...). It has always been in a, "Do you like X part of her?" style setting. I'm not jerking it to any of them, it's mainly like looking at a pretty landscape. I SHOULD likely ask her how she feels about this, MY guess is she doesn't care.

This singular point as well as her just not having common sense gives me reason to believe that she is as serious as can expect when she talks about how she wanted to include me BUT other comments she made during the exchange draw that into question. I'm not even joking about the common sense thing, she does things that just defy rational thought sometimes. Not stupid mind you, just without common sense.

As for the guilt vs power thought, I would say it's neither. Her intent was likely to just let it all stop. When I asked WHY she continued even past the point of me giving her warnings about this shit breaking relationships and that imagination should stay in the realm of imagination was that he was so pushy. A guy...on the internet...was pushy. My wife is ultra beta. Maybe that is too trusting of me but the reality is that, aside from this indecent, she is TERRIBLE at lying. Not telling me thigs? Sure, she's decent at that but this relationship was found out after a week. (Phone records and DM's prove it.)

Kiki said:
You gotta go bang some hottie now to get even. Then when you bring it up, she can bring up the slut you fucked.

Hoss said:
Confused. Did you say this or not? You should say this. I bet she doesn't have that oh yeah moment. She's probably in full on defensive mode and she will do nothing but shut down and deny that she did anything wrong as long as she's defensive. This is human nature not anything specific to your wife. It's a bad sign that she didn't voluntarily cut him off completely right away. She tried to hide it so she knows she was wrong.

A while ago, while playing WoW, I was getting all the green lights from this one girl we were playing with. All the conversations would start calmly enough and then it would end up just being us in the discord at the end of the night then it would shift sexual and I would show myself the door shortly after. After a few weeks of that, a buddy of mine was in there while it happened and when I showed myself the door, she continued on with him. It ended up putting a pretty damn big rift in our group of friends.

I reminded my wife about this during this past week.

I asked her how she would have handled me sending her (WoW girl) dick pics and her sending me any pic I asked for, would she allow me to speak to her anymore? Would she allow me to continue on with her in ANY manner? Was what she and I did damaging to the family?

Her answer was of agreeance, she sees that the continued relationship between her and the guy was over, it was over when I found out. She sees that the behavior would lead to the absolute destruction of our relationship.

---

Bottom line, today we are here:

She understands that I don't trust her. I have relayed that I am NOT a moron and trying to obfuscate information / conversations will end our relationship.

She understands that I am her husband, and can bring any issue or concern to me. I will always be a rational person to bring things to before they become issues that threaten our family.

She understands that she needs help, she will be going back to therapy and will not sugar-coat what has happened. She needs to understand the "WHY" of the situation and I will be here while she searches for it.

(Old School, I know) She understands that she is MINE. I do not share, I am not shared.

---

A few questions on my side of the court:

"Why didn't I fuck him up?"

He lives in a place not easily reached by me, to accomplish this task would be to either travel several days during a time where my wife is already depressed / emotional. Not to mention, we have 3 kids that would have to be cared for by her because we don't have family with in a reasonable distance to come hold the fort. If this was a local thing, I would have taken a nail gun to his knee-caps. IF he decides that this relationship isn't done, I know enough people to call in a local favor to convince him it's done.

"Why didn't you cut him off?"

I don't know, it was a dumb one. My wife is very easily extremely emotional, not manipulative but easily swings into emotions. Likely the reason for all this, she likely thought there was more relationship between them than there actually was and then he took advantage of that trust. I didn't want to send her into a depression spiral that she couldn't get out of, I wanted to have my cake and eat it too. I wanted the benefit of her having a friend group with him present, than not have a friend group at all. Ultimately she agreed to drop it all, she wasn't after the friend group, she was after a good friend, someone to treat her well in-games that I don't play or can't play along side her due to kids. Magically he fit the bill.

"Why did she think you would be okay with joining in?"

The stories I tell her, combined with her common sense (severe lack of) and her emotions most likely. I am likely partially at fault for planting this seed in her mind that by telling her these stories that somehow I would be okay with the things I tell her actually happening.

"Why are you seemingly trusting her now?"

I'm not, I've dealt with this behaviour before outside of her. I am fairly certain of my ability to see bullshit (hence going from receiving an all clear to "finding it all" in under 4 hours). She wants forgiveness, I'm not giving it to her yet.

Kirun · Aug 18, 2021

GuardianX said:
As for being a cuck, I dunno man that's pretty harsh.

Harsh? She sent what I can only assume are nude pics to some dude and you're still trying to negotiate desire with her? She has none, if she did, she wouldn't have felt compelled to send the pics. The fact that you're giving her "outs" is only further confirming in her mind what she believes to be true in her subconscious - that you aren't "worth" respecting. You're proving her right by essentially allowing her to hold ALL the power.

Genuine desire is something a person must come to of their own volition. You can force a woman by threat/ultimatum/negotiation/etc. to comply with behaving in a desired manner, but you cannot make her want to behave that way. A prostitute will fuck you for an exchange, it doesn’t mean she wants to.

Now, obviously you have children and shit to worry about so you can't just "walk" overnight, per se. However, you should've absolutely seen a lawyer the next day and started getting that ball rolling, while preparing how you were going to explain the way forward to your children. But sure, man. She'll totally come around...

Like I said. It's your life and you get to live it how you see fit. Just make sure to post the epic drama here when this all blows up again and you catch her doing more of this, because she absolutely will and the fact that you're "negotiating" only further guarantees that outcome.

Fucker · Aug 18, 2021

When was the last time she sent you 1000 messages? Has she sent you that many total, ever?

Make sure she doesn't have access to the stuff you are saving. I'd be holding on to that when the inevitable custody battles arise. If she finds it, she will delete it.

Damn, 1088 messages in such a short amount of time. Is she on meth or something?

elbas · Aug 18, 2021

GuardianX said:
A while ago, while playing WoW, I was getting all the green lights from this one girl we were playing with. All the conversations would start calmly enough and then it would end up just being us in the discord at the end of the night then it would shift sexual and I would show myself the door shortly after.

It sounds like you guys have condoned this kind of behavior, but it's always going to be problematic. Humans are fallible. It's pretty easy to cross the line when you go right up to it. And it sounds like the lines in your relationship are somewhat blurry anyway. Women are more driven by their emotions. It's going to be much easier for you to do it as harmless fun, but her emotions will tell her it's real and make it much harder to stop. It's kind of like drugs. Some people can occasionally party and it's no big deal, but other people get hooked and end up losing everything. For a while anyway, you guys should have a hard rule that none of that kind stuff is allowed so you can get back on solid ground.

moonarchia · Aug 18, 2021

GuardianX, one thing you are going to need to brace yourself for, is that you are going to have to "blow up" the relationship if you ever want to have any chance of putting it back together. The foundation is now permanently cracked, and you can't fix it. You don't have to be cruel or angry about it, just tell her that the betrayal cut too deep, and you need to start over, with or without her. Let her make her decision, and then follow through with what you need to do either way. And do go see that divorce lawyer yesterday. If you can patch things up, great, but if you can't this is one of the bigger life bombs you will want to be getting in front of, because family court and her lawyer will shit on you from every direction if you aren't.

Szeth · Aug 18, 2021

Maybe go see a professional counselor and ignore all of the advice here. I know it's "easier" to just talk back and forth with people on the internet than go pay someone for advice, but this is a situation that NONE OF THE PEOPLE HERE ARE QUALIFIED TO HELP WITH.

Cad · Aug 18, 2021

Deathwing said:
Definitely shouldn't have read her conversations without her permission.

I don't agree with this, husband and wife should have no secrets, because there shouldn't be a need for it. My wife has complete access to anything I have... she has the passcode to my phone, she has my computer password. If I caught her looking through it, it wouldn't be a thing, because there wouldn't be anything I'd be afraid of her seeing.

This whole "you looked at my phone!" scandal is insane to me. Why do I need to "trust" that you're acting right, such that I need "permission" to look through my wife's phone? She should "trust" that there's nothing to find and be an open book. You can't have a relationship based on "trust" when you are hiding behind passcodes and passwords.

I don't get it, bros.

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