Marriage and the Power of Divorce

Aldarion · Aug 18, 2021

Yeah, its a little hard to wrap my head around trusting this person with everything in your life - finances, kids, home - but drawing the line at some trivial detail like phone messages or emails. My wife can get into my emails anytime, and I don't keep my phone locked because I'm not an insecure paranoid nutjob, so if she wanted to read some texts she can knock herself out.

Why would you have secrets you needed to keep from your wife? Thats just weird.

Cad · Aug 18, 2021

GuardianX , there's no good answer here because the only reason someone does what your wife is doing is because she feels desire for that person, and she feels she needs the attention/validation that comes from that other person. There's absolutely no way to fix/talk it out, that just happened and it is what it is.

You need to set new parameters for the relationship, and see if she is willing to step up.

#1: You need to make it clear that this is not okay, it's completely inexcusable, it's not due to you, and you're not accepting it. You make that clear by:
#2: Walking away. At least initially. Tell her there are conditions for coming back, and if she isn't willing to meet the conditions, it's over. The conditions are:
#3: Complete transparency from now on. No messaging anybody on the sly. ANYBODY. She wants to talk to a guy? Open a group chat with him, you, and her. She wants to talk to friends? Group chat. Me and my wife have group chats with all our friends, you know why? Because why not? Why should I hear about it later? Include everybody. Technology works. You should know her passcode and there should be no issue with looking at anything. It is unbelievable to me in the first place that people are actually texting such that you could look at the phone carrier (anybody ever heard of whatsapp? Kik? sheesh) but other apps could be a lot harder to detect. You need to be making her aware that you will be following up and looking at her phone to be sure no bullshit is going on.
#4: She recommits to following through on this relationship with you and making it work, redoubling her efforts, and being serious... or you're out. And this isn't a today and tomorrow thing, it's a forever thing. You tell her if she takes the correct steps, you will meet her there and both of you will put in effort to keep the relationship fresh and stable, but that since she did this, she is going to have to make the first moves.

And then you see if she does it. If she does, she cares, and that's enough to have something to build on. If she is indignant about privacy and "permissions" and "I didn't fuck him so it's okay" then you need to keep going out the door.

My $.02 bro. Sorry.

Khane · Aug 18, 2021

Access isn't really the issue though is it. Once you start feeling like you need or want to spy on the person you are in a relationship with something is wrong, and whether you have their passwords and account info doesn't really matter. After all there is nothing stopping someone from creating "secret" accounts even in a relationship where everything is supposed to be an open book.

Hatorade · Aug 18, 2021

At least get some distance for a while, staying is insane to me but if you going down that road at least fuck off for a week and be selfish doing whatever you want,
get some perspective.
You 100% have to leave IMO staying for the kids never works, living in a broken home fucking sucks.

Cad · Aug 18, 2021

Khane said:
Access isn't really the issue though is it. Once you start feeling like you need or want to spy on the person you are in a relationship with something is wrong, and whether you have their passwords and account info doesn't really matter. After all there is nothing stopping someone from creating "secret" accounts even in a relationship where everything is supposed to be an open book.

I don't really agree, trust does not mean being blind. You trust, but verify. You build trust by verifying, and having that person show you, time and time again, that they aren't lying and that they aren't hiding anything. You don't trust them by just blindly hoping they aren't lying to you until you stumble upon the fact that they are.

Deathwing · Aug 18, 2021

Cad basically what

Khane said. Perhaps I should have left the permission part out as it is irrelevant.

Edit: conversation moving too fast. I don't disagree with what you're saying in principle but I'm still not going to read my wife's text messages. Even in a committed relationship there are still boundaries that should be respected. They can demonstrate they aren't hiding anything from you without having to actually verify that.

Khane · Aug 18, 2021

Cad said:
I don't really agree, trust does not mean being blind. You trust, but verify. You build trust by verifying, and having that person show you, time and time again, that they aren't lying and that they aren't hiding anything. You don't trust them by just blindly hoping they aren't lying to you until you stumble upon the fact that they are.

Whatever works for the two of you in your relationship is how you should handle it. I'm just saying whether you have access or not isn't really a deterrent for bad behavior. When someone wants to cheat they will find ways to try and hide that even when you have each other's passwords.

Though I don't really agree with your statement. You don't start out just blindly trusting someone, but you don't need to spy on them to build that trust.

Cad · Aug 18, 2021

Deathwing said:
Cad basically what Khane said. Perhaps I should have left the permission part out as it is irrelevant.

Edit: conversation moving too fast. I don't disagree with what you're saying in principle but I'm still not going to read my wife's text messages. Even in a committed relationship there are still boundaries that should be respected. They can demonstrate they aren't hiding anything from you without having to actually verify that.

You shouldn't need to actually go read every day. Just the fact that you can, and she's not hiding it from you, is probably enough. If there's this expectation of "privacy" between people who literally share a life bond, then in my mind there's something wrong there. Why should I need privacy from the person I am hoping will be there to hold my hand on my deathbed? I don't.

Cad · Aug 18, 2021

Khane said:
Whatever works for the two of you in your relationship is how you should handle it. I'm just saying whether you have access or not isn't really a deterrent for bad behavior. When someone wants to cheat they will find ways to try and hide that even when you have each other's passwords.

Though I don't really agree with your statement. You don't start out just blindly trusting someone, but you don't need to spy on them to build that trust.

Between their phone and computer, if there is some other way they are communicating it will be obvious enough that I suspect you'd know. Me and my wife are also basically together all the time, there'd be no way for her to hide sending a bunch of messages either way, no matter what app or method she's using.

It's not "spying" on someone when they aren't hiding anything. By using the word "spying", you're making it sound like you're accessing their private information. It's not private. Everything your wife has is yours. Everything you have is hers. What right is there to private message bitches and then call it "privacy"? Thats asinine.

Deathwing · Aug 18, 2021

Cad said:
You shouldn't need to actually go read every day. Just the fact that you can, and she's not hiding it from you, is probably enough. If there's this expectation of "privacy" between people who literally share a life bond, then in my mind there's something wrong there. Why should I need privacy from the person I am hoping will be there to hold my hand on my deathbed? I don't.

I feel like we're talking past each other a bit. I agree, just the fact that I can and she's not hiding it from me, is enough. The expectation of privacy is implicit and organic(if that makes sense in this context). She's never told me not to read her texts despite me having her password for years.

For example, this conversation is between us and whomever else is reading this thread. If I knew my wife might read it, and she can, she knows of this forum and this thread, I would have changed what I said. Nothing drastic, nothing incriminating, I just would have tagged

Mrs. Haus in all of my posts had I known. Expectation of audience can be subtle yet important.

Cad · Aug 18, 2021

Deathwing said:
I feel like we're talking past each other a bit. I agree, just the fact that I can and she's not hiding it from me, is enough. The expectation of privacy is implicit and organic(if that makes sense in this context). She's never told me not to read her texts despite me having her password for years.

For example, this conversation is between us and whomever else is reading this thread. If I knew my wife might read it, and she can, she knows of this forum and this thread, I would have changed what I said. Nothing drastic, nothing incriminating, I just would have tagged Mrs. Haus in all of my posts had I known. Expectation of audience can be subtle yet important.

IMO, when it comes to your wife, you should write everything as if you expect her to read it. And if you'd get in trouble for something you said or she'd be upset about it, maybe you should think about that.

This is your life partner, the person you expect to be there for you if you get ass cancer, your dick falls off, and you are dead broke. And y'all are talking about whether she can look at your phone. Crazy times, man.

Captain Suave · Aug 18, 2021

Cad said:
you should write everything as if you expect ____ to read it. And if you'd get in trouble for something you said or _____'d be upset about it, maybe you should think about that.

This goes for life in general. Not to say that you should never say anything that could anger/hurt someone, but it shouldn't be a surprise when you do.

GuardianX · Aug 18, 2021

Szeth said:
Maybe go see a professional counselor and ignore all of the advice here. I know it's "easier" to just talk back and forth with people on the internet than go pay someone for advice, but this is a situation that NONE OF THE PEOPLE HERE ARE QUALIFIED TO HELP WITH.

I'm not basing the foundations of my response to her on any of this, I'm using replies here for a couple things, understanding the pitfalls of people before me and what they did in their relationships that caused success or failure.

I have read through a lot (all?) of this thread before in time. The people here have been altered in some pretty massive ways by relationships they have been through and, honestly, it brings me a level of peace knowing that there is so much information available to me and advice from people who are basically pointing, in some cases pointing and screaming, at me to avoid the pitfalls they climbed out of. I appreciate all of it, even the ones I won't consider at this point.

---

I appreciate the replies, honestly.

I'm not leaving my home, if I leave it will be with intent to never return (aside for my kids).

I have full access to her phone, discord, facebook. She offered to have me login to her FB account, but I already had it because, prior to all this, it was a situation almost like

Cad and

Khane mentioned. We shared information freely, we were always in the same groups aside from this singular event, we will be returning to doing things together or not at all.

She is aware that this event is not okay but I am unsure if she knows or is aware of the severity of her actions, partly because I don't think she has ever experienced true loss. The possible impact of this is on me in the future should all this fail because I am unwilling to put our kids through a roller-coaster if it isn't necessary in the present.

As for the relationship part, I believe she is sincere in the idea that she thought she could have both relationships and still be committed to both. I don't know WHY she thought this was possible, I suspect it is something along the lines of what E elbas mentioned. Does this open me to future issues? 100%. I am aware, unfortunately, of the fallout that can happen because of trusting this point too much. I believe she is the type of person to, dumbly get too involved with people in a way that defies what should be common sense of a normal / married person. I don't know if this is indicative of ALL women or just certain women but the way she started this relationship is akin to a person bitching about co-workers. There weren't ANY texts before 7/2 and the discord messages before 7/2 were shit talking the failed relationship the guy had with another community member. This all blew up in a weeks time, you could argue it simmered for a month or so PRIOR but then that begs the question, is bitchign about co-workers cheating? I mean you could argue that it shows she was trying to lean on someone other than me but the reality is, all the things she bitched about with him I knew months / years prior. I feel like the relationship was born via 2 things, wanting another ear to bounce work frustrations on (sicne she stopped going to therapy, she no longer had that venue, that was news to me, apparently she stopped going when she was on maternity 5 months ago) and wanting a fresh ear to bounce these issues on. How it jumped from bitching about co-workers to outright sexting? No fucking clue other than she shared too much early on.

I mean, here:

LOVER — 07/03/2021
went really well actually

WIFE — 07/03/2021
thats cool

LOVER — 07/03/2021
much better than last time rofl

WIFE — 07/03/2021
so Larry's tanking is going well?

LOVER — 07/03/2021
yea its improving a bit =d

WIFE — 07/03/2021
ha ok just a bit huh

LOVER — 07/04/2021
the word you couldnt think of....was..Pathological !

WIFE — 07/04/2021
Yep

LOVER — 07/04/2021
rofl yah that word came to mind earlier

WIFE — 07/04/2021
Hmm ok. Why is that
And yea I'm terrible at vocab and sayings as well apparently. Just not a talker

LOVER — 07/04/2021
lol just the conversation that was being had in discord was all, and it made me think of that word, and i said to myself, i bet thats what she was saying the other night haha

WIFE — 07/04/2021
Ok. Thought you were implying more lying was happening

LOVER — 07/04/2021
whose i say, im too far away
to say *

WIFE — 07/04/2021
Well yea

LOVER — 07/04/2021
i think we're gonna do a dungeon soon, and have room, unless they invite that priest again
in which case i may just find some work to do rofl

WIFE — 07/04/2021
Yea I gotta do a few things first

LOVER — 07/04/2021
ah np

LOVER — 07/04/2021
they're back if you wanted to try and knock out that dungeon rq

WIFE — 07/08/2021
You doing ok?

LOVER — 07/09/2021
yea power has been out since wednesday lol literally just came back on

WIFE — 07/09/2021
Ahhh ok
I'm sure no AC is fun, I know

LOVER — 07/09/2021
lol ya it was no fun

LOVER — 07/10/2021
Ecylla/Millexx — Today at 7:11 PM can you get a hold of WIFE? she has a raid spot tonight if she wants it, just need to know if she wants to go or if we should find someone else

WIFE — 07/10/2021
Yea wasnt planning on it cause ME' mom, grandma and brother are here

LOVER — 07/10/2021
ah okie np, don't have too much fun haha

WIFE — 07/10/2021
It hasnt been bad. They are the nice family members lol
Super helpful and love the kiddos

LOVER — 07/10/2021
aww well thats awesome at least
alright well, just wanted to extend the offer

WIFE — 07/10/2021
Nesh asked me last night and I said no then asked me again today and I didnt respond heh. Just been busy

WIFE — 07/11/2021
hey was trying to tell everyone in discord but i only caught Frankie/Larry/Tots - i'm quitting WoW, game time runs out 7/18
so if you want me to help you w/ anything else before then i can

LOVER — 07/11/2021

is it cause of what we were talking about ?

WIFE — 07/11/2021
well

LOVER — 07/11/2021
and whose the rando in discord before i pop back up ?

WIFE — 07/11/2021
dude i have no idea, they never tell me things heh
they're doing a dungeon

LOVER — 07/11/2021
oh, figures lol...

WIFE — 07/11/2021
well ME and i had a long talk this week
he thinks if i could keep it to 2 nights a week, i.e. just raiding, i could play, and he could raid in EQ 2 nights a week, but he wants me to spend more time w/ the kids
plus he needs me to watch them at times, hes been doing tons of work on the house
and those always coincide w/ when Frank/Tots/Larry decide to play with me, or have time
so it kinda is maybe a little.. but not entirely, what we were talking about
i just told them i dont have time anymore

LOVER — 07/11/2021
well i really enjoyed playing with ya

WIFE — 07/11/2021
i gotta brb a sec

LOVER — 07/11/2021
np

WIFE — 07/11/2021
honestly if you ever want to play something else i'm up for it cause i feel like it would be more casual
but yea, brb

WIFE — 07/11/2021
back

LOVER — 07/11/2021
wb
I don't think im gonna be around much either tbh, was all set up to take a lil trip and go down to hang out, cashed in some favors, and plans got changed and now things are kinda awkward

WIFE — 07/11/2021
oh really
that sucks

LOVER — 07/11/2021
like..was supposed to be heading out..tomorrow on a greyhound
and well now things got ..awkward..at least for me

WIFE — 07/11/2021
that feels like 2 180's there, 360 back to before

LOVER — 07/11/2021
tell me about it
lol funny thing is, i've been here for hours...and can do that heroic...
and they wanna know why i wasnt in discord
like wtf
cause i got ditched again

WIFE — 07/11/2021
nope its your fault for not always being in a voice channel available and asking to go sarcasm

LOVER — 07/11/2021
clearly
and we're gonna sit here in discord..listening to them dungeon, while not being talked to..weeee....supeerrrrr fun

WIFE — 07/11/2021
idk it may seem odd but a week ago did kinda do it for me. cause everyone making new alts, and then not introducing me to Tots' sister when i got on or asking me to join in some way at least
makes me feel like chopped liver, or just some rando person or something

LOVER — 07/11/2021
i feel yah, i had to send her a tell like " <-- shawn" ...cause i think she was thinking that jughead dude was me

WIFE — 07/11/2021
lol ME says you should move to texas and we can hang out & talk shit every weekend

LOVER — 07/11/2021
bwhah
i stayed down in college station down by texas A&M for about a year

WIFE — 07/11/2021
i've never been south of the dfw area yet
but kinda want to check it out

LOVER — 07/11/2021
oh it's something alright

WIFE — 07/11/2021

LOVER — 07/11/2021
but yea if you ever wanna mess around with another game on a casual level, just float some ideas lol

WIFE — 07/11/2021
i dont mind ESO

LOVER — 07/11/2021
oh thats about as casual as it comes

WIFE — 07/11/2021
and just gonna do ffxiv in november no matter what
lol ok
i dont remember it for sure

LOVER — 07/11/2021
i tried to get into ff14, but thats one of them games where you want friends playing it lol

WIFE — 07/11/2021
yea i dont want to drag you in if you dont want to, well and i also may not have the time to help you enough to get caught up
unless you were ok w/ doing some alone
honestly you can "solo" most
there are ways

LOVER — 07/11/2021
lol
oh fuck me, they pugged 2 dps
lol
rip
im done

WIFE — 07/11/2021
but i would be ok just jumping in and finishing the story and jumping out again too probably
sigh

LOVER — 07/11/2021
guess it's time to download a LFG addon

WIFE — 07/12/2021
ok i'm going to head to bed. night. hope you can get that dungeon some time...

LOVER — 07/12/2021
night ! next time you log on eso let me know, ima head over there
f this noise

WIFE — 07/12/2021
yea i got to the point where it asked me to choose a place to go to
i was in this room w/ a bunch of portals
so figured i would stop there

LOVER — 07/12/2021
i honestly foret what i chose

WIFE — 07/12/2021
I'll just pick something tomorrow. When I first did it I dont think we had a choice
Back at launch

LOVER — 07/12/2021
it wont matter to much we can group and teleport to each other

WIFE — 07/12/2021
Oh ok

LOVER — 07/13/2021
lol i cancel'd my wow account last night -- I made the mistake of saying how i felt like a third wheel sometimes, and was told im a fuckin asshole, so yah...

WIFE — 07/13/2021
Baaah sorry Gau
For your sake I wish that didn't keep happening. That is so stupid. You aren't as asshole for feeling that way.
Honestly I have no other words. I just dont get it
Like if anything you're being nice that you want to do things with her. Or at least human for actually needing some attention once in a friggin while

LOVER — 07/13/2021
yea i dunno wtf peoples deal is, but im done being someones punching bag, im just gonna turn discord off and turn my phone off -- honestly now i really really wish you would said something bout you feeling that way too, maybe then people would realize it's actually happening lol

WIFE — 07/13/2021
Maybe...

WIFE — 07/13/2021
Though of I bring it up now it will be obvious we were talking about it. But idk if you care anymore about that?

LOVER — 07/13/2021
im not sure i care anymore

WIFE — 07/13/2021
Yea I know it's not great but I was already nervous even just telling them I'm quitting so idk if I can confront them about this. But I will consider it. I did already tell them I log on all the time and they're already doing stuff and I feel I cant catch up. But I didnt say I straight up felt alienated

LOVER — 07/13/2021
no no i get it, im not asking you to, i was just speaking out loud really was all, i shouldnt even have said anything, i apologize, not trying to make anyone feel uncomfortable

WIFE — 07/13/2021
No you can ask. Its ok
Like I genuinely feel a bit bad though. Cause I should stand up for you cause we had the same thing happen. Idk. I'm still trying to decide if I want to talk to just Frankie maybe. Or that could make it worse. I just dont know if Tots would listen

LOVER — 07/13/2021
best bet is to prolly not say anything, we know the what actually went down tho
its just one of them things that you wish could be different
i dont think anything good will come of bringing it up, i think i just needed to vent a lil, it's all good

WIFE — 07/13/2021
maybe we could joint talk to them if you want, kind of just my other thought
unless i want to message them, not sure i can get myself to do more
anyway, hope you're doing ok

WIFE — 07/13/2021
and sry i'm being a broken record. kinda just feel bad about it

LOVER — 07/13/2021
nah you're good, i feel bad also, i'm just gonna just slowly disappear into the crowd if you feel me

WIFE — 07/13/2021
Sounds so depressing
I think I need sleep. Gonna pass out. This cold is taking over

LOVER — 07/13/2021
feel better, goodnight

LOVER — 07/14/2021
how's the cold ? ya'll feelin better i hope

WIFE — 07/14/2021
I'm ok... it will hopefully be better tomorrow
Usually I have 2 bad days then it improves. Pretty typical for me

LOVER — 07/14/2021
that's good ! maybe when ur feeling better soon here we can do a quick run around on ESO, super casual like

WIFE — 07/14/2021
I'm just leaving work. Maybe at 7 or 8. Depends what needs doing at home
I see you are talking to Tots....? I'm being nosy lol

LOVER — 07/14/2021
mainly sitting here in silence me saying things and getting 1 line responses instead of a convo

WIFE — 07/14/2021
Ok...

Driving now

WIFE — 07/14/2021
ok i'm back

LOVER — 07/14/2021
wb
liking the caster so far ?

WIFE — 07/14/2021
its ok, i wonder if i only ever cast with my staff? feels maybe a bit clunky

LOVER — 07/14/2021
should be able o train in class skills weapon skills, later on global type stuff unlocks, u get more
and u can change weapons whenever u pick new ones up
to use different skills

WIFE — 07/14/2021
ok

LOVER — 07/14/2021
if you wanna be a dual wielding caster, u can do that

WIFE — 07/14/2021
so it doesnt shoehorn you into a staff as a caster?

LOVER — 07/14/2021
only if you wanna go heavy into it
i did on my healer, but really i could use a destruction staff for nukes, and my class abilitys to heal
but i doubled up
cause i dont do shit for dps
but i never die

WIFE — 07/14/2021
lol yep, typical healer

LOVER — 07/14/2021
what lvl ya make it upto ?

WIFE — 07/14/2021
4

LOVER — 07/14/2021
oh and fyi pop xp scroll when they give it to you, they end up giving you a tonnn

WIFE — 07/14/2021
ok

LOVER — 07/14/2021
of scorlls that is
scrolls*

WIFE — 07/14/2021
oh.. i may have needed to spend some points to actually get some abilities
brb

LOVER — 07/14/2021
hey
im in my discord if u wanna pop in im bout to log into eso and xp u up some if i can

WIFE — 07/14/2021
ok i'm back

LOVER — 07/14/2021
wb

LOVER — 07/14/2021
lol ok so

WIFE — 07/14/2021
Switched to my phone
ME is trying to fix the internet
What's up

LOVER — 07/14/2021

LOVER — Today at 8:55 PM cant even have a normal conversation for 5 seconds without leaving ? [8:56 PM] so we're done then ? [8:58 PM] k [9:01 PM] can you clarify the " the done with you", if you dont wanna talk anymore just let me know [9:02 PM] ok i guess i got my answer by you logging Tots — Today at 10:54 PM i was done with the conversation and spent the past 2 hours crying on the couch [10:54 PM] i shut my laptop. i just opened it. [10:55 PM] you could have called me, idk why you messaged me here when you knew i wasnt even at my computer anymore.
LOVER — Today at 10:56 PM ok, calling you after that didnt seem like any sort of good idea Tots — Today at 10:57 PM better than you messaging me on my computer, not getting a response, and then assuming i'm ignoring you.
LOVER — Today at 10:58 PM eh for all i knew you went invis, i sent it like the moment you went offline, i was already typing it

LOVER — Today at 11:06 PM well, just know the apology was sincere , i never meant to hurt your feelings about a tattoo, my wow account is up in 8 days i can just let it expire Tots — Today at 11:06 PM wtf does your wow account have anything to do with my feelings being hurt and you accusing me of calling you fucking sexist i'm so sick of that shit. my comments were about nesh. i would have called YOU sexist if you were fucking sexist. i dont appreciate that you call me the person that shits on your feelings, yet you never do anything wrong and i also never accused nesh of being sexist, i said he was most likely just pissed that i won the cloak and didnt want to enchant my weapon "if you wanna bring up old shit" as if YOU didn't shit all over my tattoo and then act like im the asshole when im offended 24 hours ago breakfast doesnt fix it, actions do. you act like nothing happened, you give half-assed apologies and move on i'm tired of being so fucking stressed all the time and being accused of ignoring you questioning me on why i fucking slept in ONE TIME, questioning me when i dont respond, accusing me of feeling "so much better" when "ole boy" was in the discord for 5 minutes. we see life differently. i expressed maybe 100 times that i hate the N word, you say it almost every day. THE LIST. GOES. ON. fuck wow, fuck the subscription, fuck the sexist bullshit accusations and fuck my feelings. i'm done crying and feeling like shit because every time i open up to you i'm a massive fucking cunt and accusing YOU of being a piece of shit look in a fucking mirror, because you're just as fucked up as i am.

WIFE — 07/14/2021
Well she's right you guys see life differently I guess. Lol

LOVER — 07/14/2021
funny thing is, half of that never happened ??!?!?!!!
no one questioned anyone about anything lol
i use the n word every day ?

WIFE — 07/14/2021
I think its cause she takes things the wrong way
At least that's how I'm interpreting it

LOVER — 07/14/2021
lol i literally apologized again and was met with a wall of text

WIFE — 07/14/2021
Do you use it without realizing cause you do say it a lot sometimes
And she's SUPER DUPER FUCKING CRAZY SENSITIVE about that cause she's a leftist

LOVER — 07/14/2021
funny thing is i used that around you when i was mad venting yah, but i made sure to never say that shit around her cause i knew how sensitive she was

WIFE — 07/14/2021
Idk I guess you dont sound sincere enough for HER but that's her bad IMO
hmm
Well you must have let it slip once? But idk. If it was only a few times the "every day" thing is BS

LOVER — 07/14/2021
oh i let it slip once, got chewed out and left it alone

WIFE — 07/14/2021
The "accusing me of feeling so much better when ole boy came into discord" stuff is a very valid thing to bring up IMO

LOVER — 07/14/2021
all i said was "you seemed fine a few minutes ago"
but yes he did happen to have just been in there and left so like duhh but still
indicating i know your mad at me and not just "not feeling well" like she tried to say
or w/e it was
oh had a bad week, that was it

WIFE — 07/14/2021
She is blowing everything put of the water
Like every little thing cause she's flipping out
She needs time away to think. But if you ask me. I wouldn't keep trying with her. Just my 2 cents

WIFE — 07/14/2021
omg
this just became a work meeting lol

LOVER — 07/14/2021
lol sry ><
i got this

WIFE — 07/14/2021
hahhaha
idk its kinda funny

LOVER — 07/14/2021
he's had 2-3 rum n cokes

WIFE — 07/14/2021

LOVER — 07/14/2021
lol

WIFE — 07/14/2021
I was just thinking I can see why they do the "tots, Larry, frankie" bubble and everyone else is equally put on the outside. Cause I guess it's all about this blind love for family and eff all others
Though idk how Larry got in. I guess by blindly following everything Frankie wanted for long enough mebbe

LOVER — 07/14/2021
thats bout right

WIFE — 07/14/2021
Honestly I find that toxic enough to not ever want to try playing another game with them again. Cause I think that's a bit too much IMO. Family is of course important but you shouldn't screw your friends who stick with you for months for a 2 week person
Anyway. Bed time... my stuff is still down. I cant get into disc on my computer

LOVER — 07/14/2021

night night
feel better btw !

WIFE — 07/16/2021
Hey. Do you want me to wait for you to finish that one island we were doing in ESO? I may play earlier today, but I could probably go somewhere else. I have the day off. Which is good cause I think I need the rest... I was bad yesterday, not sure why this one is hitting me so hard

LOVER — 07/16/2021
shitt nahhh dont wait on me
that game is nice like that

WIFE — 07/16/2021
Ok

WIFE — 07/16/2021
Hmmm Tots wants to talk to me

LOVER — 07/16/2021
dont
we got into a huge arguement last night
and i got called out and got called a liar
and after an hour of that shit i finally said something
actually
i cant tell you dont
thats not my place

WIFE — 07/16/2021
well ME doesnt want me to either
you finally said something? like what do you mean

So, if you can spot the moment it shifted, before the week it happened, let me know. Reading it all again with a fresh set of eyes, I do see a trend in the conversation, not on her side but on his.

A deeper on what

Khane and

Cad are talking about regarding us. I agree with you both and find that the situation we were in prior to this new group being in our lives was one of full transparency. I had access to her accounts, all of them, but never felt the need to pry into them because we were an open book.

Cad said:
IMO, when it comes to your wife, you should write everything as if you expect her to read it.

This is where I have been with her the whole time, I don't know why she didn't come to me but that is on the list of things to figure out. Full disclosure, I talk with her about stuff on Fires of Heaven and even this thread.

She knows how close this came to divorce, I don't know if she truly understands the severity though. As I said above, I don't think she has ever experienced true loss. Maybe me leaving would cause her to finally experience that, but I'm unwilling to put my kids through drama they don't need to experience just so my wife can have a peyote event in her life.

Phazael · Aug 18, 2021

This is actually very simple. Wife whom you were her first romantic partner gets on the internet and some sleezed druggie waves his dick around and convinces her she can get things from him that she is not getting from you, i.e. the Bored Housewife meets the Internet routine that has been around since the days of AOL chat rooms. When you say things like "she has never experienced true loss" also tells me that you are dealing with a side dash of Disney Princess Syndrome as well.

Trust is the foundation of all relationships that are going to work, romantic or otherwise. If you cannot trust someone without spying on them, you are not really in a good place. Right now, you do not have a wife. You have someone you do not trust that you are watching like a delinquent teenager because you don't want to toss out all the time you put into the relationship. So, as stated, you have given her basically all the power in this situation. When she finally does step out (and make no mistake, if she is sending nudies to some druggie and sneaking away to sext him, she will at some point) she will justify it in her mind as you being too controlling and paranoid. You cannot live your life like that long term. It will destroy you. It will destroy your relationship with your kids.

The sooner you realize this and move on, the better chance you have to not fuck up your kids and to start over with someone who is not going to try to pull a Lindsey with the first online thirsty guy who pays attention to her. And really, as hard as this might be to hear, you put your wife in a social group with a dude who you knew for less that a couple years and had already blown up one social group by banging someone in it. At the minimum, you should have been in that social group yourself with someone like that around.

Woman rationalize selfish decisions that they have already made and use sex to get their way when shit goes sideways. She banged you like a rabbit because in her brain it absolves her of having emotionally cheated on you with druggie MMO guy. Then she used bangtime to try and leverage you into agreeing to letting her fuck this dude. She manipulated you. I am sorry you can't see it, but it happened. And until you make her REALLY choose to either honor her fucking vows or to run off for her mmo side slam piece, your life is going to be nightmarish and your self respect is going to wither and die.

Also, don't waste time and money on marriage counseling, as they pretty much fail all the time anyhow. Plus you might get some fruitloops fucking swinging is cool libshit counselor who makes things worse. If you want to shake her noggin with an outside party, reach out to her parents and let them know what went down. Get it out in the open and clue her own family out of the gate to whats happening, because she WILL feed anyone you both know a line of bullshit to make her look better in their eyes if you don't beat her to the punch.

Foler · Aug 18, 2021

GuardianX said:
God this is gunna be a long, chain quote reply...here we go bitches..

DIVORCE...

I don't know if it will happen, all I know is for now, better or worse (hahah....ahh) I'm going to stick it out. Likely a dumb idea, every time I make a "Nice guy" move in my life I end up getting fucked. I would rather go out of this knowing I tried my hardest and fought to keep my house my home with my kids and then later in life have their respect then walk out now in a time when all they would see is Dad packing his bags and leaving. Idealistic? Sure.

@Lendarios I read what you posted, I don't have anyone ignored here aside from a couple asian girl spammers in FSR. Honestly I didn't LIKE doing the phone part, I wish I didn't have to do it. But i logged into my account and saw:

View attachment 367774

When a normal month looks like:

View attachment 367775

I clicked the history and saw (this is filtered to ONLY this number / location BTW):

View attachment 367776

Not gunna bail, I'm not going to treat my family as disposable. I will do as I have been doing though and keep a folder with all the records of calls, the phone logs and the discord info dump. I have made it exceedingly clear what was at stake for her and she has come to terms with the level of loss the other person would experience in all this, Zero.

I agree in the insanity of the statement. I think it was one of 2 things, she THOUGHT / rationalized that I would be okay because of the various stories I would tell her (lookign back, I can't say that was a great idea...but it did spice up the sex) OR it was a hail-mary of "Hey I PLANNED to let you know!" I'm more for the former than the latter at this point.

I don't know why she cheated, she doesn't know why she cheated (or doesn't want to say). My desire in all this would be for her to receive help and understand the "Why" of it all. As said at the top, this will likely fuck me in the long term.

The other guy is out of the picture. I haven't talked to him since the call. I have been telling her that basically this guy stood to lose nothing while she would lose everything. During the call with him he did say "Sorry" but I feel like it was more out of requirement than genuine repentance. This is a person I had been gaming with for about a year off and on, placed trust in him, my kids and I played small time multi-player games with him and his brother and finally when my wife was complaining about not having a friend group, I connected her to a group he was with tangentially. Immediately he started flirting with and getting nudes from a girl in that group who was single. Through the course of playing with them she (single girl) basically fucked that relationship into the ground. I am PRETTY sure that my wife was a rebound for him. I am not certain of this guess but it fits.

As for what she has been doing, she has been holding to all the things she has said she would do.

This was too long for me to read but y’all gotta stop looking at porn and showing it to each other and all that type of shit. Along with those weird storytelling fantasies.

slippery slopes etc

Kirun · Aug 18, 2021

Phazael said:
This is actually very simple. Wife whom you were her first romantic partner gets on the internet and some sleezed druggie waves his dick around and convinces her she can get things from him that she is not getting from you, i.e. the Bored Housewife meets the Internet routine that has been around since the days of AOL chat rooms. When you say things like "she has never experienced true loss" also tells me that you are dealing with a side dash of Disney Princess Syndrome as well.

Trust is the foundation of all relationships that are going to work, romantic or otherwise. If you cannot trust someone without spying on them, you are not really in a good place. Right now, you do not have a wife. You have someone you do not trust that you are watching like a delinquent teenager because you don't want to toss out all the time you put into the relationship. So, as stated, you have given her basically all the power in this situation. When she finally does step out (and make no mistake, if she is sending nudies to some druggie and sneaking away to sext him, she will at some point) she will justify it in her mind as you being too controlling and paranoid. You cannot live your life like that long term. It will destroy you. It will destroy your relationship with your kids.

The sooner you realize this and move on, the better chance you have to not fuck up your kids and to start over with someone who is not going to try to pull a Lindsey with the first online thirsty guy who pays attention to her. And really, as hard as this might be to hear, you put your wife in a social group with a dude who you knew for less that a couple years and had already blown up one social group by banging someone in it. At the minimum, you should have been in that social group yourself with someone like that around.

Woman rationalize selfish decisions that they have already made and use sex to get their way when shit goes sideways. She banged you like a rabbit because in her brain it absolves her of having emotionally cheated on you with druggie MMO guy. Then she used bangtime to try and leverage you into agreeing to letting her fuck this dude. She manipulated you. I am sorry you can't see it, but it happened. And until you make her REALLY choose to either honor her fucking vows or to run off for her mmo side slam piece, your life is going to be nightmarish and your self respect is going to wither and die.

Also, don't waste time and money on marriage counseling, as they pretty much fail all the time anyhow. Plus you might get some fruitloops fucking swinging is cool libshit counselor who makes things worse. If you want to shake her noggin with an outside party, reach out to her parents and let them know what went down. Get it out in the open and clue her own family out of the gate to whats happening, because she WILL feed anyone you both know a line of bullshit to make her look better in their eyes if you don't beat her to the punch.

Couldn't agree more with this.

GuardianX is 1000% suffering from the sunken cost fallacy. It sucks, wish it didn't happen, but this is never going to "work out".

I'll give you a thought experiment,

GuardianX : I'll bet you $500 (mods can verify it, ban me if I don't deliver, etc.) that she does this again within 5 years. Are you willing to take that bet? If you aren't, you need to think long and hard about why not and wonder if that's how you want to live the rest of your life..

GuardianX · Aug 18, 2021

Kirun said:
Couldn't agree more with this. GuardianX is 1000% suffering from the sunken cost fallacy. It sucks, wish it didn't happen, but this is never going to "work out".

I'll give you a thought experiment, GuardianX : I'll bet you $500 (mods can verify it, ban me if I don't deliver, etc.) that she does this again within 5 years. Are you willing to take that bet? If you aren't, you need to think long and hard about why not and wonder if that's how you want to live the rest of your life..

And with this I'm out.

I appreciate all the input people have given, better or worse, I'm going to go down the road I described.

Plan for failure, pray for success.

moonarchia · Aug 18, 2021

GuardianX said:
And with this I'm out.

I appreciate all the input people have given, better or worse, I'm going to go down the road I described.

Plan for failure, pray for success.

Good luck! No matter how it goes down, I hope you will at least talk to a divorce lawyer as a CYA. You are not the first FOHer to have to go through all this. It's shitty. Just put yourself and your kids as top priority until your wife gets her shit together, or doesn't as the case may be.

Soygen · Aug 18, 2021

Good luck, man.

Koushirou · Aug 18, 2021

Good luck. No matter how it goes down, just make sure to love the shit out of your kids.

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