Marriage and the Power of Divorce

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Big Phoenix

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I dunno, yall treat Divorce like it's a magic cure all.
Its not that divorce makes it all better.

Its that divorce improves the situation.
Paint me one solid win in this situation that doesn't just end with me having more self worth because my self worth is almost directly tied to my kids.
As others said all being in a dysfunctional marriage will do is teach your kids dysfunctional relationships are okay and what they should strive for.
 
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Kithani

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Paint me one solid win in this situation that doesn't just end with me having more self worth because my self worth is almost directly tied to my kids.
Did you ever hear the tragedy (and later redemption) of Darth Onoes the Unwise?
 
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SeanDoe1z1

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Sounds like he hit her w some real consequences and laid down the law.

Women love that shit. I’m bad at exercising it myself, but it doesn’t make it less true.


Without going down the history I was in a similar situation. Both of us were quite terrible to each other. At the end of the day I was cutting ties, shit got real for her (she made her peace with leaving me, makes her own money) and ultimately at the end of it wanted to show me she was trying because I already made the deep changes for myself. I became the one who was not wanting to be with her.

It took a female Christian counselor to tell her to basically submit if you want this man to trust you ever again. Phone, email, FaceTime if needed. It goes both ways—I’m out of town and will make a good effort to make her comfortable even though there’s never been a “there there”


It has worked, but the damage is there. The alternative it something I didn’t want but was willing to go through with. I could see us being one of those couples that divorce when kids are grown. Maybe not, but we’re having our 4th soon. It’s hard to love someone after that, so you just become comfortable.


Never going to be roses but I think it’s important to try to maintain enough independence enough between the two and having those hard boundaries to maintain a healthy state.


And don’t treat her as an equal emotionally, because they aren’t and it will only burn you. Women are irrational selfish children when it comes to emotions. I temper myself and have to remind myself long terms I’ll never think like a female, but the common denominator is that they will all be able to justify doing really shitty things to people because of their inherent entitlement. It doesn’t mean being a simping pathetic person. It just means save the bullshit for another day and focus energy towards something positive (yourself, job, kids) while keeping the boundary’s intact.

It feels like this won’t apply to 95% of problem relationships, just having a women admit they weren’t worthy of trust is a monumental task in itself. Ownership is a hell of a obstacle in that regard, usually only comes at the precipice of the breaking point.
 
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Tmac

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Without going down the history I was in a similar situation. Both of us were quite terrible to each other. At the end of the day I was cutting ties, shit got real for her (she made her peace with leaving me, makes her own money) and ultimately at the end of it wanted to show me she was trying because I already made the deep changes for myself. I became the one who was not wanting to be with her.

It took a female Christian counselor to tell her to basically submit if you want this man to trust you ever again. Phone, email, FaceTime if needed. It goes both ways—I’m out of town and will make a good effort to make her comfortable even though there’s never been a “there there”


It has worked, but the damage is there. The alternative it something I didn’t want but was willing to go through with. I could see us being one of those couples that divorce when kids are grown. Maybe not, but we’re having our 4th soon. It’s hard to love someone after that, so you just become comfortable.


Never going to be roses but I think it’s important to try to maintain enough independence enough between the two and having those hard boundaries to maintain a healthy state.


And don’t treat her as an equal emotionally, because they aren’t and it will only burn you. Women are irrational selfish children when it comes to emotions. I temper myself and have to remind myself long terms I’ll never think like a female, but the common denominator is that they will all be able to justify doing really shitty things to people because of their inherent entitlement. It doesn’t mean being a simping pathetic person. It just means save the bullshit for another day and focus energy towards something positive (yourself, job, kids) while keeping the boundary’s intact.

It feels like this won’t apply to 95% of problem relationships, just having a women admit they weren’t worthy of trust is a monumental task in itself. Ownership is a hell of a obstacle in that regard, usually only comes at the precipice of the breaking point.

How's your sex life?
 

Tmac

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I dunno, yall treat Divorce like it's a magic cure all.

As I see it, by at least doing what I want in this, I MAY POSSIBLY avoid alimony + child support and 1/2 the time I already get with my kids.

Never mention the dating pool these days is absolutely shit for people in our demographics unless you wanna try to score a divorcee in your demograpics from a local church and pray she wasn't divorced for that very fucking thing as well.

Paint me one solid win in this situation that doesn't just end with me having more self worth because my self worth is almost directly tied to my kids.

Setting boundaries, even separating, establishing consequences, making changes in your own life to not be an enabler, etc. are not divorce.

There's a whole lot of runway before you get to divorce. But you're not even getting into the pilot seat.
 
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SeanDoe1z1

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How's your sex life?


More “healthy” than before, probably less frequency during pregnancy but honestly that’s more from my end too because I’m not nearly drop dead in love with her anymore. Like hard to cum type thing but overall I’d say better. It’s less of a priority as age, once per week maybe twice a month. It varies.

She bought herself tits. That was nice I guess. I’m openly despondent about the whole thing. We have our lives, get along and our committed to each other. She’s 40, I’m 33. We’ve been together 10 years.

My career is ramping up, hers is in a comfortable position. The love for my kids is more than enough to work through any issues but that line is pretty firm in the sand now. I’m not hesitant to “burn it all down” if that gets crossed again but where I would move is about 90 miles away.


Doesn’t make it any less hard. It helps we don’t dislike each other. I guess I just expected her to be a better person when we were near our worst, but it’s often the closest to us that hurt each other. I’m in no delusion, I was a horrible partner as well.


I guess my point is a “hard reset” is possible, but it seems like a rarity. We’re going on about 18 months. I could still go pull up her phone if I wanted too type scenario. I don’t, let’s be real though - women aren’t very good at hiding these things to anyone worth a damn anyway.


And I should say things I changed myself were more inward changes. Stopped being a loser type thing, no drinking, smoking, more dependable dad, try to be in shape, throw out the relationship maintenance now and then.

It seems all very biologically primal, because it is.

Women and men are not equal in terms of a lot of things, biggest lie I ever believed growing up. Our relationship works much better when I am the “rock”. I have loosened up the financial stress a lot too, we maintain 401ks, IRAs but honestly just let money sit and use as needed.


Removing that stressor lifted some weight. But honestly she earns just as much as me. Like we have a new car coming, her entire thing is “can we afford it , whataboughts”.


Yes, we’ll be fine, even though it’s more expensive than I normally would want. It’s better to keep the focus on the basics; happiness and kids.
 
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pysek

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My ex-brother-in-law caught his wife cheating in a similar way. He went to work everyday, and she got a job where she worked from home. One day he comes home and sits down at the computer and there is a minimized photo window. He didn't recognize the icon (super computer illiterate) and clicks it, only to show a pic of his wife topless in their room. He calls my ex-wife and asks if I can come help him with a computer issue and that's its very important. I think he needs help finding a file or something and get hit with "I think my wife is cheating on me.. can you look at the computer and find out?".

So yeah, super easy to find tons of shit hidden by an idiot. She's not met anyone in real life as far as I can tell, all online stuff, but she's talked about it with a couple guys. She was talking to like 9 guys all in all. It looked like that's what she was doing most days instead of her actual job. So, the dude is crying (they had like a 4yr old kid and had been dating since high school - they were mid 20's), and I tell him he can come stay with us. He wants to confront her and make her leave the house, she broke the family she can pay the consequences sort of thing.

Anyway, he confronts her, she breaks down and begs for forgiveness. He ends up giving her and ultimatum. She has to return to in person work, get a flip phone he manages, delete all social media stuff, she can only be on the computer if he is with her, etc. Basically he just went "I can't trust you, I don't know that I ever will again. The only way we stay together is if you cut all this shit out of your life." and she agreed.

That was like... 12 years ago? They are still together. I honestly don't know if she ever got another smartphone or anything, I know she has no Facebook account. She ended up taking up a ton of hobbies that fill her free time, got super into long distance running, and works full time.

It's fucking crazy to me, I would have just been done with the relationship, but they basically changed their situation from a partnership, to a 1950's style man of the house thing, and made it work. No idea if that just made both of their lives worse, or if this was actually for the best.

So that's an option. lol
It's almost like where there's a will...
 

Tmac

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More “healthy” than before, probably less frequency during pregnancy but honestly that’s more from my end too because I’m not nearly drop dead in love with her anymore. Like hard to cum type thing but overall I’d say better. It’s less of a priority as age, once per week maybe twice a month. It varies.

She bought herself tits. That was nice I guess. I’m openly despondent about the whole thing. We have our lives, get along and our committed to each other. She’s 40, I’m 33. We’ve been together 10 years.

My career is ramping up, hers is in a comfortable position. The love for my kids is more than enough to work through any issues but that line is pretty firm in the sand now. I’m not hesitant to “burn it all down” if that gets crossed again but where I would move is about 90 miles away.


Doesn’t make it any less hard. It helps we don’t dislike each other. I guess I just expected her to be a better person when we were near our worst, but it’s often the closest to us that hurt each other. I’m in no delusion, I was a horrible partner as well.


I guess my point is a “hard reset” is possible, but it seems like a rarity. We’re going on about 18 months. I could still go pull up her phone if I wanted too type scenario. I don’t, let’s be real though - women aren’t very good at hiding these things to anyone worth a damn anyway.

Have you thought about attending a marriage conference? The scenario you're describing seems like 1/1000th of what your marriage could be in the healthiest sense.

My wife and I had only been married for 18 months when reached the end of our rope and attended a particular marriage conference I could send you. It's for Christian believers and depends a lot on asking the Holy Spirit for direction (which legit works), but it transformed our marriage.

There wasn't cheating or anything, but I literally printed divorce papers and now we're in a really good spot. Maybe even thriving? There's still things I need to work through to connect better spiritually and emotionally, but she's basically a different woman today and it has a lot to do with what I've done to help her feel safe, loved, and pursued.

When I got married I had no idea how spiritual and emotion marriage was and treated it very similarly to how I treated our dating relationship. I've been able to make a lot of changes in this regard. A lot of my perspective on marriage was influenced by my parents relationship, which has never been that emotionally or spiritally connected, so a lot of what I "should have been doing" in marriage was way off. The marriage conference we attended cast a lot of vision for me for how God intended marriage to look in a physical, emotional, and spiritual sense.

For example, did you know that women experience dopamine by sharing and men can only reach average female dopamine levels in orgasm?

Did you know that studies have shown men who only have sex monthly or quarterly are 4x more likely to die from heart disease?

Did you know that women who don't share their emotions regularly are 6x more likely to die from heart disease?

Wild stuff.
 
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SeanDoe1z1

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My negativity here is more of a reflection of my inner monologue. I’m much more positive in my relationship and day to day. I mean, you have to be.

We share a lot of joy together, I am a mildly depressive person for a lot of reasons. It’s hard to not be black pilled lately. But it doesn’t mean I’m outwardly that way. Sobriety is a helluva drug, for example. Forcing my kids to go bike riding today doing quintessential “dad” stuff.


I made a mistake by thinking my wife would be strong, Independent and all that. Deep down they want a partner with clear goals and come along for the ride. Not into the spiritual stuff, but I’m not discounting it’s uses. I’ve had counselors straight up say we’re wasting money and they no longer want to see us. But like I said, in a much better spot now.



The point I was trying get across that it takes 100% from both sides. Nothing else is acceptable.
 

Izo

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That’s some mighty preacher induced horse shit you post, dumb stuff. Jesus (!) sure didn‘t teach you about confounders, induction/deduction or reason.
 
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Fucker

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That’s some mighty preacher induced horse shit you post, dumb stuff. Jesus (!) sure didn‘t teach you about confounders, induction/deduction or reason.
You dont have the holy spirit, you fat-kneed neolith you
 
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The_Black_Log Foler

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That’s some mighty preacher induced horse shit you post, dumb stuff. Jesus (!) sure didn‘t teach you about confounders, induction/deduction or reason.
Expected better from you izo. PATHETIC.
 
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Izo

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Expected better from you izo. PATHETIC.
the lion king shame GIF
 
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Phazael

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I dunno, yall treat Divorce like it's a magic cure all.

As I see it, by at least doing what I want in this, I MAY POSSIBLY avoid alimony + child support and 1/2 the time I already get with my kids.

Never mention the dating pool these days is absolutely shit for people in our demographics unless you wanna try to score a divorcee in your demograpics from a local church and pray she wasn't divorced for that very fucking thing as well.

Paint me one solid win in this situation that doesn't just end with me having more self worth because my self worth is almost directly tied to my kids.
It is not a magic cure all. But prolonging the suffering is far worse for all involved. The longer you let this open wound go on untreated, the more you suffer and the more longer before you can regroup to move on with your life. Divorce is not certain in your case (at face value based on what you have said seems likely but nothing is certain), but you have to do SOMETHING or else things will only deteriorate. If you don't respect yourself enough to do something ,she never will either. And that is a recipe for misery.
 

elbas

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One other non-obvious effect of being in a long-term bad situation is that your self-confidence and feelings of self-worth trickle lower over time. You think you are good now, but the longer this goes on the more it wears on you and the worse you feel about yourself. If you're not careful, it will sap your motivation to fix the situation. You may just end up wallowing in it without the mental strength to pull yourself out. You need to keep staying energized to fix the situation. If you feel yourself giving up and getting resigned to the fact that you're in a crappy marriage, fix it or get out. And that's not just for you. It's also for your kids. If your kids grow up with a joyless dad who doesn't care about anything, it will affect who they become as adults. Your kids would be better off in a broken home with a happy dad rather than in a miserable house with both parents who are just slogging through the years.
 
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Tmac

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One other non-obvious effect of being in a long-term bad situation is that your self-confidence and feelings of self-worth trickle lower over time. You think you are good now, but the longer this goes on the more it wears on you and the worse you feel about yourself. If you're not careful, it will sap your motivation to fix the situation. You may just end up wallowing in it without the mental strength to pull yourself out. You need to keep staying energized to fix the situation. If you feel yourself giving up and getting resigned to the fact that you're in a crappy marriage, fix it or get out. And that's not just for you. It's also for your kids. If your kids grow up with a joyless dad who doesn't care about anything, it will affect who they become as adults. Your kids would be better off in a broken home with a happy dad rather than in a miserable house with both parents who are just slogging through the years.

Should really contextualize this better. Kids will always be most happy in a household w parents who love each other and have a healthy marriage.

Anything less than that and kids are going to be unhappy. Divorces fuck up kids. Unhealthy marriages fuck up kids.
 
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Dandai

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Should really contextualize this better. Kids will always be most happy in a household w parents who love each other and have a healthy marriage.

Anything less than that and kids are going to be unhappy. Divorces fuck up kids. Unhealthy marriages fuck up kids.
It’s at least possible that one or both could find someone they actually like being around and can have a healthy relationship with. Unlikely maybe, but possible 😬
 
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Tmac

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It’s at least possible that one or both could find someone they actually like being around and can have a healthy relationship with. Unlikely maybe, but possible 😬

I'm just parroting things from the experts here, but the general rule of thumb w a divorce is that whatever issues you currently have you take into your next relationship. So, if you enable a woman with bad boundaries in your first marriage, it's very likely you're going to enable a woman with bad boundaries again. Why? Because there's a reason you enable women with bad boundaries.

Obvious exceptions for people who are able to recognize the issues that they brought into their first marriage and proactively try to address them.
 
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