Marriage and the Power of Divorce

Nice 666th post. Might as well go make bad decisions on that note

Khane_sl said:

Come on now. I agree that the lines are blurring and many women seem to have an entitled attitude where they receive all the benefits of gender equality without any of the responsibility. But I know for damn sure you and I are a lot alike in the fact that neither one of us want to take care of a woman for the rest of our lives. We want a woman who is self sufficient and at least a little ambitious. So in that regard even you don't want gender roles of the 50's

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Agreed, I would ideally want "true equality" and not this double-standard feminist crap that is so mainstream today, but absent that I'll take the 1950's role over a situation where I feel I do most everything and all I get in return is whining and sex.

Just like you, I want an educated, ambitious, and successful woman, but in reality you have to admit they're a rare breed. Most have priced themselves out of the market, specifically because they cling to the traditional values that benefit them, while dispensing with those that don't. Most women that make say 150K a year, want a guy that makes equal or more, still want you to foot the bill for the date(s), and be the "romance conductor"-- not much different than their less successful brethren. For me, an educated/successful woman provides a hope for a relationship/marriage where we can mutually offload all the now blurred gender related duties, thereby creating a far less nebulous and contentious environment around these responsibilities. In other words we both work, we both contribute financially, we both have the stresses of a real job, and we've both decided to outsource cleaning/cooking/groceries/child care to someone else. It basically simulates the aspect of clear "segregation of duties" that you would find in a '50's type relationship, except it's based on true equality rather than archaic gender roles.

I'm pretty sure Onoes already had the court hearing on what he owes his ex. I'm not sure where Phaz thinks he can get fucked over. If he still can, no divorced man is safe because I guess court orders don't matter.

Phazael_sl said:

@Wombat=
Definitely some truth to that. And really, my relationship is not in any way the traditional mold Khane is suggesting, anyhow. The wife and I are both nerds, she makes way more money than I do, and we don't do any of the traditional role shit. On top of that, we spend all of our free time together and share all of our hobbies, bar a couple exceptions. Not exactly Ozzy and Harriet. But I know I am in the minority on that and I appreciate how awesome my situation is. But then again, I never went in for treating women like Xbox achievements, even though I have a certain amount of ingrained old fashioned behavior when it comes to treating women with respect.

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Yeah, I'm not sure how old you are, but the "younger" generation of guys (particularly gamers) have it a lot better, because it's more accepted for that generation to play video games, including women. Women around my age (41) that are interested in gaming practically don't exist (or at least I can't find them), and if anything look upon gaming with derision and as a "red flag". Meanwhile girls in their twenties consider it pretty normal, or even play themselves. Growing up I remember telling myself that I would immediately marry any chick that could kick my ass in Street Fighter II-- that was basically my dream girl at the time, and would still go a long way today as well... So, it sounds like you're either my age and got the White Unicorn, or are a bit younger where that dream is more achievable. In any case, if you ever get divorced please have your wife PM me, 'cause I want your setup

They may think of it as a red flag if you actually bring it up. It is pretty easy to just not say "I play a ton of video games" on the first date.

Being a 29 year old man who just did the dating thing I can tell you with 100% certainty gaming or being a "gamer" still has a negative association with the vast majority of women out there. That is why you do not bring it up until they get to know you and realize that you can separate virtual life from real life. Also the dudes who constantly say they want a girl who plays games ... why? Why does she need to be fixated on every aspect of your life? I play video games to get away and unwind.

Yeah, just to clarify, people keep mentioning my ex being a spoiled princess and fucking me? She's been working since she was 16, as far as I know she's never gone more than a couple of weeks without a job, and that was only when she moved to be with me. She makes like 30k a year, not great, but not awful either. She can handle herself just fine.

As far as her taking me to court and screwing me. What he is referring too is that when we were divorced we requested no child support be given. I am giving her money every month in the amount I was legally supposed to give her anywhere. Every month I write a check out that says "Child support, Jan 2015" etc on it, which she cashes and has available. The reason for this are because when we were getting divorced, she was looking at some apartments that were nice but for people with lower incomes. You couldn't make more than 29k or something (which she was right at) to live there. In addition, she has talked about trying to get financial aid to go to college. So, her having child support inflates those numbers.

I'm sure she could take me to court in 10 years and go "I agreed not to take child support because I was in fear of my life, but now I want all 10 years back pay!" or something. But I would have a copy of every single check, labeled child support. Could I get fucked? Yes. Am I worried about it? No.

Tenks_sl said:

They may think of it as a red flag if you actually bring it up. It is pretty easy to just not say "I play a ton of video games" on the first date.

Being a 29 year old man who just did the dating thing I can tell you with 100% certainty gaming or being a "gamer" still has a negative association with the vast majority of women out there. That is why you do not bring it up until they get to know you and realize that you can separate virtual life from real life. Also the dudes who constantly say they want a girl who plays games ... why? Why does she need to be fixated on every aspect of your life? I play video games to get away and unwind.

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Yeah, you definitely don't go full bore on the 1st date and claim you play a ton of video games, but even a casual "I like playing some Civilization after work to relax" gets you a questionable stare most of the time. As for wanting a chick that plays video games, it allows you to kill two birds with one stone. Basically you get to do what you'd normally want to do (play video games) while simultaneously fulfilling your duties for "quality time together". Plus, call me crazy, but a hot chick that can talk min/maxxing is a major fucking turn on.

It's this thread, but no clue, it would have been back in Dec 2013 when the whole thing started. She is sane and rational, and we had a good relationship, married 11 years. The last couple years she got big into fitness, I kind of became the babysitter/breadwinner while she focused on her. I wasn't happy, but I thought she was happy. A friend called me to tell me she had sent him naked pictures, she said she was drunk and it wouldn't happen again. 6 months later I found texts between her and another dude on her phone clearly trying to get something going. We went to counseling, things got better. Then she met a girl who partied nonstop, and she was out every night until 2-4am, and I finally put my foot down and said enough. We talked, and she felt like she never experienced being single (we met when she was 18, I was her first serious boyfriend) and that she wonders whats out there. I hadn't been happy in a long time either, so we split amicably.

All these dudes want to burn her at the stake for possibly/probably cheating on me, but I've said before I would have done the exact same thing if I had the opportunity. I've never cheated on anyone, but a couple years of not being happy makes you go "I would pay money to just spend the night with someone who I could just fucking snoop, kiss, and pretend to have something with." So yeah, she's not batshit crazy, she's easily the most responsible and laid back girl I've ever met, just a bit of a prude, and fairly selfish. Other than that though, she's done nothing but make every single step of the divorce, and time after it smooth as silk.

A couple of weeks ago I got invited to a 5 day camping thing, I was supposed to have the kids for 3 days of it, I called her and asked if she would mind trading weekends with me. Sure, no problem. So, its not like I don't ask her for favors as well. /shrug

Frenzied Wombat_sl said:

Yeah, you definitely don't go full bore on the 1st date and claim you play a ton of video games, but even a casual "I like playing some Civilization after work to relax" gets you a questionable stare most of the time. As for wanting a chick that plays video games, it allows you to kill two birds with one stone. Basically you get to do what you'd normally want to do (play video games) while simultaneously fulfilling your duties for "quality time together". Plus, call me crazy, but a hot chick that can talk min/maxxing is a major fucking turn on.

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I think there is a big difference based on the kinds of games you play, at least in my dating experience. In my experience, saying "I play video games" even on the first date is nothing bad, and I think most chicks would assume you sit on the couch and play Call of Duty like every other 20 - 30-something guy. However, saying "I play World of Warcraft" or "I play Civilization" or even "I playcomputergames" is going to be viewed as much nerdier and less socially acceptable. At that point, you might as well just say you spend your weekends playing Cones of Dunshire.

McCheese_sl said:

I think there is a big difference based on the kinds of games you play, at least in my dating experience. In my experience, saying "I play video games" even on the first date is nothing bad, and I think most chicks would assume you sit on the couch and play Call of Duty like every other 20 - 30-something guy. However, saying "I play World of Warcraft" or "I play Civilization" or even "I playcomputergames" is going to be viewed as much nerdier and less socially acceptable. At that point, you might as well just say you spend your weekends playing Cones of Dunshire.

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Seriously. I sit on the couch and play dark souls for 4 hours? No problem. I go into office and play 20 minutes of wow? FUCK I HATE THAT GAME WHY DOES IT STEAL YOUR LIFE YOU LOVE IT MORE THAN YOU LOVE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

taebin_sl said:

Seriously. I sit on the couch and play dark souls for 4 hours? No problem. I go into office and play 20 minutes of wow? FUCK I HATE THAT GAME WHY DOES IT STEAL YOUR LIFE YOU LOVE IT MORE THAN YOU LOVE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

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Women fucking hate MMO's because there is no pause feature. Therefore when they nag you about something while you're playing, you can't even pause it for a minute to even pretend to care what they're whining about. I swear I've had girlfriends (back when I played EQ/WoW) that intentionally would fucking ask me to do some lame task that could wait, right in the middle of some raid, simply so they could rage when I told them I can't for the next X hours. In their minds the fact that the task was unimportant was irrelevant, all they could perceive out of the situation was "the video game is obviously more important than me", as if your lack of willingness to take the garbage out NOW would also translate into letting them bleed out on the floor from some injury because you're on a PoF raid.

Onoes_sl said:

It's this thread, but no clue, it would have been back in Dec 2013 when the whole thing started. She is sane and rational, and we had a good relationship, married 11 years. The last couple years she got big into fitness, I kind of became the babysitter/breadwinner while she focused on her. I wasn't happy, but I thought she was happy. A friend called me to tell me she had sent him naked pictures, she said she was drunk and it wouldn't happen again. 6 months later I found texts between her and another dude on her phone clearly trying to get something going. We went to counseling, things got better. Then she met a girl who partied nonstop, and she was out every night until 2-4am, and I finally put my foot down and said enough. We talked, and she felt like she never experienced being single (we met when she was 18, I was her first serious boyfriend) and that she wonders whats out there. I hadn't been happy in a long time either, so we split amicably.

All these dudes want to burn her at the stake for possibly/probably cheating on me, but I've said before I would have done the exact same thing if I had the opportunity. I've never cheated on anyone, but a couple years of not being happy makes you go "I would pay money to just spend the night with someone who I could just fucking snoop, kiss, and pretend to have something with." So yeah, she's not batshit crazy, she's easily the most responsible and laid back girl I've ever met, just a bit of a prude, and fairly selfish. Other than that though, she's done nothing but make every single step of the divorce, and time after it smooth as silk.

A couple of weeks ago I got invited to a 5 day camping thing, I was supposed to have the kids for 3 days of it, I called her and asked if she would mind trading weekends with me. Sure, no problem. So, its not like I don't ask her for favors as well. /shrug

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Dude, they need the Drama and if you can not going to make with the new goods, they are going to rehash the old goods.

You do some dumb stuff, but I don't think the divorce and its handling is one of them.

Nester_sl said:

You do some dumb stuff, but I don't think the divorce and its handling is one of them.

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Agree in general, except for the child support situation. I don't think he's "dumb", but I do think he was too nice for his own good or too naive thinking the legal system follows common sense if she decides to cash in later (not always the case). Also, if she told him to pay under the table to artificially deflate her income and get benefits, wouldn't that make him potentially complicit in fraud?

His situation is different than mine, but I would be very uncomfortable with that arrangement.

I would never help my ex move once I got her out of my house. But that doesn't mean he's a doormat, either. As he mentioned, with shared kid custody there are favor trade-offs and he is helping move his kids as well. Whatevs.

Haast_sl said:

I would never help my ex move once I got her out of my house. But that doesn't mean he's a doormat, either. As he mentioned, with shared kid custody there are favor trade-offs and he is helping move his kids as well. Whatevs.

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Moving? Maybe, had she not cheated on him and withheld the beejizzles. But doing her taxes and defending her honor on internet forums? Yikes.

Frenzied Wombat_sl said:

Every dude would probably prefer the "gender roles of the 1950's". As a guy today, you are still expected to fulfill all your circa 20th century male duties, such as paying for dates, opening doors, being the initiator, being "spontaneous and romantic", lifting/hanging/moving shit, etc. But women have managed to shed most of the traditional gender responsibilities that balanced the equation. A chick will confidently and unabashedly proclaim that it's the man's job to take out the trash, but think of what reaction you'd get if you said "it's the woman's job to cook".

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Very false. I'm a guy and I don't want that; that doesn't sound like much of a partnership.

Also, back then, the women doing the "women's work" didn't have jobs. Now they do. Why should nothing change if that very big element changes?

I realize it was probably just an example off the top of your head, but if you think taking out the trash and cooking are equivalent activities, you're the one that's entitled.

Edit: Also I see now there was a whole other page of comments when I responded. I hate when I do that.

Again, I really feel like you are coming at it from an extreme angle. We both made mistakes and did shitty things. She could just as easily tell a story about how she got into great shape and bettered herself while her lazy slacker husband sat home playing video's games all the time. I'm just saying, neither of us is perfect. Also, it's not like I got fucked in the deal in any way, I kept the house for gods sake. I could sell that right now and make 20-30k easy I'm sure. In addition, I kept my 15k or so in savings, and she left with maybe $500 to her name. Seriously, I think everything was pretty fair, and we were both really happy with how things ended up. As for the taxes thing, her W2 showed up at my house, I called her and said "If you want me to just do it for you I can, I've got no plans tonight." which was true. I had it done before the episode of Better Call Saul I was watching finished. 1040 EZ, turbo tax. She has nothing so it was just fill in the boxes and be done.

I'm not saying she is a wonderful person, but she's a pretty fucking decent human being, and I'm still very close to her family. I was surprised she asked me for help with the bed, I certainly wouldn't ask her for help painting the house or anything, and if I had had other plans I would have just said no, but as it was, no big deal.

And man Phazael, she didn't convince me of anything, the child support thing was my idea to both try and help her out in the future, as well as get my kids a better place to live with her, and if I'm being completely honest, I'm planning on asking her to purchase their health insurance this year, which will be much cheaper for her due to her income. I am not doing anything to screw myself financially here.

Please stop making me white knight my fucking ex wife, because as much as we had some good years and I do genuinely think shes a good mom, I don't particularly have any interest in talking up her virtues either. There is a reason we aren't married, and I'm MUCH much happier not having to deal with her, other than the occasional her doing something nice, or asking a favor. If we didn't have kids I would no doubt not ever see or talk to her, I'm 100% sure of that, but since we do, this is an ideal situation.

Did I cover everything?

Give me a sec, I'll fill you guys in on my current situation.