Marriage and the Power of Divorce

I was just providing the amounts for context, is all. I have a head for numbers, so it's not like I have to really think hard to remember what I paid for her car or how much her CC was to pay off. Plus I use Quicken to track all of my personal finances, so that kind of reinforces shit when I'm categorizing transfers to her as "loan to friend" or whatever. I could literally print a report on that shit right now and it would be accurate. As far as the amount of the post spent discussing the money, that really was the main part of the conversation between the two of us, and I think it's where a lot of the issues stem from. And like I said, she did specifically say that she really appreciated the fact that I've never made her feel uncomfortable about the money or brought it up in a negative way. If she's feeling extremely uncomfortable about the money thing, it's 99% on her.

The aspect that I'd like some discussion on, if you gents would be so kind to indulge, would be the "expectations" thing. I still can't really wrap my mind around it. What do you "expect" from your girlfriends or wives. I mean with Khane it's obvious, that would be anal. But what else? Or is this some sort of woman code for other shit?

Cad_sl said:

Because thats what she brought up, so he's addressing what she's saying? Did I misread it or are you reading into what he's saying beyond what he said?

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I'm reading too deeply as indicated by me prefacing my initial post by saying I'm playing devil's advocate. But there were four listed reasons. He glanced over three of them and went deeply into the financial grievance. Possibly because it is less of a "feels" so he could better explain it. Possibly because that is the one he himself actually cares the most about.

Tenks_sl said:

I'm reading too deeply as indicated by me prefacing my initial post by saying I'm playing devil's advocate. But there were four listed reasons. He glanced over three of them and went deeply into the financial grievance. Possibly because it is less of a "feels" so he could better explain it. Possibly because that is the one he himself actually cares the most about.

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Trust me, I really don't. If we broke up tomorrow I'd tell her to not worry about paying me back a cent and probably even offer to help her out. Not that she'd accept it.

Eomer_sl said:

The aspect that I'd like some discussion on, if you gents would be so kind to indulge, would be the "expectations" thing. I still can't really wrap my mind around it. What do you "expect" from your girlfriends or wives. I mean with Khane it's obvious, that would be anal. But what else? Or is this some sort of woman code for other shit?

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I think it is related to the fact that you do everything for her. So she isn't identifying herself as a stable individual because you're taking care of all her problems and all her struggles. Needs a car? Eomer. Needs books? Eomer. And that is just the financial. I'm sure there are more non-material things where you're doing more in the relationship than she is. Like if she needs anything you're constantly there to fix it. I'm not saying is is logical but I'm sure she's feeling an over dependence upon you and that is freaking her out. Like when she couldn't pay for groceries? I probably wouldn't let that fly, personally. She's a human. She has no expenses outside of normal human student expenses. It sounds like she has no cash. I would have been like "Well, how are you going to pay for this lettuce?" But I'm also an asshole.

Eomer_sl said:

Trust me, I really don't. If we broke up tomorrow I'd tell her to not worry about paying me back a cent and probably even offer to help her out. Not that she'd accept it.

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That's ridiculous man why would you continue to help her out if you broke up? Maybe that's part of the problem, she feels you're a whipping post with her? If a woman is attracted to a man because of how he interacts with people and then he interacts with her in a completely different way that could cause issues. Would you just blindly help out anyone else in your life financially?

Cad_sl said:

It seems like she really does not want to be a kept woman, that she wants to feel meaningful to the relationship and lifestyle that you two enjoy. That she wants to achieve something on her own and not be Eomer's arm candy.

That doesn't really have much to do with you, it has to do with her. Remind me again what she's doing for a living or studying to do?

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He said childhood psych in his wall I think

Oh christ almighty. Run Eomer. Run.

She studies the psychology of children all day and then acts like a child when trying to communicate with you. She can't separate herself from her studies.

Eomer_sl said:

At this point it feels like for whatever reason her feelings for me are dissipating and instead of admitting that to herself she?s making up excuses or reasons as to why our relationship isn?t working.

She?ll just keep shutting me out more and more until I end it, and then when I do in her mind it?ll validate her thinking that I never truly considered her an equal in the relationship or some shit.

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You've pretty well identified what is going on here in these two lines. It seems pretty obvious that her feelings are waning and in typical female fashion, rather than look like the "bad guy", she's going to makeyourip off the band-aid to validate/justify it all to herself. It's ego preservation at work, mostly. In the meantime, she'll use you as a portable ATM and pretend that she feels "bad" or "unequal" about it. It's funny how terrible it supposedly makes her feel, yet it isn't quiiiiite bad enough to have burned through 12-15k dollars in nearly 3 years.

That's what makes it a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario. If he was as hard on her as I am when it comes to getting your shit together as a woman she'd be crying that she just wants someone to take care of her. He acts nonchalant and nice about it and she's pissed he doesn't care.

Eomer_sl said:

The aspect that I'd like some discussion on, if you gents would be so kind to indulge, would be the "expectations" thing. I still can't really wrap my mind around it. What do you "expect" from your girlfriends or wives. I mean with Khane it's obvious, that would be anal. But what else? Or is this some sort of woman code for other shit?

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This is curious and I wish Lindz was still around to give a woman's perspective.

The only thing I could think of is very concrete concepts, and that might not be what she's looking to hear. DO you expect anything from her? Honesty? Commitment? (anal?). It seems like she has her hands full with school and work, so it's not like you can expect much from her outside of that. Try reversing the question to her, and her answers might give you some insight on what she might be looking for.

Khane_sl said:

That's what makes it a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario. If he was as hard on her as I am when it comes to getting your shit together as a woman she'd be crying that she just wants someone to take care of her. He acts nonchalant and nice about it and she's pissed he doesn't care.

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I don't think that is fair because it depends on the woman. I feel a relationship is about making both people the best they can be. It sounds more like she's concerned that this relationship is actually making her a more reliant person so she's actually seeing a downtick in herself. And yeah you can say "Well don't accept the money!" But I'm sure Eomer phrased in a way where it wasn't a question. He was going to give her to money like it or not.

I guess to pull from my own life my friend was living with a girl who was going to vet school to get her doctorate of cat psychology [kidding, its whatever a PhD is in vetting.] She had no cash but he still set the expectation of "These are the bills you have to pay." He pulled it from me where I had the same arrangement with my wife when we were dating. Was it hard on her to pay for the groceries every week? Yep. It was basically all her money. Was he extremely financially secure even paying for almost everything else? Yep. But sometimes to feel like a contributing member of a partnership you need to add something more than "You make me happy, babe!" It is good to make her pay for things and stretch even if you could actually make it easier. Because that is living. Unfortunately for Eomer I think this has devolved past the point of "Ok now you pay for the groceries and heat" but it may be a lesson for him to learn for future relationships.

Cooking may be a way she could contribute. You can ask for her specific recipes and compliment excessively.

Although, I kind of think it's bad to manipulate her into feeling valuable...it may be good long term.

Picasso_sl said:

Cooking may be a way she could contribute. You can ask for her specific recipes and compliment excessively.

Although, I kind of think it's bad to manipulate her into feeling valuable...it may be good long term.

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Until you get sick of eating this thing you fooled her into thinking you liked and eventually the jig is up when you can't take it anymore and have to come clean. And then that's your own damn fault.

If you have to trick someone into feeling valuable they just aren't very.... valuable. At least not to you.

It will compound the problem when Eomer tries to fix it by going out to eat 7 nights a week and is paying over 2k per month in restaurant bills!

Tenks_sl said:

It will compound the problem when Eomer tries to fix it by going out to eat 7 nights a week and is paying over 2k per month in restaurant bills!

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I know those feels (paying 2k a month in restaurant bills)

Eomer, off the cuff here I think an issue may be that society doesn't recognize many roles for women in a long-term relationship other than wife/partner or girlfriend/sextoy. The girlfriend status is appropriate for a few years, but I think many women feel that, drawn out for a long period, it becomes somewhat stigmatic. What's wrong with her (or you) that marriage isn't suitable? is a perfectly reasonable question that she may have been stressed out about. I know, without a doubt, that if I had not had proposed to my when I did (about 2 years into knowing her) that eventually it would have stressed her out to the point where she would have, ultimately, either forced the question with me or left.

You mentioned repeatedly that she wants to feel like a peer and doesn't; this is indicative of a person of character, they want to feel productive and respected. As it stands and without further knowledge of the two of you, I would look towards her wondering about her future (with or without you) and the idea that after a few more years you'll dump her for a younger woman (upgraded sextoy)ora woman you actually look at as a peer (someone that you respect). Since, ultimately, you haven't proposed and shes likely old-fashioned enough to expect you to do so. That this hasn't come up in three yearsisa red flag for a woman aware of how the world gets progressively more cruel towards women as they age while men concurrently rise in stature.

Eidal_sl said:

You mentioned repeatedly that she wants to feel like a peer and doesn't; this is indicative of a person of character, they want to feel productive and respected. As it stands and without further knowledge of the two of you, I would look towards her wondering about her future (with or without you) and the idea that after a few more years you'll dump her for a younger woman (upgraded sextoy)ora woman you actually look at as a peer (someone that you respect). Since, ultimately, you haven't proposed and shes likely old-fashioned enough to expect you to do so. That this hasn't come up in three yearsisa red flag for a woman aware of how the world gets progressively more cruel towards women as they age while men concurrently rise in stature.

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The only solution to that is dating a woman who's already got a career when you yourself have a good career.