Marvel Heroes 20xx

Khane_sl said:

So after a decent amount of playtime both with and without inflated rare item find and reading the forums and talking to others in my supergroup, RIF seems "bugged" when it comes to uniques.

From Friday to Sunday I was running with approximately 60% RIF and was getting approximately 1 unique every 2 to 2.5 x-def runs (I got a shitload of uniques this weekend). Yesterday I popped a ton of RIF which put me at 410% and in 16 x-def runs not a single unique dropped. Now I know that sample size is terrible and this is anecdotal but many other people seem to agree that something is up with RIF and unique drops. I got almost no whites with that much RIF which makes sense and is to be expected. I got a few more purple items and about the same amount of cosmics. I've had inflated RIF on several other occasions and while Artifact drops seem to go through the roof uniques plummet (though before the loot changes this weekend I didn't really notice it because they were much more rare)

I'm wondering if uniques get a separate roll, as in first the game rolls to see if an item will be "magic" (green or better) then if not does a separate roll to see if it will be unique. Upping RIF makes it so that first roll pretty much always succeeds and so the unique roll never gets initiated. That seems like a completely retarded system but worse systems have been in other games (or it's just a bug).

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there was a post a while back on the official forums about how the loot rolls worked, youd have to dig it up though.

Khane_sl said:

So after a decent amount of playtime both with and without inflated rare item find and reading the forums and talking to others in my supergroup, RIF seems "bugged" when it comes to uniques.

From Friday to Sunday I was running with approximately 60% RIF and was getting approximately 1 unique every 2 to 2.5 x-def runs (I got a shitload of uniques this weekend). Yesterday I popped a ton of RIF which put me at 410% and in 16 x-def runs not a single unique dropped. Now I know that sample size is terrible and this is anecdotal but many other people seem to agree that something is up with RIF and unique drops. I got almost no whites with that much RIF which makes sense and is to be expected. I got a few more purple items and about the same amount of cosmics. I've had inflated RIF on several other occasions and while Artifact drops seem to go through the roof uniques plummet (though before the loot changes this weekend I didn't really notice it because they were much more rare)

I'm wondering if uniques get a separate roll, as in first the game rolls to see if an item will be "magic" (green or better) then if not does a separate roll to see if it will be unique. Upping RIF makes it so that first roll pretty much always succeeds and so the unique roll never gets initiated. That seems like a completely retarded system but worse systems have been in other games (or it's just a bug).

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My findings are in line with yours, in that loot has always seemed fuck up in this game. Kinda just gave up on caring. My favorite is popping boosts on a bonus weekend and seeing loot get noticably worse.

Byr_sl said:

there was a post a while back on the official forums about how the loot rolls worked, youd have to dig it up though.

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I'm working on digging it up. Another thing @Khane and I noticed last night is the 25% SIF buff not showing from the Valentines Day artifact, also when they buff sometimes during weekends. I know at least the buffs they do for weekends is a server side thing (although they should show up in the character sheet imo)

My findings using RIF/SIF are the same, I see a shit ton of artifacts start dropping and runes. (Fucking shitty runes I can't use) I'd love to test it out, but I'm way to lazy. I wouldn't even know where to begin as far as what size sample, ranges of SIF/RIF, etc..Isn't there a college kid out there we can pay in hotpockets and natty ice to do this for us?

Found the post here...

https://forums.marvelheroes.com/disc...Comment_853216

I wish someone had saved the post Doomsaw had about loot, it explained it a bit more than that guy did. From what I understand, after it does the SiF check, the next roll determines item, with slot 1-5 being the most common. Once slot is determined then it decides on the actual rarity. Pretty sure artifacts are the first step up, and this is where I think RiF does actually effect drops. During the last Double RiF weekend boosted myself to 500%, and with the server bonus I was bring in huge amounts of artifacts per X-Defense run.

I still barely got any uniques, maybe 2 I think the whole weekend, though I have noticed since the Moon Knight patch I have gotten like 6 over the last few days. I believe lot of the complaints are what got them to put in that little notification you see when a Unique drops for someone near you.

That's a flawed system. As your RIF and SIF go up your chance for slot 1-5 drops go down, even if the percentage of rare 1-5 go up you'll hit a threshold where the chance for a slot 1-5 is so small your chance for a unique is dropping rather than rising.

Which is exactly what everyone I've talked to about this is seeing. Way more artifacts, way less uniques. Along with way more insignias, rings, cash shop drops and uru (don't even get me started on uru items, static stats that once you get the item you need you never need it to drop again, yet it steals drop chances for stuff you actually do need the more IF you have).

This also means that running X-Def to higher waves is actually detrimental if you are looking for uniques. Get to 10 for doops and leaving is already considered the most efficient for PUGs because you rarely get higher than 15 anyway but if loot truly does work that way there is literally 0 reason to go past wave 10. I'd just stick around to see if 11 is another doop or doombot wave.

I ran with 300% RIF using that 200% potion and other buffs for 12 hours. I found one unique on my Deadpool lol. This was even doing bugged Fisk runs. Prior to that I was running naked RIF and I got like 5 uniques in maybe 6 hours.

Assume 80% chance to drop slot 1-5, 2% chance for artifact, 2% chance for insignia, 2% chance for ring, 2% chance for core, 2% for special roll (are uru special?)

So 80% base chance for slot 1-5 on first roll

Assume 1% chance for unique so .01 *.80 = .008 or .8% chance for a unique on overall loot roll

Increase RIF by 500%. Now artifact, ring, insignia and core are 12% (2% base plus a 500% increase of that base value, 100% RIF would be 4%), special still has 2% and slot 1-5 has 50% chance (the leftover amount)

.50 *.06 (higher chance because of RIF) = .03, alright so it's a higher chance than base

Now increase SIF by 500% as well.

Now artifact ring insignia and core still have 12%, special now has 12% as well leaving slot 1-5 at 40%

.4 *.06 = .024, now it's lower than it was before we added SIF

Now increase RIF by 1000% and reset SIF

now artifact ring insig and core have 22% each leaving slot 1-5 at 10% chance (SIF still has 2% chance)

.1 * .11 (again, higher chance because of RIF) = .011, now it's almost as low as base

now add in 500% SIF, ring core insig and artifact at 22%, special at 12%, that's exactly 100%, now you have a 0% chance at a unique

Obviously these numbers are made up (and I doubt slot 1-5 can get to a 0% chance) but if my probability is correct you can see how increased RIF and SIF could completely kill your unique chances (especially if your chance for cosmic items interferes with chance for uniques after you hit a certain threshold) if what Kanglor said is true about how loot rolls. With X-Def increasing your RIF (and SIF?) after each wave and bonus weekends, synergy, gear and especially boosts 1000% would be quite easy to hit if you're in a decent X-Def. In fact, the higher the base chance for any loot other than slot 1-5 the worse this problem is.

Now I just need for someone to come in here and point out that I am a math retard (I am) and this shit is all wrong. I can't imagine they knowingly designed a system that way but it sure as shit seems like it.

I very well could have the part about the artifacts and beyond wrong...I only vaguely remember the post, it was last summer on their old forums. I do know he talked about how the slot somehow comes first, because one of the questions was if a Unique dropped did it then roll to see which slot it was, and Doomsaw said the slot was already determined before it became a unique. The artifacts part was just my thinking on it because when I hit 1000% I started getting a shit ton of artifacts, usually 1-2 per wave in X-Defense, though I was still getting blues/epics as well.

That loot designed said they can control drops almost any way they want, and also mentioned that adding new item types wouldn't actually lower your chance of getting a unique. I do wish they'd come out with a more in depth post about it, obviously without any numbers but just to show how it actually works. I do get how they have to be hypersensitive about this stuff due to actually selling Boosts, just imagine if it did come out that they did something like lower your chances loot, what a bomb that would be.

Gambit review on TC is great and may become my new main! He will definitely be an incredible hero once this review goes live (if they don't make a lot of changes from what's on TC today). I however am sad they are pushing back the Black Widow review, was looking forward to the type of play-style Black Widow would encompass.

Encourage everyone to download the TC and check him out.

Is Black Panther on there? I thought he was up next with Black Widow originally. I hate Gambit's voice overs.

Burned myself out on this game just before Ghostrider patch, but I played a shit-ton before that, and I noticed the same weird shit with RIF and uniques. Math nerds will tell you you're crazy, confirmation bias, small sample size, etc. It's bullshit. When you've played rpgs for as long as we have, you get a feel for loot drop percentages (anything rng based, really), and you can usually tell when something is out of whack. And in MH, it's a little more obvious than most.

I'll just say that I've always believed that this game would be a lot better if RIF boosts weren't a cash shop item.

No BP at this time... But seriously, check out Gambit on TC.

Khane_sl said:

Is Black Panther on there? I thought he was up next with Black Widow originally. I hate Gambit's voice overs.

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Raes_sl said:

Burned myself out on this game just before Ghostrider patch, but I played a shit-ton before that, and I noticed the same weird shit with RIF and uniques. Math nerds will tell you you're crazy, confirmation bias, small sample size, etc. It's bullshit. When you've played rpgs for as long as we have, you get a feel for loot drop percentages (anything rng based, really), and you can usually tell when something is out of whack. And in MH, it's a little more obvious than most.

I'll just say that I've always believed that this game would be a lot better if RIF boosts weren't a cash shop item.

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The one thing I'll say is even though item find seems bugged or wonky I still have a lot of fun playing the game while trying to gear up. It doesn't feel like a loot grind. I can do X-Def, cosmics, specific red or green terminals for artifact drops, whatever and the heroes are usually just fun to play. There is also progress being made regardless because Eternity Splinters are guaranteed drops after specific intervals of time so I never feel like I'm being stonewalled. And even running at 0% SIF and RIF I still see plenty of drops. Uniques tend to be powerful, sought after items but you can get some insanely rolled cosmics that would trump them as well (grant skills at +23, grant +8 to current ranks of certain skills, double crit, brut or damage rolls and all of them have +1 stats and can give some really great buffs).

You don't really need RIF or SIF to gear up at a decent rate in this game so it's really just an observation rather than a woeful complaint with the game. A bigger issue I see is that certain skills seem buggy, movement skills in particular. On Ms Marvel there are a lot of times where my build's big damage skill (crashdown strike) seems to not do any damage at all even if I land right on top of stuff with it.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I think the game is a lot of fun, hence the burnout. And splinters are awesome, I got all but 3 of my heroes using them (no random boxes). Don't remember how many I have, 12 or so? But you have to keep in mind, when I was playing was when they were just starting to tweak droprates upward. Back then, there were many people who played hundreds of hours without seeing a single unique drop, and cosmic drops were pretty fucking rare too. Since then they've increased drop rates like 1000% or something over the course of numerous patches.

Couple of questions:

Should a goal be to level up the crafter? Most of the stuff I get I donate as I haven't really needed to use a ton of credits yet and I've been donating to the crafter. Are there specific vendors that should be leveled first?

Should RIF boosts always be stacked if you have different ones, especially at low levels (1-20)?

Lost Virtue_sl said:

Gambit review on TC is great and may become my new main! He will definitely be an incredible hero once this review goes live (if they don't make a lot of changes from what's on TC today). I however am sad they are pushing back the Black Widow review, was looking forward to the type of play-style Black Widow would encompass.

Encourage everyone to download the TC and check him out.

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I'll definitely end up playing him since he was a favorite of mine back in the day, and just to have his synergy.

Vandyn_sl said:

Couple of questions:

Should a goal be to level up the crafter? Most of the stuff I get I donate as I haven't really needed to use a ton of credits yet and I've been donating to the crafter. Are there specific vendors that should be leveled first?

Should RIF boosts always be stacked if you have different ones, especially at low levels (1-20)?

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The vendor lvling order is typically: Crafter, Enchanter, Weapon, and then Armorer. You'll use the crafter more than any of them. I used it a bunch to upgrade my uniques as I leveled, especially if I got a duplicate unique with weaker stat rolls.

I wouldn't worry about using boosts pre level 20 (not even xp really). When I start a new toon I do the prologue/raft quests..then either do MM/Xdef. Before you know it you're 20 and you're in LQ land till 60. You'll get so much gear out of xdef that you'll be constantly upgrading gear, especially if you have RIF boots to get more purples to drop. You'll probably want to stick to MM for the first 5 levels of your level band...I.E. 10-15, 20-25, etc..this way you'll get drops that you can wear right away. I was leveling Cable last night and at lvl 30 I hopped in a Xdef and got lvl 35/37 gear I couldn't use. So hitting XDef at mid level bands seems to make the most sense.

Raes_sl said:

Burned myself out on this game just before Ghostrider patch, but I played a shit-ton before that, and I noticed the same weird shit with RIF and uniques. Math nerds will tell you you're crazy, confirmation bias, small sample size, etc. It's bullshit. When you've played rpgs for as long as we have, you get a feel for loot drop percentages (anything rng based, really), and you can usually tell when something is out of whack. And in MH, it's a little more obvious than most.

I'll just say that I've always believed that this game would be a lot better if RIF boosts weren't a cash shop item.

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As long as you do terminals to get the two fortune cards daily you'll be swimming in boost bars. I have I think 20+ RIF 100% bars, ~15'ish 50% RIF potions, 10+ 100% XP bars, 20+ 50% XP potions and a handful of SIF bars. I haven't bought any of them.

This is something I just started doing when I log in everyday, on a geared storm it takes about 30min to rip through both Green and Red Terminals if that...good point Tenks