Warmuth
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MMA Thread
- Thread starter Wintermute
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Muurloen
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
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calhoonjugganaut
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I've watched it twice now. Reyes put together some good combinations that were spaced pretty far apart outside of the 1st round. Jones' defense stifled any kind of consistency that would allow Reyes to dominate any round outside of the 1st. I'm torn on rounds 2 and 3. Round 2 didn't look as definitive for Reyes after the second time watching it.
Ultimately Jones' confidence in his stamina and abilities in the championship rounds allows him to defend more-so in the first two or three rounds. The subtlety in which he deals damage throughout those first three rounds always tends to flare up a reaction from those of us watching. It was certainly a close fight but if you want to dethrone the GOAT you have to be more consistent. I thought Reyes had him in trouble after the first round but Jones' defense stifled all but a couple of combinations/strikes after the first round.
Ultimately Jones' confidence in his stamina and abilities in the championship rounds allows him to defend more-so in the first two or three rounds. The subtlety in which he deals damage throughout those first three rounds always tends to flare up a reaction from those of us watching. It was certainly a close fight but if you want to dethrone the GOAT you have to be more consistent. I thought Reyes had him in trouble after the first round but Jones' defense stifled all but a couple of combinations/strikes after the first round.
H.A. Monkey
Golden Knight of the Realm
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To be the champ, you have to beat the champ. Not just barely win. You cannot have the champ have a near 60% advancing pace and expect to win. 60% for Jones, and fucking 3% for Reyes. Sure Reyes out landed Jones to start, but if you can’t keep a pace, you’re done. I thought Jones for sure won 3,4,5, with the possibility of him even getting the second. Which isn’t that crazy seeing as how one gave Jones the 2 but not the 3, and the other giving Jones the 3, but not the 2.
Don’t be giving the judges grief, the two who scored it 48-47 couldn’t even agree on the second or third rounds. That leaves open a possible 49-46. Which I told my friends watching, I wouldn’t be shocked if that happened. And then it did. Seeing the cards now gives more reason to believe that Reyes did way to much walking backwards and that’s what caused him to lose the fight.
Don’t be giving the judges grief, the two who scored it 48-47 couldn’t even agree on the second or third rounds. That leaves open a possible 49-46. Which I told my friends watching, I wouldn’t be shocked if that happened. And then it did. Seeing the cards now gives more reason to believe that Reyes did way to much walking backwards and that’s what caused him to lose the fight.
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H.A. Monkey
Golden Knight of the Realm
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Let’s look at the stats in full.
Significant strikes: Reyes
Knockdown: Reyes( if you can count a body shot on a kicking Jones a knockdown)
Takedowns: Jones
Octagon control: Jones
Advancing: Jones
Accuracy: Jones
First to draw blood: Jones( this is most important)
Submission attempts: Jones
Where is my bias really at? You can’t throw 90 more punches, and only land 12 more. You can’t be second to draw blood if you think you’re going to win.
yamikazo
Trakanon Raider
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You're a genius. Can you show me where in the rules it states that fighters are to be scored on first to draw blood?
Your "stats" are fanfiction.
Oblio
Utah
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Yep, if you noticed I gave you a solidarity on your previous post. So I agree with you, but not sure about the first to draw blood though. Unless you mean it would influence the judges even though it shouldn't.
calhoonjugganaut
Trakanon Raider
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I posted the same thing above on my social media and my friends that are usually hounding me about a close Jon Jones fight have had nothing to say.
I never really look at who looks worse after a fight or anything like that. You got guys that open up after being knicked and they are winning the fight. Jones consistently defended well. Can't remember if it was the first or second round where he kind of ran away to create space but that didn't happen again in the fight. He walked Reyes down after that. Of course you are going to get hit more moving forward like that.
One thing is for certain and that is Jon won the championship rounds. I'd say rounds 2 and 3 were a toss up. You gotta stop the GOAT or keep that same energy for the rest of the fight in order to dethrone him in my opinion.
If they rematch, Jones will have him figured out and it won't go 5 rounds.
I never really look at who looks worse after a fight or anything like that. You got guys that open up after being knicked and they are winning the fight. Jones consistently defended well. Can't remember if it was the first or second round where he kind of ran away to create space but that didn't happen again in the fight. He walked Reyes down after that. Of course you are going to get hit more moving forward like that.
One thing is for certain and that is Jon won the championship rounds. I'd say rounds 2 and 3 were a toss up. You gotta stop the GOAT or keep that same energy for the rest of the fight in order to dethrone him in my opinion.
If they rematch, Jones will have him figured out and it won't go 5 rounds.
H.A. Monkey
Golden Knight of the Realm
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The score card has 2 judges giving Jones round 2, and 2 judges giving him round 3. I don’t think there’s much tossup for who won those rounds.
Blood has and always will influence judges. It’s how they know how clean or hard a hit was. Jones was hit with some big shots and didn’t bleed until the 4th. Reyes was bleeding by the 2nd. Jones was simply landing cleaner, fuller shots. Although not at many as Reyes, Jones’ fight iq is insane to be able to do that. If there would have been a 6th round, Reyes was either going to get submitted or knocked out.
Next time we see Reyes fight, I bet he’ll look a little bit leaner and have way better cardio. He won’t get a knockout, but we’ll prolly see a sub. Reyes vs Santos sounds like a good fight to make next.
Any info on medical suspensions yet?
Blood has and always will influence judges. It’s how they know how clean or hard a hit was. Jones was hit with some big shots and didn’t bleed until the 4th. Reyes was bleeding by the 2nd. Jones was simply landing cleaner, fuller shots. Although not at many as Reyes, Jones’ fight iq is insane to be able to do that. If there would have been a 6th round, Reyes was either going to get submitted or knocked out.
Next time we see Reyes fight, I bet he’ll look a little bit leaner and have way better cardio. He won’t get a knockout, but we’ll prolly see a sub. Reyes vs Santos sounds like a good fight to make next.
Any info on medical suspensions yet?
Lanx
<Prior Amod>
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he thinks, his cardio is already amazing, no one else in the world would go on a stationary bike for 45 fucking minutes!!!
Gavinmad
Mr. Poopybutthole
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I mean he clearly wasn't completely gassed, he still was able to sprawl and scramble when Jon went for take-downs, but he definitely wasn't as fast or aggressive. I'd be surprised if there isn't an immediate rematch.
Also I think people are way overreacting to that one retarded judge who scored it 49-46.
Also I think people are way overreacting to that one retarded judge who scored it 49-46.
Oblio
Utah
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Blood in and of itself problematic due to head butts. I have never seen any scoring rules/guidelines stating points should be awarded for drawing blood. Most judges are not educated enough to understand how the cut was caused. While I agree that it does influence my point is it shouldn't.
The Dauntless One
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Shit man this list is fucking stupid
1) Takedowns - Jones went for 4 take downs. First and third were defended. Second and fourth got Reyes to the ground, but Reyes just stood up immediately. There was no submission attempt nor was Reyes in danger from the take down attmepts. I thought we're past the lay and pray era of UFC/MMA.
2) Octagon control/advancing - For the first two rounds, Reyes was far and away the more aggressive one. Jones advanced more in the later rounds but was not being aggressive. This ties in with accuracy. Jones was picking his shots (trying to counter or catch Reyes off guard), but Reyes was swinging more. Volume is a metric even if the fighter misses. Swinging more shows aggressiveness, willingness to engage, and creating opportunities. In round 5, Jones was clearly frustrated because Reyes wasn't engaging as much. On the flip side Jones never went in either. He had zero urgency even when his corner told him to go for a knockout in the 5th round.
3) First to draw blood - "You can't be second to score if you think you're going to win." Stop it with the bullshit. With that line of thinking, the Diaz brothers would have never won any decisions.
Captain Suave
Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.
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If I were scoring the fight under the current criteria I would have given Reyes rounds 1-3, with 3 being very close.
That said, I don't think the current scoring criteria is very good. I'd prefer some combination of public scoring of rounds to remove some of the guessing game and giving more incentives to force the action, judging the fight as a whole instead of round-by-round (Jones wins this way), removing "saved by the bell" resets and maintaining position between rounds (not relevant here, but it devalues grappling), or just doing away with rounds entirely and fight for 15-20 min straight.
That said, I don't think the current scoring criteria is very good. I'd prefer some combination of public scoring of rounds to remove some of the guessing game and giving more incentives to force the action, judging the fight as a whole instead of round-by-round (Jones wins this way), removing "saved by the bell" resets and maintaining position between rounds (not relevant here, but it devalues grappling), or just doing away with rounds entirely and fight for 15-20 min straight.