Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO
- Thread starter Flobee
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Guest, did you like the last podcast notification?? Well here's the second one, and for the third podcast! Yep. This Thursday 8-8-24 at 7pm Central
Go here to check out his podcast thread for info on topics and links!Go into the FoH discord and find the Happy Time Fun Hour channel and give it a listen!
Siliconemelons
Avatar of War Slayer
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Kriptini
Vyemm Raider
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I'm not opposed to this feature if additional spellbooks can be crafted and stored in your bank. You could also do something cool like have different types of spellbooks give different stats. For example, you could have a typical leather spellbook that has no bonuses, but maybe you can loot a legendary dragonhide spellbook that gives a bonus to fire spells if you've memorized from that spellbook.
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Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Ya that sounds like a lot of fun. Hopefully they do something like that rather than just forcing you to run to the bank just so you can sow/invis yourself for a corpse run.
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Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Yah they should make exactly the game they wanna make without compromise. That’s just so very romantic.
Why even have every vendor in every town? Maybe one race specializes in armor craft so they’re the only ones that accept materials that are involved! What’s a couple hours travel time? It’s the experience that counts!
And honestly who cares if you only yield 400 monthly subs if you followed your heart and the power of friendship right? At least after 5 years of development work you have all the memories you made along the way.
Financial success is over rated. What really matters is sticking to old school MMORPG values, and pushing them to the absolute limit.
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Honestly, why not just take all the worst aspects of EQ's tedium and ramp them up to 11? Imagine the dozens of players who'd be frothing at the mouth to play that kind of intriguing gameplay!
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Kithani
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Did you really just claim that the “MMO addicts” are actually a separate group from the people who no-life MMOs and are somehow ruining the genre for the “no-lifers?”
Do you really think ANYONE in this thread came to the MMO genre from WoW?
Bro, if you feel like a game genre should require you to no-life it around to 5 different vendors every trip to town so you can feel like you’ve somehow gained an edge and accomplished something by spending all evening tediously performing menial tasks YOU ARE THE ADDICT.
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Ya i found that take a bit odd to say the least.
Like I’ve only ever played a few MMOs in earnest (EQ, EQOA, EQ2, pre-TBC WoW, Vanguard, and GW2) and havent even really touched one other than p99 in the last 11 years or so.
I think there’s a lot of space to occupy on the spectrum between Dungeon-Finder Lobby games and having to retrieve your backup spell book from a bank before a corpse run.
Control
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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I think a lot of what's getting brought up might sound bad, but it's really all about the tuning and implementation. I haven't tried it so I how no opinion on what's actually been done, but I can imagine reasonable reasons/justification for everything I've seen mentioned.
Also, it was always bullshit that melee were useless on a corpse run but monks/casters were still gtg.
Dropping your spellbook sounds unpleasant but fair, so long as spells and gear are similarly replaceable/substitutable.- 2
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Yeah so pretty much the same thing we’ve all read since they added The Nexus in Luclin? I’d like to think discourse here on that particular topic has gotten a bit more advanced than that over the last two decades.
There have been QOL systems introduced over the years that have reduced player sense of accomplishment, and reduced interdependence and communication, hampering relationship building. Absolutely. Nobody is asking for a mini-map or a LFG tool in Monsters and Memories. What does having to make a bank run before a corpse run do to make the game feel more challenging? What does item specific vendors do to increase player connectivity?
I believe if there are tedious systems in place that neither increase sense of accomplishment, or increase interdependence, then the only thing they’ll achieve is downward pressure on player retention. That should be opposite of the team’s goal here.
It was referred to as EverCrack for a reason.
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Kithani
Blackwing Lair Raider
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“It was always bullshit melee were useless on a corpse run” and you people seriously think the solution is “let’s just make every class useless on a corpse run!”I think a lot of what's getting brought up might sound bad, but it's really all about the tuning and implementation. I haven't tried it so I how no opinion on what's actually been done, but I can imagine reasonable reasons/justification for everything I've seen mentioned.
Also, it was always bullshit that melee were useless on a corpse run but monks/casters were still gtg.
Oh wait I thought you nerds didn’t like class homogenization what are you a bunch of carebears from WOW?!
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TJT
Mr. Poopybutthole
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Only casters being able to bind outside of cities without a nearly one of a kind rare item from a super inaccessible zone is not something that needs to be repeated.
Let casters be able to bind themselves but let them bind anyone wherever they want.
Punching the other 50% of classes in the dick just because they had the audacity to have spells and didn't strictly need gear to do the bare minimum seems a bit much.
Let casters be able to bind themselves but let them bind anyone wherever they want.
Punching the other 50% of classes in the dick just because they had the audacity to have spells and didn't strictly need gear to do the bare minimum seems a bit much.
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Palum
what Suineg set it to
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Corpse runs with full loot drops are dumb anyway. Either it's "realistic" and you have permadeath or it's just a game and why do you need stupid concepts that just waste time. AC did it much better with death items, quest items being bound mattering, and stuff like that.
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Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Control
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Whether or not you should have corpse runs at all is one question. Whether you should treat your classes similarly during one is another.
Just think of it as a game with loot-permadeath, but when you die, you get a dynamic quest with the potential for amazing loot!
(It is actually dynamic content though. You force your players into a potentially time consuming and highly difficult task they don't want, but that can serve as bonding/cooperation for the group and adds actual bite to the risk/reward thing. It's self-induced hazing, but it can serve a purpose. When was the last time you played a game where you were literally afraid to go somewhere? Do I want to play a game like that now? Probably not... but I understand.)
Palum
what Suineg set it to
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TBH, disagree. It's not 1999 anymore. I think it's fine to make death that impactful only when the game isn't super rng and structured properly. If you're going to have the sort of old school hijinks like chaotic pulling mechanics, trains, wacky threat tables, etc. then that just doesn't make sense to me. I think there's a better balance if dying sets you back in the content not potentially ruins your night/week/forever on a character because of a lag spike.
It's the same with having no vendors or painfully small bag space but everything stops piles of trash items.
Fogel
Mr. Poopybutthole
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Corpse runs sucked, but they did two things that separated WoW from EQ for me.
1. They added that layer of danger/suspense that you always had to be on guard or your dungeon run would hit a major speed bump
2. They helped foster a community as people had to develop friends/relationships. Where as WoW's instancing and Ghost mechanic removed all that. You only ever needed your guild for raids
I was a paladin in EQ and loved knowing that I just saved someones day because I was running through Lguk to solo some stuff and found a dead person/camp and rez'd them all so they didn't have to run/rebreak. Those are the kinds of interactions that build friends/community that WoW removed. Now corpse runs don't need to be full EQ dick punch, but WoW went too far in the other direction
1. They added that layer of danger/suspense that you always had to be on guard or your dungeon run would hit a major speed bump
2. They helped foster a community as people had to develop friends/relationships. Where as WoW's instancing and Ghost mechanic removed all that. You only ever needed your guild for raids
I was a paladin in EQ and loved knowing that I just saved someones day because I was running through Lguk to solo some stuff and found a dead person/camp and rez'd them all so they didn't have to run/rebreak. Those are the kinds of interactions that build friends/community that WoW removed. Now corpse runs don't need to be full EQ dick punch, but WoW went too far in the other direction
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