GuardianX
Perpetually Pessimistic
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I guess? I mean you are on their discord, I'm guessing more than I am, ask them yourself ROFL...
Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO
- Thread starter Flobee
- Start date
I guess? I mean you are on their discord, I'm guessing more than I am, ask them yourself ROFL...
Siliconemelons
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
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MMO-RP-G?
I am not saying I like the mechanic, just offering perspective.. we are talking about /magic spells/ here...and the quandary of what to do after you DIE AND COME BACK to life in some far off place not next to your corpse with another body.
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Kirun
Buzzfeed Editor
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The question you have to ask as a dev/designer is why are players doing X thing and what purpose does it serve? Is it overcoming a challenge or is it circumventing a mechanic?
In the case of extra books/gear in the bank, if that then makes corpse runs fairly trivial, you're simply forcing the playing to use their knowledge/power to circumvent the mechanic of "corpse runs" and now ignore the "overcoming a challenge" portion entirely. And if that's the case, it certainly begs the question...what's the fucking point of the corpse run then?
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Quaid
Trump's Staff
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And that’s exactly it. A mandatory bank run means you trivialize corpse runs.
In EQ people wanted back to the grind ASAP, so they struggled through it without re-gearing at the bank. With this system corpse runs are just gonna be an exercise in tedium, rather than the most exciting part of the game. Instead of a 50%+ reduction in power it’s like a 15% reduction in power (if that).
Man if i were group leader I’d start checking and actively demanding potential group mates bind at the nearest city with a bank to wherever we were grinding. I’d be asking if they had a CR gear set/book.
It’d be a real shame if this made it through.
Control
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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So you're ok with corpse runs and with naked melee classes being nearly worthless? But naked casters being worthless too? "WHOA THERE, LETS NOT GET CRAZY!"
(I've always thought you should solve that problem by powering up spells via gear/stats similar to melee, but shrug.)
overall i like the spellbook dropping on corpse - prevents alot of abuse that only casters have access to.
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GuardianX
Perpetually Pessimistic
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Like what?
All I'm going to do as a caster is store some side spells in a place of ease, be it bank, storage or pack mount..
Once I have that, I'm back to being roughly my full caster self. I'm 99% better than a melee going into the same situation.
In the case of a CC or pet class I'm back to roughly 90% of my personal power through adding mez / charm or a pet to my kit.
EDIT:
I Will say, if they want to make it more equitable, make it so that spells on your abilities bar can ONLY be there if you have a corresponding spellbook ON YOUR PERSON.
Make it so I can't bank and un-bank then RE-bank a spellbook for the purposes of CRing BEFORE leaving the city, make me take that CR spellbook with me as I go as a "backup set" of sorts.
Kirun
Buzzfeed Editor
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OR, be a smart designer and implement better ways to punish death without using this fucking 25 year old, archaic bullshit method.
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Nirgon
Log Wizard
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They separated those things into skills and spells and work differently I think. Maybe that hasn't been fleshed out all the way but some scrolls go into different ability sections by design, maybe they keep the CR type tools in the "stays with you" section.
Whatever they have gives me the good old feels man. Encouraging cooperation between players, returning favors and all that is a hidden gem in the "omg greef game".
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Quaid
Trump's Staff
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I don’t really give a shit about how difficult different classes find CRs. I give a shit about having mandatory bank run time sinks before CRs that make me have less fun in my leisure time. Especially for arbitrary ideas about ‘equity’ that aren’t equitable at all.
Araxen
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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If you don't like the CR's in this game go play Pantheon. Shawn has been very vocal about the audience they are going for from the beginning. It shouldn't be a shock to anyone. They aren't expecting a massive amount of subs. It his and his team's passion project.
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Corpse runs should not be in games circa 2025. Thats just dumb lazy revisionist design decision based on some dead 1999 game that does not even have corpse runs themselves anymore. What do corpse runs really do to a game? They stifle exploration of any kind for the majority of players. Because people say "Fuck that shit, Im not going there" instead of "Hey whats there, around that corner? Lets go check it out"
There is far more better ways to punish death rather than a 1-2 hr time sink getting your corpse out of some dungeon deep down. Or having to rely on other players to summon your corpse for some amount of in game cash. Which then, why not just punish the player with a cash sink instead of wasting his time in a round about way?
There is far more better ways to punish death rather than a 1-2 hr time sink getting your corpse out of some dungeon deep down. Or having to rely on other players to summon your corpse for some amount of in game cash. Which then, why not just punish the player with a cash sink instead of wasting his time in a round about way?
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Control
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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So worthless melee don't need bank runs, but worthless casters do? That doesn't make any sense. You should just argue that respawning naked is dumb.
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Woefully Inept
Bronze Baron of the Realm
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After playing melee exclusively back during the heyday of EQ this is all I've got to say about the corpse run matter. No sympathy!
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Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Melee are not worthless naked. Some of the most class defining abilities are retained on death (taunt, stealth, fd, etc) as has been discussed numerous times. Further, trash mobs drop basic weaponry allowing for limited re-gearing to a decent percentage of a player’s potential output during the CR. They do not drop spells though.
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Flobee
Vyemm Raider
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A lot of the logic being thrown around here is exactly how you get to a state of everything being balanced and streamlined, all classes same dps, no punishments for anything, instant gratification. I understand thats not what anyone is asking for, but its the same path of logic and leads to that conclusion. Being inconvenienced is annoying, frustrating, and often not fun. That feeling though is what creates tension and a sense of danger which IS fun.
Maybe their death mechanics aren't ideal, I don't have a strong opinion, we'll see. Some of these arguments being made are pretty silly though... this game WANTS to be similar to the original version of "some dead 1999 game that does not even have corpse runs themselves" and personally I hope they stick with it. If not this iteration, then something else that better creates those annoying and frustrating moments that are required for the kind of experience many of us remember having.
We're all the same MMO boomers that whined the genre into the flavorless paste that it current is.
Maybe their death mechanics aren't ideal, I don't have a strong opinion, we'll see. Some of these arguments being made are pretty silly though... this game WANTS to be similar to the original version of "some dead 1999 game that does not even have corpse runs themselves" and personally I hope they stick with it. If not this iteration, then something else that better creates those annoying and frustrating moments that are required for the kind of experience many of us remember having.
We're all the same MMO boomers that whined the genre into the flavorless paste that it current is.
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Quaid
Trump's Staff
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I was mildly annoyed with the lack of bag space, and then I found the bag vendor and realized buying more bags was easy.
I was mildy annoyed with the lack of map, but then I learned my way around and found it easy to follow landmarks.
I was mildly annoyed with how dark it was at night, but then I found areas that weren't so dark and learned to use light sources.
I was mildly annoyed with vendoring junk, but then I learned who would buy what and what wasn't worth looting.
I was mildy annoyed with the lack of map, but then I learned my way around and found it easy to follow landmarks.
I was mildly annoyed with how dark it was at night, but then I found areas that weren't so dark and learned to use light sources.
I was mildly annoyed with vendoring junk, but then I learned who would buy what and what wasn't worth looting.
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Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Flobee
Vyemm Raider
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