MTG thread

Vilgan_sl · Jun 15, 2013

We had our private draft tonight. I finally got to draft the 5 color artifacts deck i've been wanting to try for ages. Very fun, with all sorts of recurrence and nothing ever stays in the GY. That said, flickerwisp was a beating against the 0/0 artifacts that get counters when you cast them based on colors. 2x flickwisp and then 1x of the exile then come back with a +1 +1 (on flickerwisp) was hard to push through. I won the other 2 matches tho, which won me my entry back (1 pack of MM).

The guy who supplied the box ended up with a goyf, 2 dragons, foil ravager, doubling seasons, bunch of other 10$ rares so he was reasonably happy especially since he cracked a confidant in 1 of his 2 prize packs. Overall was a great experience that i'd do more often at MSRP but not at 250 per box or whatever they are going for now.

Punko · Jun 15, 2013

Chris_sl said:
Yay 2-1-1 at FNM, about 8th out of 32. I'm getting better!

Are the rules different on MTG Online? The guy I drew to kept casting instants during all parts of combat. I assign blockers, he casts Advent of the Wurm or that angel with Flash and blocks. I assign combat damage and he flashes the angle in which flickers a creature to save the one I put the damage onto. I knew he was doing this and specifically checked he was done during each phase so it's not like he was saying "before you assign attackers I'll...". I'm sure this was not possible on MTG Online, you could only block with things on the board before attackers were declared, you could only cast instants to save or kill creatures before combat damage was assigned. The local judge apparently said it was fine.

There are minor differences in MTGO vs real magic, such as MTGO working with a timer for each player seperately, while irl you have to share your time. Obviously this makes MTGO suck for decks such as legacy miracle control.

The things you are describing are all possible in real magic though.

Try turning every single stop on, it will let you see when you can cast instants. You can F6 to skip the rest of your turn when you are done to speed it up.

Don't F6 if you have stuff you still want to play as you won't get the chance.

And doubling season is a worthless piece of shit, not even good enough as a coaster. Fuck casuals.

Gilgamel · Jun 15, 2013

I haven't played in like a decade. How much has changed? Will any of my older cards(I sold all my dual lands and P9 stuff when I quit) be worth anything?

Eonan · Jun 15, 2013

I actually just pulled my cards out last week, took some of my nicer rares (6-8 years old) into the store and got offered shit for them.

Kuro · Jun 15, 2013

Physical stores will offer you *maybe* 50% of the card's value in Store Credit, or 20-30% in actual cash.

Sterling · Jun 15, 2013

Depends on the cards. Our LGS gives 80 percent for singles credit or 50 percent other credit for standard cards, 70/40 for old stuff with some exceptions. Most old cards are pretty bad since they don't see any play in any formats really. If you do have some of the gems though they're worth a lot. Lion's Eye Diamond out of Mirage or Wastelands out of Tempest etc.

Mist · Jun 16, 2013

Punko_sl said:
There are minor differences in MTGO vs real magic, such as MTGO working with a timer for each player seperately, while irl you have to share your time. Obviously this makes MTGO suck for decks such as legacy miracle control.

The things you are describing are all possible in real magic though.

Try turning every single stop on, it will let you see when you can cast instants. You can F6 to skip the rest of your turn when you are done to speed it up.

Don't F6 if you have stuff you still want to play as you won't get the chance.

And doubling season is a worthless piece of shit, not even good enough as a coaster. Fuck casuals.

They're not all possible. You cannot respond to damage after it's been assigned, and you haven't been able to for the past 4 years.

Mist · Jun 16, 2013

Punko_sl said:
There are minor differences in MTGO vs real magic, such as MTGO working with a timer for each player seperately, while irl you have to share your time. Obviously this makes MTGO suck for decks such as legacy miracle control.

The things you are describing are all possible in real magic though.

Try turning every single stop on, it will let you see when you can cast instants. You can F6 to skip the rest of your turn when you are done to speed it up.

Don't F6 if you have stuff you still want to play as you won't get the chance.

And doubling season is a worthless piece of shit, not even good enough as a coaster. Fuck casuals.

They're not all possible. You cannot respond to damage after it's been assigned, and you haven't been able to for the past 4 years.

Heylel · Jun 16, 2013

Mist_sl said:
They're not all possible. You cannot respond to damage after it's been assigned, and you haven't been able to for the past 4 years.

This. Chances are what he's describing is a declared block, and then flashing the blocker out before damage is assigned. That's a perfectly legal use of a Resto Angel that fits the description he posted.

Chris, if you want to learn a little more about those kinds of tricks, read about the stack and priority in the full tournament rules (which are somewhere around 200 pages long). The rule of thumb is that for anything that goes on the stack (basically everything but paying costs and mana abilities) you MUST be given a chance to respond. It's called passing priority. Once you pass priority and both players have had a chance to respond to an event, that event will resolve without further interference. I'm not a judge and won't pretend to understand every tiny interaction, and goddamn does it get complex sometimes, but there are certain decks that you just can't play effectively if you don't have a good grasp on the stack. Any kind of control is basically impossible to play at its best. Junk Aristocrats is another prime example of stack shenanigans.

A very good habit to get into is to declare your combat step overtly. Don't just say "attack with X", first tell your opponent that combat is beginning. This is his opportunity to respond with effects that have to be used before combat or they're ineffective, such as Feeling of Dread. It won't stop him flashing in wurms and angels as new blockers, but it's an excellent habit to form. Same with upkeep. Try to declare it whenever you have any effect at all, just to make sure no one misses a trigger.

In other news, going to a Modern tournament for the first time next Saturday. I'm planning to play Melira Pod, which I just sprang for the fetches to build last night. I skipped Misty Rainforests just because they're too goddamn expensive, but I think I can build a reasonable land base anyway with 4 Verdants and 2 Marsh Flats.

Chris · Jun 16, 2013

Thanks for the help guys, I'm gonna grab a rulebook soon but let's see if I have this right then...

The opponent I played the last two weeks plays Naya Midrange. He plays Angels with Flash and Instant Token generators during combat to make surprise blockers, one of the Angles is the one that exiles a creature then brings it back a second later which he uses to save a blocker from death. I play Boros Aggro and either pump or make indestructable my creatures during combat.

Scenario 1) When I say "I am about to declare attacks", he doesn't have to cast instant speed blockers right then, he can wait until I have said what is attacking and then make his blockers now his has extra information about what I am doing.I didn't know this was possible.So I need to keep an eye on his open mana and plan for extra blockers.

Scenario 2) When I say "In the combat damage step", I can cast my pump spells to make things bigger and he can cast removal to save his stuff or kill my stuff and stop the damage.I knew about this bit as I was using it myself.

Scenario 3) When I assign combat damage to creatures, he cannot then cast something at instant speed using that information to save a creature. He has to do it before damage is assigned.Is this right?The paticular situation was I put 8 damage onto a 1/5 Rhox Faithmender to kill it (extra so he couldn't save it via pump) and 0 damage onto a 3/4 Angel - he then cast another Angel to exile and return the Rhox Faithmender - keeping the Rhox and both Angels. Luckily I top decked a Boros Charm the next turn and killed him.

Scenario 4) When Atackers and Blockers have been assigned and my opponent says "are you going to do anything else?", I then assume we are in the combat damage step and cast my pump spell. My oppenent then cannot respond with casting another blocker and blocking another one of my creatures?Is this right?This one I think cost me from going 3-1 since he was going to die and changed his mind putting in an extra blocker in with flash, if it is illegal then I need to specifically name the combat step I am playing in just in case?

Vanderhoof · Jun 16, 2013

When you declare the attack phase, he can respond (this is when you want to use tap effects most if the time). When you declare attackers, he can respond (this is when you flash in the wurm). After blockers are declared, he can respond (this is when you cast resto angel or a pump spell to save an attacker or blocker}. Then damage is assigned (I think can respond at this point). First strike happens, you can then respond and then regular damage resolved. Please correct me if I am wrong, I pretty much strictly play limited online very casually (I still rock my 1997 US Nationals Competitor shirt at the gym, however).

Mist · Jun 16, 2013

Chris_sl said:
Thanks for the help guys, I'm gonna grab a rulebook soon but let's see if I have this right then...

The opponent I played the last two weeks plays Naya Midrange. He plays Angels with Flash and Instant Token generators during combat to make surprise blockers, one of the Angles is the one that exiles a creature then brings it back a second later which he uses to save a blocker from death. I play Boros Aggro and either pump or make indestructable my creatures during combat.

Scenario 1) When I say "I am about to declare attacks", he doesn't have to cast instant speed blockers right then, he can wait until I have said what is attacking and then make his blockers now his has extra information about what I am doing.I didn't know this was possible.So I need to keep an eye on his open mana and plan for extra blockers.

Scenario 2) When I say "In the combat damage step", I can cast my pump spells to make things bigger and he can cast removal to save his stuff or kill my stuff and stop the damage.I knew about this bit as I was using it myself.

Scenario 3) When I assign combat damage to creatures, he cannot then cast something at instant speed using that information to save a creature. He has to do it before damage is assigned.Is this right?The paticular situation was I put 8 damage onto a 1/5 Rhox Faithmender to kill it (extra so he couldn't save it via pump) and 0 damage onto a 3/4 Angel - he then cast another Angel to exile and return the Rhox Faithmender - keeping the Rhox and both Angels. Luckily I top decked a Boros Charm the next turn and killed him.

Scenario 4) When Atackers and Blockers have been assigned and my opponent says "are you going to do anything else?", I then assume we are in the combat damage step and cast my pump spell. My oppenent then cannot respond with casting another blocker and blocking another one of my creatures?Is this right?This one I think cost me from going 3-1 since he was going to die and changed his mind putting in an extra blocker in with flash, if it is illegal then I need to specifically name the combat step I am playing in just in case?

Scenario 1 and 2 are kosher.

Scen 3) You don't actually assign damage until it's dealt, and once it's dealt theres no response. What you do before that is assign theorderof the blockers in the case of multiple blockers. You would have assigned the Rhox First and the Angel Second, because you wished to deal lethal damage to the Rhox first. The Rhox was then removed from combat. The Angel is still in combat and receives lethal damage, being the only blocker left that you can assign damage to.

Scen 4) Once blockers have been assigned no new blockers can be assigned. If you hadn't put any responses on the stack, at casual REL he could have probably gone back a step to put in another blocker, but once you've cast something that changes the gamestate there's no way he can make you let him back up so he can cast another blocker.

Tea_sl · Jun 16, 2013

Chris_sl said:
Scenario 2) When I say "In the combat damage step", I can cast my pump spells to make things bigger and he can cast removal to save his stuff or kill my stuff and stop the damage.I knew about this bit as I was using it myself.

Scenario 3) When I assign combat damage to creatures, he cannot then cast something at instant speed using that information to save a creature. He has to do it before damage is assigned.Is this right?The paticular situation was I put 8 damage onto a 1/5 Rhox Faithmender to kill it (extra so he couldn't save it via pump) and 0 damage onto a 3/4 Angel - he then cast another Angel to exile and return the Rhox Faithmender - keeping the Rhox and both Angels. Luckily I top decked a Boros Charm the next turn and killed him.

No. Once you have entered combat damage step then shit is going down and you are late to the party. In the Declare attackers, Declare Blockers, and Combat Damage steps stuff happens before any player gains priority. If no player has priority then no one can do anything. In the case of Combat Damage step damage is assigned, then dealt, then triggered abilities go on the stack, and finally the active players gains priority. It is important to note that as part of damage being dealt creatures that have been assigned lethal damage are placed into the graveyard as a state based action. Your last chance to fuck with combat is after blockers have been assigned and ordered in the declare blockers step.

Chris_sl said:
Scenario 4) When Atackers and Blockers have been assigned and my opponent says "are you going to do anything else?", I then assume we are in the combat damage step and cast my pump spell. My oppenent then cannot respond with casting another blocker and blocking another one of my creatures?Is this right?This one I think cost me from going 3-1 since he was going to die and changed his mind putting in an extra blocker in with flash, if it is illegal then I need to specifically name the combat step I am playing in just in case?

Again in each of the middle 3 combat steps stuff happens then the players get to do stuff. The last chance to add a blocker to the field is after attackers have been assigned in the declare attackers step.

Heylel · Jun 16, 2013

Tea_sl said:
Again in each of the middle 3 combat steps stuff happens then the players get to do stuff. The last chance to add a blocker to the field is after attackers have been assigned in the declare attackers step.

Correct. So if he has a Faithmender and flashes in an Angel, he can either declare the Faithmender a blocker then flash it to avoid the damage step OR flash in the Angel before blockers are declared, and then block with both. He can't have it both ways by blocking with both and then also flashing the Faithmender to avoid having it dealt damage.

Vilgan_sl · Jun 16, 2013

as much as the online client is a total piece of shit, it can really help with understanding what you can and can't respond to and when. Might be worth making an account, using the free cards you get, and playing around a bit.

Heylel · Jun 16, 2013

Fucking fetch lands, man. Getting into Modern is costing me a mint.

Xalara · Jun 16, 2013

Heylel_sl said:
Fucking fetch lands, man. Getting into Modern is costing me a mint.

Heh, yeah. A friend loaned me his modern deck to play with at a PTQ side event this weekend. It was my first experience playing constructed, let alone modern, and was ridiculous amounts of fun. I want to play more so I can actually learn the matchups since most of my losses were due to not realizing how to deal with situation X, Y, or Z. Unfortunately I learned that the deck I played with costs on the order of $1000 which made my eyes pop.

Heylel · Jun 17, 2013

They'll reprint eventually, but it's very unlikely to be soon. I would guess next fall at the earliest when Ravnica rotates. For now, I'm stuck trying to wrangle enough of them to build Melira Pod for Saturday.

I've got a Dark Confidant to unload from MM, but I'd feel bad swapping it for lands that will inevitably see a reprint when Bob never will.

Arbitrary · Jun 17, 2013

Never?

Strossus · Jun 17, 2013

Bob just did, well rather its Skrillex, but w/e in the last week I've managed to pick up 3 bobs, 3 lili's of the viel, 2 Umezawa's Jitte, a wasteland, 4 voice of resurgence, and some other decent things, standard for modern stuff into possibly legacy stuff, I'm Picking up a Candelabra hopefully by the end of the month.
And if you can turn that bob into fetch's with you getting ahead, then why not?

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