MTG thread

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Necrath Evilcraft

Golden Knight of the Realm
576
146
Less ban duals and more print new versions aka the "snow duals" people like to joke about. Also I don't know about fighting lawsuits with the reserved lists. I am unclear on if there are actual legal documents formed as part of the list. Wotc hasn't talked too much about it.

Realistically WoTC should just announce that the RL is being abolished and tell them we won't start reprinting for 3-5 years so collectors can get out before the prices fall. Even with reprints old/original cards retain most of their value.
 

Heylel

Trakanon Raider
3,602
430
Miracles was something like 1 out of 5 decks at the GPs. I'm not saying something certainly will be banned, but I wouldn't drop a couple thousand dollars on the deck right now.
Miracles isn't going to cost anyone anything. There's nothing in it that isn't good elsewhere. All of the value is in Tundras, Forces, etc. The miracles themselves are very inexpensive, so the chances of losing anything if Top got banned (which it won't) is pretty low. It all goes into stoneblade.
 

Remmy

Lord Nagafen Raider
330
433
All confidence will be broken if they reprint reserve list cards. It was a promise, and breaking that promise would cost them exorbitant amounts of money in many many many fronts. There are many instances of free advertising when news articles get released when grandpa joe finds the black lotus in his basement, or when a 20+k collection gets stolen. A good chunk of mtg magic the gathering buzz on youtube is in relation to mtg finance, and high value pack openings.

Personally if they broke that promise it would take the mystique/magic out of mtg for me. I would likely liquidate my entire collection asap, and then only proxy and participate in pre release events with well designed sets and good prize support.
 

Necrath Evilcraft

Golden Knight of the Realm
576
146
Such reverence for the collection aspect of magic seems so misplaced for me, Cards being worth more because they are old AND in demand is great. But because they are old in demand and wont ever be reprinted? Come on that's just foolish. its a game to be played and the reserved list strictly harms the price of cards in certain formats. Its a very grey area on what would happen if it went away but its not like these cards lose all that value and also thats just a fact of life when it comes to collecting things, their prices aren't guaranteed to only rise.
 

Remmy

Lord Nagafen Raider
330
433
Claim it's stupid all you want, but wizards made a promise, and people that accepted that promise purchased those cards under the faith that they would not be reprinted. Due to them never being reprinted buyers can have the confidence that they will likely not lose their investment unless mtg completely tanks. Reprinting and devaluing their investment/purchase would be completely unfair to those that take pride in owning some of the strongest and most valuable cards ever printed in the history of ANY sort of trading card collectible.

If you want some utopia where you get all the cool toys for free, just proxy, or play xmage, or find groups of legacy players that are fine with proxies in their non DCI tournaments.
 

Necrath Evilcraft

Golden Knight of the Realm
576
146
Reprinting cards that are that old and small in print won't devalue them when wotc wouldnt reprint them in a massive quantity and it would in turn theoretically increase their demand. The reprints would be cheaper and slowly raise in price.

I don't want anything for free I want it for reasonable prices. dual lands 3 years ago were reasonable. blue duals now are wholly unreasonable esp when if you are a pro level player competing for a living that legacy is the least played constructed format between the big 3.

In the end it won't change but the RL going away and getting modest reprints at stupid booster prices wouldn't touch the main stays. Wotc has to balance all this shit and they have done a poor job by ignoring reprints/functional reprints of legacy/vintage stuff that has a demand.
 

Heylel

Trakanon Raider
3,602
430
You know what people were saying about dual lands three years ago? That dual lands were too expensive and reasonable three years before that. It's been that way with certain cards since forever.
 

Necrath Evilcraft

Golden Knight of the Realm
576
146
Sure. I just mean for me personally. If i were as interested in playing legacy then as I am now I would have been able to buy some duals and be happy about it but the price spiked and that ship has sailed for me.
 

Zaide

TLP Idealist
3,904
4,751
The reserve list is inevitably going to die at some point. If for no other reason then that the counterfeiters will force WoTC hand.

A lot of items on the reserved list won't even lose value with a reprint. They're collectors items, if they made a 2017 Black Lotus no one would look at it as some amazing valuable piece of mtg history. If anything it would increase the number of players in eternal formats and therefore increase the value of the mythical abu versions.

Just because I can go buy a copy of the Mona Lisa and put it on my wall doesn't make the original lose its value.
 

ronne

Nǐ hǎo, yǒu jīn zi ma?
8,269
7,819
The reserve list is literally 20 years old and the game is so far removed from what it was back that then that it can barely even be compared.

Reprints from it WILL happen, and it won't be much longer, as the potential money to be gained is far too large, the knockoff market is growing too large, and the scarcity of some cards on it are stifling the legacy/vintage scene more and more as time goes on. They have already shown they are willing to do functional reprints and that's likely the way they'll do in the future with bigger name cards just to keep the all the middle aged neckbeards that "invested" in magic from throwing too big of a tantrum.

wru snow-covered taiga, pls exist and make legacy playable again.
 

a_skeleton_03

<Banned>
29,948
29,763
Comic books were doing reprints back when this list was done and it wasn't impacting values of first printings at all.

They thought cards would be different and they are sort of correct. Comics are meant to be read once and then stored if you are a collector or even never read. Cards are a little more consumable. They are designed to be touched and played with regularly. They will get worn out. You also have the RNG of the pack system. Comics you buy exactly what you want. With the cards they printed a certain amount but not all of them have even come out of packs yet.

It was a stupid move when they made it but I don't doubt they hold off on breaking free from that restriction for at least another five years.
 

Heylel

Trakanon Raider
3,602
430
One major thing I think is hamstringing them is the dumb shit idea of making white border cards in reprint sets. Black border dual lands would be *insanely popular* to the point of probably impacting the value of the originals. Power, I think, has enough cache that it wouldn't be impacted quite as badly.

Legends things on the reprint list would fare better, as would Arabian. I'm pretty confident if they reprinted Tabernacle is would have shitty CG art from some guy in Poland who makes LotR fanfic paintings.
 

Kuro

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
8,937
23,491
I don't want black-bordered duals! White border makes fetching so much quicker
biggrin.png
 

Arbitrary

Tranny Chaser
29,014
79,739
I came into the game during 4th Edition/Fallen Empires and missed out on all of the older cards. Standard wasn't a format yet and even parks of The Dark were well above MSRP. When Chronicles came out there was definitely a divide of sorts between younger/newer players and the people who had been playing at the beginning. Having City of Brass, Ernham Djinn, Carrion Ants, the Elder Dragons, Dakkon Blackblade, Sol'kanar the Swamp King, etc. all show up in a massively printed set and with white borders did crush the prices of the original cards. I can understand people being concerned that WotC could just as easily do that with even more expensive cards. The collectible nature of the game is a big part of the attraction for some players. People like trading. There's a secondary market to consider.

But most of the people that were unhappy with Chronicles left the game anyway not long after the introduction of Standard, specifically when 4th Edition, Chronicles, Fallen Empires, Ice Age, and Homelands all rotated out simultaneously and Standard became Mirage, Visions, Weatherlight, Tempest, and a core set. Fifth edition had removed Serra Angel, Sengir Vampire, Shivan Dragon, Swords to Plowshares, and a bunch more ironic cards and replaced them with poop further alienating older players. Standard was what everyone had cards for and what the bulk of the players were playing. The older players weren't too keen on needing to constantly keep up with buying new sets and left the game. The Reserved List was in place but it didn't mean all that much. Standard was the format with all the support and general interest in Vintage was low. The Reserved List also was updated for no real gain at a couple different points. Why are Fallen Empires cards on the Reserved List? If you go through set by set from Fallen Empires to Urza's Destiny it's all just so much crap. It's like they added cards just to add cards.

rrr_img_135904.jpg


Someone made a decision that this card would never be reprinted. Homelands was heavily printed, the card never saw play, never had value, was never collectible, and if you are looking for a white enchantment that buffs your dudes you've got ten better options. Wizards has also demonstrated that the Reserved List can be circumvented. Fork is on the reserved list but they made Reverberate which isalmostthe identical card is functionally identical in almost all cases.

Now the game'shugeand what started out a fairly reasonable policy is now a set of handcuffs. There are more people than ever that are at least somewhat interested in playing the older formats but the limited supply of certain cards makes that prohibitive. I think WotC's plan is to just ride things out a few more years and let Modern slowly push out formats they can't ever print cards for. At some point they can do something like reintroduce Extended and just pretend there's only Modern, Standard, and <Insert New Format Here>. There's also always the outside chance that a brand new Hasbro CEO decides to just jettison entire fucking thing and crank up the printing press. What's going to fuck all that up is counterfeiting. The prices of some cards have grown so high that turning lead into gold looks like amateur hour. Eventually we're going to get fakes that are indistinguishable from the real thing and that is going to force WotC's hand. Hell, they don't even need to be perfect. They just need to be good enough to wreck up the secondary market and erode consumer confidence.

Personally I think that kicking the dual lands off the Reserved List as a one time only thing makes the most sense for the game. If optimal mana bases in Legacy were not prohibitively expensive (and effectively capped as there's just flat out only so many copies of Tundra or Volcanic Island in existence) I think that format could really be fucking massive with a great deal of depth. Never printing Moxes again is fine. The ones on MTGO look like shit proxies anyway. It's really only the duals that have a stifling effect on the game. The rest of it is pretty much whatever.
 

Chris

Potato del Grande
19,436
-10,732
Dual Lands are boring cards. They reprint them and deck building becomes easier for no actual game play benefit.

Moxes and Lotuses are just broken and make it a different game.
 

Arbitrary

Tranny Chaser
29,014
79,739
The real no effort move is to just ban duals from Legacy but I think that would piss people off more than printing new ones would.
 

Zaide

TLP Idealist
3,904
4,751
I'd never want to see duals and most big reserved list staples reprinted for use in standard. If they do reprint them (I hope they do) then they should do it as a supplementary product. I also agree that they could probably just reprint duals and be done with it.

I don't care if they reprint them with poop colored borders that say "poorfag" I'd just like to see more people able to play the older formats.
 

Heylel

Trakanon Raider
3,602
430
I like all of The Thing inspirations they're taking, but it's pretty obvious this is just BFZ set 3 repurposed for Innistrad to fit the 2 set structure.