NBA 2023-24 Season Thread - The Lakers Lose, America Wins

Quaid said:

The Edwards dick riding is revving uppppp

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He is just morphing into the second coming of Jordan and the best player in the league. No big deal, barely even noteworthy.

People need to chill on the Jordan comparisons. It's absurd.

You can argue he might already be better than Booker which would make him the best 2 guard in the league. But he's not Jordan or the best player in the league. That's just stupid.

Sterling said:

You can argue he might already be better than Booker which would make him the best 2 guard in the league. But he's not Jordan or the best player in the league. That's just stupid.

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He's absolutely in the conversation of best player. (I say Luka) Has been for a few months now. He's not Jordan.

Long way to go but if he wins a title this year going through KD, Booker, Jokic, Luka/OKC, and likely Tatum and Brown at age 22, him being considered the best player in the league is perfectly reasonable.

He's great. I just think there's a real gap between Joker and Luka and the rest of the league.

Sterling said:

He's great. I just think there's a real gap between Joker and Luka and the rest of the league.

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agreed

Sterling said:

He's great. I just think there's a real gap between Joker and Luka and the rest of the league.

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No. You have Giannis, Tatum, heck even Shai. Now AE. They are all damn near equal. What's your position and what's around you is what separates them.

I wouldn't put Tatum near Luka or Jokic.

Alex said:

I wouldn't put Tatum near Luka or Jokic.

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Dude. Tatum was leading the MVP race up until a couple months ago. That was when the Celtics went up like 7 or 8 games on the second seed, and Giannis pulls his hammy.

I don't think Tatum was ever winning the MVP race - he was more in the conversation a few months back but I wouldn't say he was ever leading it. And the main reason he was ever in it is because the C's are that much better than the rest of their conference. A few things -

The East is a joke compared to the West right now. The amount of talent in the West is stupid. The Celtics would still be a top 4-5ish team there but wouldn't have dominated the way they did in the East this year.

Without domination of the Leastern conference, Tatum may not have ever even been top 5 in the discussion this year. His numbers just aren't there compared to the other top guys.

And yeah, numbers aren't everything. But they are one of the mains things when trying to quantify how good a player is over 82. And when it comes to the unquantifiable things, hard to say Tatum has more than the other guys.

I also agree Luka and Jokic are top 2 with quite a bit of separation vs. the field. I'd say Jokic is number 1 but one thing puts a little asterisk by that -

1. Jokic's numbers are insane, and its not just the raw stats. His scoring efficiency is elite for a guy with that much usage (MUCH better than Tatum's). Does more to make his teammates better than any center... ever ? Probably not even debatable at this point. Jokic's advanced numbers are ridiculous. He's led the league in win shares, win shares / 48, OBPM, even DBPM somehow, and VORP for the last 4 years. There's only a few players in history who have put up numbers like that in a four year span: Jordan, Lebron, Kareem, maybe Wilt?

2. Luka's raw number almost as crazy as Jokic. Much higher usage, leading to higher raw points. Less efficient than Jokic, but still pretty good efficiency (and better than Tatum). The one thing about Luka that makes me tempted to call him the best player sometimes, is that he seems to be more clutch. He's a bit more of a go to scorer in any situation (ie if you need 3's Jokic less likely to take the big ones himself), and is a killer. Absolute killer. So in a tight playoff series, I'm not sure if I'd rather have Luka or Jokic.

Tatum wilted in the finals two years ago, somehow lost to an 8 seed last year - he has a shot for some redemption in the finals this year, we'll see how it goes. Another thing - his best 3P% season was his rookie year. As his usage has gone up, his efficiency hasn't. He puts up really good numbers, with good efficiency. Top 10-15 player. But not in the conversation even for best player in my opinion.

Brahma said:

No. You have Giannis, Tatum, heck even Shai. Now AE. They are all damn near equal. What's your position and what's around you is what separates them.

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Foggy said:

He is just morphing into the second coming of Jordan and the best player in the league. No big deal, barely even noteworthy.

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Brahma said:

He's absolutely in the conversation of best player. (I say Luka) Has been for a few months now. He's not Jordan.

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Anthony Edwards is barely a top 15 player, this season or any other thus far. This guy has not only not made an All-NBA first team, but hasn’t made an All-NBA team at all. He MIGHT make third team this year, but no guarantees. He’s definitely in the top 20, but let’s see him sustain it for a season or two before we lose our minds. At this point I’m not sure he’s on Kyrie’s level, let alone Brunson or the other second tier guards behind Luka & Shai. Let’s also not forget that Ja exists.

He is currently enjoying a nice little spurt, granted. However, his matchup against the Suns may have been perfect for him. They have exactly zero players with an ability to guard him, and he took advantage. His offensive output that series was very different than his in-season performance, and people who only watch playoff ball are LOSING THEIR SHIT over it. A dominant game 1 performance against the Nuggets on a sloppy night solidified this. It didn’t help that Reggie Miller (certified moron) was spoojing all night over him on the broadcast. You’d think the dude had never seen a crossover before. Wild.

Defensively he has excellent ability due to his athleticism. Better two way player than Shai? Nah. Does his defense make up for the disparity between his and Luka’s offense? Hell no. Let’s not forget the guy is behind a multiple DPOY (Gobert) and arguably the best wing defender tandem in the league (McDaniels/NAW).

Let’s see how the rest of this Nuggets series goes because I ain’t willing to crown this kid just because he’s a charming black American that can dunk.

Woops

Sterling said:

You can argue he might already be better than Booker which would make him the best 2 guard in the league. But he's not Jordan or the best player in the league. That's just stupid.

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Who would argue he’s a better SG than Booker? Nobody that’s paying attention outside the last 3 weeks.

Booker had a better FG%, better 3Pt%, better FT%, more assists and fewer turnovers this season. What the fuck are we talking about here? A 5-10 game sample from Ant and some debatable defensive impact?

The kid is definitely must see TV but everyone needs to chill until we see some consistency.

Is Anthony Edwards the the next Jordan, or the next Harold Minor? Who knows. I just don't like that he looks like a more rapey Mike Tyson.

Quaid said:

Anthony Edwards is barely a top 15 player, this season or any other thus far. This guy has not only not made an All-NBA first team, but hasn’t made an All-NBA team at all. He MIGHT make third team this year, but no guarantees. He’s definitely in the top 20, but let’s see him sustain it for a season or two before we lose our minds. At this point I’m not sure he’s on Kyrie’s level, let alone Brunson or the other second tier guards behind Luka & Shai. Let’s also not forget that Ja exists.

He is currently enjoying a nice little spurt, granted. However, his matchup against the Suns may have been perfect for him. They have exactly zero players with an ability to guard him, and he took advantage. His offensive output that series was very different than his in-season performance, and people who only watch playoff ball are LOSING THEIR SHIT over it. A dominant game 1 performance against the Nuggets on a sloppy night solidified this. It didn’t help that Reggie Miller (certified moron) was spoojing all night over him on the broadcast. You’d think the dude had never seen a crossover before. Wild.

Defensively he has excellent ability due to his athleticism. Better two way player than Shai? Nah. Does his defense make up for the disparity between his and Luka’s offense? Hell no. Let’s not forget the guy is behind a multiple DPOY (Gobert) and arguably the best wing defender tandem in the league (McDaniels/NAW).

Let’s see how the rest of this Nuggets series goes because I ain’t willing to crown this kid just because he’s a charming black American that can dunk.

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THIS season? Dude is waaay more than top 15. I'd take him over Durant, MAYBE Booker, TODAYS Kawaii definitely. Tatum is a no. Lebron, yes. Davis Yes. Embiid yes. Morant Yes. Like I said. When dudes are this close in talent, it's really a popularity contest, but because of age and he's doing work in these playoffs, I'd give him the edge over a lot of the top 15 players.

Now if you're saying he needs to sustain this to be in the conversation for top 5? Ya. No doubt. But he is in the convo now.

NBA stars rarely regress in their primes, or approaching their primes. So I do expect him to sustain/improve personally.

Team makeup. Position. Conference etc. Dude is in the tougher conference where the top three spots were 1 game apart for that top spot? And's he's a game up on the best player against the best team.

Also, you are comparing the dude to the best of the best in every category that really matters. What does that say?

Clearly he's not in Jordan category, (Not sure where that started) but he's in the convo for one of the best players today. I would start a team with him over all players minus like three dudes. Giannis. Joker. Luka.

Pharazon2 said:

I don't think Tatum was ever winning the MVP race - he was more in the conversation a few months back but I wouldn't say he was ever leading it. And the main reason he was ever in it is because the C's are that much better than the rest of their conference. A few things -

The East is a joke compared to the West right now. The amount of talent in the West is stupid. The Celtics would still be a top 4-5ish team there but wouldn't have dominated the way they did in the East this year.

Without domination of the Leastern conference, Tatum may not have ever even been top 5 in the discussion this year. His numbers just aren't there compared to the other top guys.

And yeah, numbers aren't everything. But they are one of the mains things when trying to quantify how good a player is over 82. And when it comes to the unquantifiable things, hard to say Tatum has more than the other guys.

I also agree Luka and Jokic are top 2 with quite a bit of separation vs. the field. I'd say Jokic is number 1 but one thing puts a little asterisk by that -

1. Jokic's numbers are insane, and its not just the raw stats. His scoring efficiency is elite for a guy with that much usage (MUCH better than Tatum's). Does more to make his teammates better than any center... ever ? Probably not even debatable at this point. Jokic's advanced numbers are ridiculous. He's led the league in win shares, win shares / 48, OBPM, even DBPM somehow, and VORP for the last 4 years. There's only a few players in history who have put up numbers like that in a four year span: Jordan, Lebron, Kareem, maybe Wilt?

2. Luka's raw number almost as crazy as Jokic. Much higher usage, leading to higher raw points. Less efficient than Jokic, but still pretty good efficiency (and better than Tatum). The one thing about Luka that makes me tempted to call him the best player sometimes, is that he seems to be more clutch. He's a bit more of a go to scorer in any situation (ie if you need 3's Jokic less likely to take the big ones himself), and is a killer. Absolute killer. So in a tight playoff series, I'm not sure if I'd rather have Luka or Jokic.

Tatum wilted in the finals two years ago, somehow lost to an 8 seed last year - he has a shot for some redemption in the finals this year, we'll see how it goes. Another thing - his best 3P% season was his rookie year. As his usage has gone up, his efficiency hasn't. He puts up really good numbers, with good efficiency. Top 10-15 player. But not in the conversation even for best player in my opinion.

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Just for the record, I am a Boston homer, but not a fan of Tatum's. Until he shows me he can carry you to the promised land, I will always be hesitant. BUT the dude can ball.

Not sure who you want to use as a reference, but Tatum was always in the MVP race. Was he going to win it? I would say no, because the west is stacked and the MVP front runners in the east got hurt. Plus Luka, Giannis and Joker are better on almost as equally good teams.

Brahma said:

THIS season? Dude is waaay more than top 15. I'd take him over Durant, MAYBE Booker, TODAYS Kawaii definitely. Tatum is a no. Lebron, yes. Davis Yes. Embiid yes. Morant Yes. Like I said. When dudes are this close in talent, it's really a popularity contest, but because of age and he's doing work in these playoffs, I'd give him the edge over a lot of the top 15 players.

Now if you're saying he needs to sustain this to be in the conversation for top 5? Ya. No doubt. But he is in the convo now.

NBA stars rarely regress in their primes, or approaching their primes. So I do expect him to sustain/improve personally.

Team makeup. Position. Conference etc. Dude is in the tougher conference where the top three spots were 1 game apart for that top spot? And's he's a game up on the best player against the best team.

Also, you are comparing the dude to the best of the best in every category that really matters. What does that say?

Clearly he's not in Jordan category, (Not sure where that started) but he's in the convo for one of the best players today. I would start a team with him over all players minus like three dudes. Giannis. Joker. Luka.

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Outside of the last 10 games there is near zero statistical argument to put Anthony Edwards in the same tier as Booker, Lebron, Kawhi (healthy), KD, or Anthony fucking Davis. This opinion is so bad I don’t even know where to begin with it.

Claiming a guy who shoots 45% FG and 36% from 3 who doesn’t crack the top 20 in DEF LEBRON is a TOP FIVE player in the NBA makes you sound like an absolute retard. As it stands the guy is a fringe All-NBA player with the likes of Mitchell, Sabonis, and Maxey.

Yeah dude just isn't efficient enough to be in the top tier. Obviously stats aren't everything, but they do matter. Look at VORP. The difference between 1 and 3 (Jokic and Gianis) is the same gap as 3 and 17. That's crazy.