NFL 2014 - 2015 Season Thread

Chanur

Chanur

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Kirun_sl said:
Carroll was the epitome of a mediocre HC during his first stint in the NFL. The 49ers "turnaround" lines up just as well with Baalke's promotion to GM as it does with Harbaugh coming in to coach.

I'm not saying he shouldn't continue being the coach, but after years and years of surrounding a guy with talent, when do you get to say that Super Bowl/NFC Championship appearances without anything to show for it isn't enough? For Andy Reid that was 5 appearances and over a decade. Harbaugh likely won't get that luxury because he's so grating.
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Not sure about Carroll's first go around as coach but they have been to the playoffs 3 of the last 4 years including a superbowl win and likely will make it again this year. If you don't think Carroll had a part in that I don't know what to say to you.
 
Brando

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Look at those Jets and Patriots squads he coached before USC, just getting to a 33-31 mark is pretty damn good when you look at the players he had.
 
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Man0warr

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The only proof you need that coaching matters is Rod Marinelli - Cowboys D is objectively worse talent wise (Let Ware and Hatcher go in FA, Sean Lee out for season) than the 2013 version (which was historically one of the worse defenses of all time). While being on the field much less than 2013 because of the offensive having a ball control scheme this year, it's still apparent that they are more sound tacklers and all the players fly to the ball. 11 average players who work hard and stick to the gameplan is always better than unmotivated blue chippers. The only real blue chip talent they have starting this year is Rolando McClain, and no one saw that coming - anyone who can get that guy to play to his talent has to be good.

Just look at how bad the Chicago defense has gotten since Marinelli left.
 
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Man0warr

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Kirun seems to think that Harbaugh has made no difference. Even though since it's become apparent he is on his way out and he's been mailing it in, his players have all of a sudden forgot how to play football.
 
Araysar

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Man0warr_sl said:
The only proof you need that coaching matters is Rod Marinelli - Cowboys D is objectively worse talent wise (Let Ware and Hatcher go in FA, Sean Lee out for season) than the 2013 version (which was historically one of the worse defenses of all time). While being on the field much less than 2013 because of the offensive having a ball control scheme this year, it's still apparent that they are more sound tacklers and all the players fly to the ball. 11 average players who work hard and stick to the gameplan is always better than unmotivated blue chippers. The only real blue chip talent they have starting this year is Rolando McClain, and no one saw that coming - anyone who can get that guy to play to his talent has to be good.

Just look at how bad the Chicago defense has gotten since Marinelli left.
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Yeah, I hated when he left the Bears. The Bears were a top 5 ranked defense under him and Lovie. And 1 season later they are the worst ranked defense in the NFL.
 
Gravel

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moontayle_sl said:
Anyone seen this? It's about 12 minutes long and talks about how Dallas hired a guy from IBM to build and use a computer for player evaluation purposes long before anyone even considered it.

Decades Before Moneyball, The Dallas Cowboys Used Advanced Stats To Win Super Bowls | FiveThirtyEight
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That's kind of funny, because I read something a few weeks ago where I guess the Redskins brought in someone to run analytics back in Gibbs' second coaching gig (sometime in the mid 2000's), and the guy lasted about 8 weeks before they said he was worthless and he was gone.

Edit: 2006.More N.F.L. Teams Hire Statisticians But Their Use Remains Mostly Guarded - NYTimes.com

Jeff Dominitz grew up rooting for the Washington Redskins during their glory years under Joe Gibbs. So when an N.F.L. team called him in 2006 about a job doing statistical research and analysis for the scouting department, he could not say no. He left his teaching position at Carnegie Mellon and, temporarily, his family and wound up living alone near the team's headquarters.

The first sign that Dominitz's work might not be fully embraced came when he reported to the team's facility. According to Dominitz, who has a Ph.D. in economics, he was told that the head coach had been informed about Dominitz after he was already hired. The coach's response, Dominitz was told, was, "We're still about people here." Dominitz then learned that he would be seated not with the scouting department, compiling detailed information about player prospects, but at a cubicle in a separate building, with the marketing department. Seven weeks later, Dominitz was gone.
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Rengak

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It's the Redskins. They probably hired one of the front office peoples kids who had no business doing the job.
 
Burnem Wizfyre

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Araysar_sl said:
Yeah, I hated when he left the Bears. The Bears were a top 5 ranked defense under him and Lovie. And 1 season later they are the worst ranked defense in the NFL.
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Rod much like the rest of the Dallas coaching staff doesn't have a contract next year and the big fear is he will run off to TB to join back up with Lovie, I hope Jerry pays the man and keeps him around.
 
moontayle

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Jerry's not shy about paying his assistant coaches. He should be able to get him to stick around for a few more years.

A thought occurred to me in the midst of all this Cutler drama... what if he somehow ends up in Philadelphia? We rag on him (a lot) but he's clearly an upgrade to both Foles and Sanchez and he might drink the Chip Koolaid enough to be dangerous and maybe overachieve to some level of actual success.
 
Kirun

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Elurin_sl said:
I think you're severely underestimating what Harbaugh brings. As a Redskins fan, I can tell you that the coaches absolutely make a HUGE difference. We've had so much turnover that it becomes very apparent. A top 5 defense with the same players can drop to the bottom of the league with a new guy.
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I never said Harbaugh was a bad coach. However, let's not beat around the bush and pretend like he's some sort of coaching savant either. Do I think he's a good coach? Yeah, I do. However, I don't think he's so far above other potential coaching prospects that the team wouldn't see the same/a similar level of success with another coach of his caliber. I'm just sick of Harbaugh getting all the credit for "turning the team around", when there's a shitload more to it than that. It's even more frustrating coming from fans of teams who have no clue where this franchise is at currently, let alone the last 10 years. If you think coaching alone is able to keep a ship afloat, look at Rex Ryan in New York. 2 straight AFC titles games and now where is he? Everybody agrees that he's a good coach, so it's obvious his front office/GM is doing him 0 favors. Like I said, there's more to it thanjustcoaching.

Elurin_sl said:
. But taking a team to the conference championship game several years in a row like Belichick and Harbaugh?That says something.As a fan (or really, a team), would you much rather have the scenario where you win it all and miss the playoffs the next year? Fuck yes. But throwing out your coach who gives you a shot and hoping the next guy can repeat is a pretty long shot.
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Oh, it says something? What, exactly, does it say? Rex Ryan took a team to 2 straight AFC championship games. Andy Reid took the Eagles to 5 straight playoff appearances, 4 straight NFC championships - 5 total appearances, 1 Super Bowl appearance, and 9 total playoff appearances in 14 years, before being run out of Philly. Reminds me again how the Eagles did after letting go of a coach with a such a consistent ability to get the job "almost" done? Oh, they went to the playoffs with a rookie coach from the college ranks? Yeah, NFC/AFC title appearances sure say something alright..

It's fucking amazing to me the "good will" a few NFC/AFC title games buys people, especially from the fans of teams that are complete shitshows. Of course you think NFC championship/playoff games are "good enough". You're a fan of a team who'd be elated just to have a .500 season. But like I said, "winning" doesn't excuse Harbaugh from creating a toxic environment. We don't like when players who have tons of talent are locker room cancers, yet it's no big deal when it comes from coaches, simply because they've had success? By all accounts, Harbaugh is extremely difficult to deal with, which is made very apparent by his sideline antics. If that's how he acts on thefield, imagine what he's like behind closed doors.

Chanur_sl said:
Not sure about Carroll's first go around as coachbut they have been to the playoffs 3 of the last 4 years including a superbowl win and likely will make it again this year. If you don't think Carroll had a part in that I don't know what to say to you.
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Of course you're not. You're part of the recent crop of NFL fans who have 0 attention span and think 2-3 years is indicative of the last 40. Do you remember Dan Marino's "clock play"? Probably not, because you just recently started watching the NFL. That play was against a Pete Carroll led Jets team. The Jets lost all of their remaining games that season, after that play. He then went on to be completely mediocre with the Patriots, getting canned after only 3 seasons. Carroll is really just another Harbaugh, honestly. A solid, good coach who's being propped up and made to look savant-like by a great GM in Seattle. Hell, Schneider also helped build the roster of the Green Bay Packers team that most recently won a Super Bowl.

I never said Carroll hadnothingto do with Seattle's success. The same way I'm not saying Harbaugh has nothing to do with San Francisco's. However, many fans are attributing nearly all of the success to the coach, which couldn't be further from the truth.
 
Araysar

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moontayle_sl said:
Jerry's not shy about paying his assistant coaches. He should be able to get him to stick around for a few more years.

A thought occurred to me in the midst of all this Cutler drama... what if he somehow ends up in Philadelphia? We rag on him (a lot) but he's clearly an upgrade to both Foles and Sanchez and he might drink the Chip Koolaid enough to be dangerous and maybe overachieve to some level of actual success.
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Is Cutler really an upgrade to Foles? Foles had an amazing season last year statwise but its hard to say whether thats because of Kelly's system or whether he is just that good.
 
Gravel

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Kirun_sl said:
It's fucking amazing to me the "good will" a few NFC/AFC title games buys people, especially from the fans of teams that are complete shitshows. Of course you think NFC championship/playoff games are "good enough". You're a fan of a team who'd be elated just to have a .500 season. But like I said, "winning" doesn't excuse Harbaugh from creating a toxic environment. We don't like when players who have tons of talent are locker room cancers, yet it's no big deal when it comes from coaches, simply because they've had success? By all accounts, Harbaugh is extremely difficult to deal with, which is made very apparent by his sideline antics. If that's how he acts on thefield, imagine what he's like behind closed doors.
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Give me a fucking break. A decade ago the Niners were one of those teams elated to have a .500 season. You sound like a fucking bandwagon fan now.
 
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I think Cutler would actually do pretty well in a Kelly type system. Let him use his talents, mobility and a big time arm instead of trying to always make him a west coast QB.

*edit* This was the worst case scenario for a Cutler run offense. No one respected the run, the team was always behind 21 points by the 2nd quarter and for all the praise the WR's get, Alshon, Marshall and Bennett are 3 of the exact same kind of receiver. Big and not overly quick or fast. Last year the chucks up to them worked, this year they didn't.
 
Araysar

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Kirun_sl said:
Of course you're not. You're part of the recent crop of NFL fans who have 0 attention span and think 2-3 years is indicative of the last 40. Do you remember Dan Marino's "clock play"? Probably not, because you just recently started watching the NFL. That play was against a Pete Carroll led Jets team. The Jets lost all of their remaining games that season, after that play. He then went on to be completely mediocre with the Patriots, getting canned after only 3 seasons. Carroll is really just another Harbaugh, honestly. A solid, good coach who's being propped up and made to look savant-like by a great GM in Seattle. Hell, Schneider also helped build the roster of the Green Bay Packers team that most recently won a Super Bowl.

I never said Carroll hadnothingto do with Seattle's success. The same way I'm not saying Harbaugh has nothing to do with San Francisco's. However, many fans are attributing nearly all of the success to the coach, which couldn't be further from the truth.
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Then he had that awful, awful, awful run at USC for 9 years.
 
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