NFL 2020 Season: Gravy Edition!

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Kaines

Kaines

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Merrith said:
When compared to Montana? The debate then was Montana was a perfect 4-0 in SB's, Brady won his first 3 but then lost 2 in a row to Eli fucking Manning, botching the perfect season with vintage Moss on his team in the process. Then his 4th ring was more "Seattle choked" rather than he won.
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I’m not denying sports commentators and fans make stupid arguments. But Brady’s numbers and career longevity sets him above everyone else.
 
Merrith

Merrith

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Kaines said:
I’m not denying sports commentators and fans make stupid arguments. But Brady’s numbers and career longevity sets him above everyone else.
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Well shit at this point it's not debatable. At that time 6, 7 years ago, the debate could have been had.

Also Montana v. Brady number do get into the whole "eras" thing with how much passing numbers have exploded. Montana had 500+ attempts twice in his entire career, and only topped 400 attempts in season 6 times total. In a full 16 game year Brady has only been below 500 attempts twice, and has had 600+ attempts 7 times.
 
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Kaines

Kaines

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Merrith said:
Well shit at this point it's not debatable. At that time 6, 7 years ago, the debate could have been had.

Also Montana v. Brady number do get into the whole "eras" thing with how much passing numbers have exploded. Montana had 500+ attempts twice in his entire career, and only topped 400 attempts in season 6 times total. In a full 16 game year Brady has only been below 500 attempts twice, and has had 600+ attempts 7 times.
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I’ll finish up my side of the debate with this.

If Brady had played the last 5 years the same way Manning played his last 2, and Brady still managed to make 3 more Super Bowl appearances and get 2 rings (so far), the debate between him and Montana would still be close.
 
Merrith

Merrith

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Kaines said:
I’ll finish up my side of the debate with this.

If Brady had played the last 5 years the same way Manning played his last 2, and Brady still managed to make 3 more Super Bowl appearances and get 2 rings (so far), the debate between him and Montana would still be close.
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I'm not sure if we're on the same page for what we're debating then. I don't think the debate between him and Montana is close at all anymore. I'm saying 6, 7 years ago whenever they beat Seattle for his 4th ring, I could understand if people still thought it was a debate. Just like if Rodgers had been with the Pats his whole career and won 4 rings in like 6 or 7 SB's in a similar fashion, I think there could still have been a debate at that point.

Also fwiw, Manning's 2nd to last season he still threw for over 4700 yards, 39 TD's and 15 Int. It was the injury towards the end of that regular season if I recall that pretty much nuked him and made it so their D carried him to the Super Bowl win his final year.
 
Regime

Regime

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Kaines said:
Exactly. Which is why Super Bowl appearances is a bullshit metric when comparing individual careers
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wtf GIF
 
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Kirun

Kirun

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Phazael said:
Montana is the only guy who I would put up in the same conversation with Brady as a potential GOAT. The guy saw the field in ways that made Rodgers look simple in comparison. But he also had arguably the best WR ever to play the game for most of his career.
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Arguably? Lol. The only argument to be having with Rice is if he wasn't also the greatest all-around football player ever.
 
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Merrith

Merrith

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Kirun said:
Arguably? Lol. The only argument to be having with Rice is it he wasn't also the greatest all-around football player ever.
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Buddy of mine constantly gets into these "if you had to win 1 game, are you picking Rice over Megatron or Moss at WR" stuff. Rice is like the reverse era argument, in that his numbers destroy everyone else's like Gretzky's due in hockey, and he had the disadvantage of playing in era where passing was reduced.
 
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Regime

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Kirun said:
Arguably? Lol. The only argument to be having with Rice is it he wasn't also the greatest all-around football player ever.
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I got to meet Jerry and Joe right after their super bowl win at a Walmart vendor party with my family and get pictures.

It was one of my top memories as a kid.
 
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Kirun

Kirun

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Merrith said:
Buddy of mine constantly gets into these "if you had to win 1 game, are you picking Rice over Megatron or Moss at WR" stuff. Rice is like the reverse era argument, in that his numbers destroy everyone else's like Gretzky's due in hockey, and he had the disadvantage of playing in era where passing was reduced.
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I can't even fucking imagine the kind of numbers Rice would have in today's NFL where you basically have to watch the receiver catch tbe ball before you can do anything.

He fucking shattered the record books so bigly that even guys that have played as long and are as good as Fitz still can't even touch him.
 
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Z

Zajeer

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DickTrickle said:
I think you also have to factor in, would all of those players taken the lower pay that Brady did? That was a huge thing for a number of years and directly impacted the team to a positive degree.
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You know I've been thinking about this thing since Aaron Rodgers started asking for more money - on one hand, he's doing what many of us do in our careers - go out and do well and then ask for a raise (now I know the economics and situations are slightly different, but motivation wise its pretty much what most people do) and I can't fault him - go get yours.

On the other hand, he's lowering the chances for success of the team, rather substantially, by asking for and getting paid more money. As a Bucs fan, I can admit Rodgers looks like the best QB in the game right now, but I'd still pick Tom Brady because his primary motivation is wins (or legacy) over money, where Rodgers isn't. And again - can't blame Rodgers - he's doing what most people do in their careers and a lot of us would pick that route if given the chance.
 
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Merrith

Merrith

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Zajeer said:
On the other hand, he's lowering the chances for success of the team, rather substantially, by asking for and getting paid more money.
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I mean, if your team is going to burn their 1st round pick (along with more draft capital since they traded up) on your potential replacement, versus maybe more receiving help or other areas they could have improved, why not ask for more cash? Not to mention drafting another RB when they had Jones and Williams going into this season.
 
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Z

Zajeer

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Lol, yeah, I mean, his employer basically hired a potential replacement and he has one of his best performing years ever. I don't know if I'd show my employer the same loyalty if it was me and instead go into mercenary mode
 
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jooka

jooka

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The GB front office is a massive fuck up and it is showing glaringly right now.
 
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Sterling

Sterling

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Kirun said:
I can't even fucking imagine the kind of numbers Rice would have in today's NFL where you basically have to watch the receiver catch tbe ball before you can do anything.

He fucking shattered the record books so bigly that even guys that have played as long and are as good as Fitz still can't even touch him.
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Rice had a long stretch in an innovative and great offense, plus he had a long career which will give you absurd career numbers. He was even still productive at age 94 in Oakland. The wildest thing for me with Rice was him having the single season TD record as long as he did and he did it during a 12 game strike shortened season. Calvin Johnson will always be my favorite receiver to watch though, that guy was ridiculous.
 
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zzeris

zzeris

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Sterling said:
Rice had a long stretch in an innovative and great offense, plus he had a long career which will give you absurd career numbers. He was even still productive at age 94 in Oakland.
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Shit, if a guy is still playing at age 94, not only is that amazing but no wonder none of the other WRs can catch him.

Edit- in all seriousness, Rice is the prime example of how fucking stupid the GOAT conversations in football are. It's not close to a 1 man team. Brady had Gronk, Moss, Edelman, Belichick, and great defenses for many of his years. That Bucs team is LOADED this year. Montana's teams had probably the greatest concentration of talent in the NFL at that time and one hell of a coach. It takes much more than a great QB or the Giants wouldn't have any rings much less 4.
 
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