Adebisi
Clump of Cells
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Overwatch
- Thread starter Caliane
- Start date
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
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Whidon
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Damn, I didn't see that bash nerf, thought it was just a nerf making it so you can't hit bash through shields.
Be interesting to see if this is finally enough to get her off the top win rate char in the game that she's been ever since they launched her. I was just thinking to myself the other day if that shield nerf doesn't work they would likely finally just nerf her hard to the point she might be unplayable.
The shield bash is def what makes her so good. I think it will be somewhat mitigated by using whip shot more as a finisher but it's not uncommon to see that little shield bash emblem murdering guys.
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shes been nice to counter genjis and tracers, but yeah she is super annoying almost like if the enemy team has one you have to have one too so itll be nice to not have that feeling, but then tracer and genji are gonna rape me as zenyatta now, so back to moira if i heal.
i always shield bash then whip shot usually is the killing blow on like a tracer or a genji, so that wont happen anymore. people will get away easier and then shell have bash on cooldown now, wont be any fun to play her, at least for me. i play her to kill people and still not take up a dps slot incase im playing like crap, but cant play like crap when you can kill someone in a stun =P
i always shield bash then whip shot usually is the killing blow on like a tracer or a genji, so that wont happen anymore. people will get away easier and then shell have bash on cooldown now, wont be any fun to play her, at least for me. i play her to kill people and still not take up a dps slot incase im playing like crap, but cant play like crap when you can kill someone in a stun =P
Valderen
Space Pirate
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- 2,812
I don't think the damage reduction on bash is what will hurt her the most, I think the bash not going through barrier will have a much worse impact on her.
The damage reduction will make it so she can't easily kill a tracer or genji, but it will still very much be a deterrent against both. She's going to counter dive, as stunning a diving Winston or D'va will still be possible, and it's not the 50 damage she did that killed them, it's the other 400-500 damage that the rest of the team did. Even just whip shot displacing a diving winston, d'va, tracer or genji will make an attack more difficult.
I'm curious as to how the healing buff will affect her healing though. It's a 25% buff to the healing on Inspire from 80 to 100, and increase duration from 5s to 6s. It seems like it could be a decent buff.
The thing is she will still be annoying to play against, you might not die as much to her, but you will get stunned just as much unless you're Reinhardt or behind a shield. Don't think it will change much against Winston or Orissa since their shield are static and it's easy to walk around them before shield bashing.
The damage reduction will make it so she can't easily kill a tracer or genji, but it will still very much be a deterrent against both. She's going to counter dive, as stunning a diving Winston or D'va will still be possible, and it's not the 50 damage she did that killed them, it's the other 400-500 damage that the rest of the team did. Even just whip shot displacing a diving winston, d'va, tracer or genji will make an attack more difficult.
I'm curious as to how the healing buff will affect her healing though. It's a 25% buff to the healing on Inspire from 80 to 100, and increase duration from 5s to 6s. It seems like it could be a decent buff.
The thing is she will still be annoying to play against, you might not die as much to her, but you will get stunned just as much unless you're Reinhardt or behind a shield. Don't think it will change much against Winston or Orissa since their shield are static and it's easy to walk around them before shield bashing.
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I think a good tracer or genji will just wipe the floor with you after the stun, theres no longer the fear of dying in a stun, i mean they already could recall out of it or have an orb on them in the first place but now its just like okay stun me brigette and let me get on with killing your healers since you cant catch me or kill me in a stun. at this point it'd be better to be a lucio or zen to counter genji's ult than a brig. i dont think the healing boost will be enough, shes already a weak healer, like a "third" string healer if you ask me, now you're making her suck more and barely increasing her healing.
she's going to be the torbjorn 1.0 everyone will be looking at you for throwing the game if you dont swap off her for a stronger healer. if youre fighting a mercy/moira or mercy/ana or moira/ana and your team has a brig healer + mercy/moira/ana you'll be at a disadvantage, and now your stun wont work through barriers and it wont do much damage so going into enemy lines to kill a healer wont be a guarantee anymore, mercy will fly away, moira fade away, youll probably get ana lucio or zen but its going to be a bitch without that stun damage. at that point just go zen or ana for long range damage or play an actual dps.
she's going to be the torbjorn 1.0 everyone will be looking at you for throwing the game if you dont swap off her for a stronger healer. if youre fighting a mercy/moira or mercy/ana or moira/ana and your team has a brig healer + mercy/moira/ana you'll be at a disadvantage, and now your stun wont work through barriers and it wont do much damage so going into enemy lines to kill a healer wont be a guarantee anymore, mercy will fly away, moira fade away, youll probably get ana lucio or zen but its going to be a bitch without that stun damage. at that point just go zen or ana for long range damage or play an actual dps.
Araxen
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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I just fear with the nerfs that Dive will be back. I like that she can kill Tracer's and Genji's too. Maybe things will be different since Roadhog is actually viable now and can kill people again. In the end, they shouldn't have created a hero to reign in a meta. They needed to make the proper balancing adjustments to reign in Dive, but they seem incapable of doing it.
I'm more sick of the new Doomfist since coming back to the game than Brigitte. I find her easily counterable in Gold. Doomfist not so much when he gets going.
I'm more sick of the new Doomfist since coming back to the game than Brigitte. I find her easily counterable in Gold. Doomfist not so much when he gets going.
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Valderen
Space Pirate
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I still think they need to introduce more heroes quickly so they can have a ban phase where 2-3 heroes are banned. That will most likely create a more diverse meta, and reduce the amount of one tricks. It won’t be a perfect solution but it would be a good start I think.
Araxen
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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They could do two heroes banned per match now I feel, but Tigoles seems very against the idea even if the roster had double the heroes it has now.
Ravishing
Uninspiring Title
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29 heroes in OW, 2 bans each = 4 total = 14% of the roster.
4 bans can cripple a role. There are only 6 support heroes for example.
1-tricks will get targeted, adding to toxicity.
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1 ban per team would probably be it, but then who decides the ban? Just adds more toxicity... "I told you to ban X !".
Seen this 1000000 times in League when all bans were decided by 1st pick.
If it's a vote process, maybe it'll be a little better, but what happens if it's not a decisive vote?
I do agree that bans could help eventually, but you probably need a roster of at least 40 (11 more heroes).
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I wonder if OW should experiment with a Pick phase. For example, every team can pick 12 heroes, which would mean every player can pick 2 heroes to add to the team's hero pool. Then during the game only those 12 are available, but can be used by any player on the team. So if I add Mei to the pool, all players on my team could access her (if she's not already being played)
Pick Phase might be 3 picks per turn. So after 4 rounds you get your 12 total. Could incorporate a ban phase which would be more fair after 1st round of picks so that one-tricks don't get countered so hard.
Of course this would increase the time it takes to get into games, so it would need to be a new competitive mode. (Tournament Mode?)
4 bans can cripple a role. There are only 6 support heroes for example.
1-tricks will get targeted, adding to toxicity.
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1 ban per team would probably be it, but then who decides the ban? Just adds more toxicity... "I told you to ban X !".
Seen this 1000000 times in League when all bans were decided by 1st pick.
If it's a vote process, maybe it'll be a little better, but what happens if it's not a decisive vote?
I do agree that bans could help eventually, but you probably need a roster of at least 40 (11 more heroes).
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I wonder if OW should experiment with a Pick phase. For example, every team can pick 12 heroes, which would mean every player can pick 2 heroes to add to the team's hero pool. Then during the game only those 12 are available, but can be used by any player on the team. So if I add Mei to the pool, all players on my team could access her (if she's not already being played)
Pick Phase might be 3 picks per turn. So after 4 rounds you get your 12 total. Could incorporate a ban phase which would be more fair after 1st round of picks so that one-tricks don't get countered so hard.
Of course this would increase the time it takes to get into games, so it would need to be a new competitive mode. (Tournament Mode?)
Araxen
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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I was thinking 1 ban per team and it would have to be voted on. I think you would have to do a 10-4 like voting system instead of everyone getting just 1 vote. Everyone gets 10 votes and you can vote multiple times for a hero. For example, I would give 6 votes to Doomfist, 2 to Mercy, and 2 to Genji. It would hopefully reduce ties. If a tie does happen then there is a runoff between the tie heroes.
SorrowsEnd
Trakanon Raider
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Each side should be able to ban 1 character.
For 6 stacks have the group leader choose. For pub games have it the most played time on the account.
They also need to add in forced class selection so if 2 people autolock dps then the next 2 must pick a tank and heals before opening it up for 2 more assholes to choose dps.
Tired of every fucking QP game having 5 dps + 1 dps ana or 6 dps. Not going to play comp all the time but I'd like some semblance of a workable group in QP. Forcing at least 1 tank and heals will help it slightly.
PS move that stupid hamster to a dps role. That piece of shit isn't a tank.
For 6 stacks have the group leader choose. For pub games have it the most played time on the account.
They also need to add in forced class selection so if 2 people autolock dps then the next 2 must pick a tank and heals before opening it up for 2 more assholes to choose dps.
Tired of every fucking QP game having 5 dps + 1 dps ana or 6 dps. Not going to play comp all the time but I'd like some semblance of a workable group in QP. Forcing at least 1 tank and heals will help it slightly.
PS move that stupid hamster to a dps role. That piece of shit isn't a tank.
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Valderen
Space Pirate
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Interesting observation from IDDQD about the nerfs on the PTR. Other pros seems to agree that the nerf will not affect GOATS, and Brigitte is essential to GOATS so she will still be played a lot as GOATS is the meta right now.
First the nerfs to Doomfist make GOATS stronger as he is one of the counter to GOATS.
Second the nerf to Brigitte will not have an effect on GOATS since her shield bash damage isn't what makes GOATS viable in the first place.
Third the nerf to Brigitte makes Reinhardt stronger since bashing him through his shield is a MAJOR counter to Reinhardt, and a stronger Reinhardt will just make GOATS even harder to counter.
So expect tons of GOATS vs GOATS with battles lasting even longer than currently.
Not sure if that's how it will pan out, but it's an interesting perspective in any case
First the nerfs to Doomfist make GOATS stronger as he is one of the counter to GOATS.
Second the nerf to Brigitte will not have an effect on GOATS since her shield bash damage isn't what makes GOATS viable in the first place.
Third the nerf to Brigitte makes Reinhardt stronger since bashing him through his shield is a MAJOR counter to Reinhardt, and a stronger Reinhardt will just make GOATS even harder to counter.
So expect tons of GOATS vs GOATS with battles lasting even longer than currently.
Not sure if that's how it will pan out, but it's an interesting perspective in any case
Araxen
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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Ive been away from OW so long I have no idea what GOATS even is
GOATS = 3 tanks + 3 supports(Usually Brig + Lucio + another healer)
Tanks are usually Rein/Zarya + another(usually D'Va, but I bet the new RH can be used now). There is Dive GOATS too which is D'Va + Winston + Hamster.
The meta is named after the open division team that invented the strategy.
Penance
Silver Baronet of the Realm
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1 ban per team but you can only ban 1 role so if the support role is already banned the other team has to pick another role. Would allow people with first ban to ban out heroes to be able to play their hero so you don't always get targetted banned or never able to play your favorite hero.
Now how to decide who has first ban? Seems abusive maybe. Maybe the real question is how to make it so 99% of games just don't end with the same two bans and a person never gets to play their favorite hero. Hmm.
Now how to decide who has first ban? Seems abusive maybe. Maybe the real question is how to make it so 99% of games just don't end with the same two bans and a person never gets to play their favorite hero. Hmm.
How does blizzard even approach balancing this game when games in gold and plat are radically different than the average GM/top 500 games. Were seeing characters introduced and ideas (hero bans, for example) being tossed around to deal with issues that are really only issues on top level play. Was Brig really necessary to help the dive meta in plat. Nope. Is GOATS overwhelming gold ranks, potentially making future brig and doomfist nerfs problematic? Nope. So many problems the game suffers from balance-wise are only problems in certain ranks. Reminds me of blizzard fucking up PvE in WoW in an effort to balance PvP.
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I wouldn't mind a separate game mode with banned heroes. The only people that can join it though are those with 10 hours played with 6 different heroes. I figure that's enough time to get comfortable with multiple heroes. Just see how that goes and if it goes well add it in to competitive.
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