Oxygen Not Included

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
<Gold Donor>
49,501
88,255
54389672890_5402ec899e_k.jpg


full res: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54389672890_ac065931c9_o.jpg

Spilling all the dumbass lava on the surface would've been faster than cooling off the entire thing, lol. I have no regrets.
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
<Gold Donor>
49,501
88,255
My sour gas boiler is done.

I basically ripped off of A Super Simple Sour Gas Boiler , lots of interesting techniques in that, including the vertically restrained heat transfer between sour gas and natural gas, and the usage of automation ribbon, gas pipe and heat pipes to transfer heat to the crude oil.

I view this as easily the most powerful factory in my base. It provides more power than I ever need, I think enough sulfur to completely switch my dupes to sweetles / grubgrub / grubfruit if I wanted to, more water than I need and a decent amount of dirt.

SourGas.jpg
 
Last edited:

sakkath

Trakanon Raider
1,855
1,144
That is pretty compact. Using bridges as an additional heat transfer mechanism is an interesting idea.
What's the throughput?
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
<Gold Donor>
49,501
88,255
I think I'm done with the game. My final base:

54396082088_41eff982e3_k.jpg


Full rez:


I think my favorite part is still the sweetles. I love these guys.

1742343958407.png


You can see that I cleared out my entire asteroid. I contemplated making the entire space livable by creating air flow, but didn't bother. I also didn't bother going to Coldini and then through the Temporal Tear.

Overall I love the game, A+++ fun.
 
Last edited:
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
<Gold Donor>
49,501
88,255
so. now you've played this, what are your thoughts on it, compared to Factorio?

I vastly prefer this, as well as, rimworld, etc. where I don't have direct control, and are instead giving orders to, and keeping the npcs alive. Feels like there is more purpose.
The secondary factor is the death spirals. germs causing sickness, sickness causing crops to rot on the vine, causing starvation, etc. things like that. when something goes wrong, it typically gets harder to fix, due to the problems it causes. dupes dying from your mistakes or poor planning.

So now that I think I'm done playing I'll give you a real answer.

There are two big (totally moddable) features that would really elevate this game for me personally:
  1. An expensive infinite research option
  2. More capable dupes

For #1, this could be a research tier that consumed highly valuable ingredients like niobium, brackene, steel, tungsten, some challenging plant produce, tons of power, water, etc. Maybe uranium and graphite (and added renewable resources if they didn't have it) while using significant amounts of duplicant labor. It doesn't really matter what it contributes but something like permanent but small geyser boosts (Like geotuner but infinitely stacking) or possibly something that improves dupes permanently like the neural vacillator. It kind of doesn't matter what the benefit is, as long as there's a science per hour metric to drive the creation of a megabase. I think fully automating spaceships are possible? So if they aren't, then add that as a feature too.

For #2, I'm thinking something that enables dupes to navigate across larger than 1 or 2 distances, build from further away, build through walls, be able to clean up world-space gas and liquid. These could be a deep tree of per-dupe unlocks from #1, or just be part of the base game, idc.

My reasoning for wanting #1 is that I crave an endgame and don't see an endgame for Oni. In these games I typically have a single playthrough and end the game with a megabase worth being proud of. For me there are two phases of these games, climbing the tech tree and then building the megabase. With the usage of thermium to create a sour gas boiler I feel like I've just finished the first phase and ended with this gross accumulation of broken, unoptimized or unused factories with a base occupied by unemployed dupes who have nothing to do but sit around, eat and sleep. There's no reason to bother with the second phase to make a megabase because all I would do is delete 70% of my base and then just have my dupes scheduled to spend the majority of the time partying or something. So I'm left kinda dissatisfied because my base is a shithole and there's no reason to make it better.

Conversely, you can see a vid of my Rimworld base for



which was designed after finishing the "first phase" where I climbed the "tech tree" and understood the mechanics. I built it by designing a concept that took advantage of the mechanics and ended up producing something beautiful, unique (or at least I haven't seen anything like it...) and effective that produced a stupid amount of gold per hour. My Factorio Space Exploration playthrough is similar, and has an absurdly vast factory that was able to continue to run flawlessly overnight and produce stupid amounts of research.

A lot of people enjoy starting a new save, with some different preconditions or different early game goals. This has never been appealing to me personally, but I get why people enjoy it.

My reasoning for wanting #2 is that the game starts with simple mechanics where the duplicants make the game lighthearted and fun as they engage in hijinx for basic builds. Then the game motivates the player to create increasingly complex factories to either deal with more complex challenges like heat or to acquire off-world resources or to simply take advantage of game mechanics like being able to boil crude oil into sour gas and then condense it into methane / sulfur. As the player advances the previously fun limitations and stupidity of duplicants transforms into frustration. The player is highly advised to perform experimentation, tuning and testing in a sandbox save and then only after the build has been fully vetted should the player switch to their real game and build the actual structure (I got a blueprint mod to help...) . Even with a fully tested factory, the building, gas/liquid filling and starting process has to be done meticulously. A screw up that causes state change damage, leaked gas, etc can require a huge effort to take apart, clean up and rebuild. Unlike other games, I felt less and less in control of the game as I played because the details of building the increasingly complex systems required increasing efforts to coordinate dupes at all levels.

So if I could utilize dupes to build through walls, change liquid/gas in a room, while not worrying about them getting trapped, I think I'd enjoy the game in the later stages more.

I've search for mods for both #1 and #2 and was surprised I didn't see anything. #1 is a key part of Factorio and other factory games, and not having it seems crazy. #2 is really just QOL and that's an extremely popular mod option. I think if there was a mod for #1 and #2 I'd play this game for like 100-200 more hours and probably enjoy it even more than the previous time spent.
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
<Gold Donor>
49,501
88,255
Which is fine and all but you're basically gonna be flushing 30-50 hours down the drain if you don't click on this spoiler. It's a single tip that covers something that's incredibly frustrating to learn on your own and still leaves you with plenty to figure out for yourself.

Dig out the entire starter biome and wall it off with insulated tiles, this has to be done in pretty much every single playthrough.

There's a fair bit of important mid to late-game stuff you'll most likely never learn on your own though.
This spoiler is untrue and also inadvisable. A base produces heat on its own and it's much better to use the surrounding area as a heatsink, especially for a new player that won't realize the threat of heat until it might be too late, and wrapping their base in insulation would accelerate that.. The below image is early days in my save and you can see how the yellow areas near the starter biome are relatively cool.

1742344621791.png


Beyond that, every biome is wrapped in abyssalite which is a very good insulator, so walling off the biome would be pointless compared to just walling off hotter areas if the base intersects them.
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
<Gold Donor>
49,501
88,255
I don't think it counts as help because it's too late to implement it now without doing an incredibly tedious remodel but I'll put it in spoilers to respect your stubbornness

You should have a primary transit column that is a 3 square wide gap so there is room for a ladder, fire pole, and eventually a transit tube. The fire pole alone will allow for much faster dupe travel.

There's a couple other things I want to comment on from that screenshot but I'll refrain even though they're driving me crazy.
I ended up redoing my base at some point and added some firepoles. I also created an internal tube transfer system as soon as I unlocked the tech but it was mostly a waste since I didn't have enough power generation to supply it until much later. The external tube system was super fun for my dupes.

One of the goals I had was to make the entire asteroid livable and have a single tube system, but didn't bother.



Feel free to comment on my final base but note that I find every part of it gross.
 
Last edited:

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
<Gold Donor>
49,501
88,255
Yeah I can see the first thing I put in spoilers coming down the tracks like a fully loaded freight train. I'll grant that he's lasted quite a bit longer than my first couple colonies did but ONI was my first colony sim type game.

Six wheezeworts are not gonna keep his base from getting too hot for farming. That iron volcano on the middle left isn't insulated all the way around, the water on the bottom right is all probably ~90c, nothing to insulate him from the higher starting heat of the caustic biomes he's dug into, and that polymer press is way too close to his core.
That volcano that I was too ignorant and careless to seal off ended up being a hilarious nuisance. It basically cooked every biome around it before I realized it was a problem. I drowned it repeatedly with several frozen biomes before it stopped being a hellhole cursing my asteroid.
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
<Gold Donor>
49,501
88,255
Same, I've been keeping that volcano in his screenshots. I'd love to see the thermal overlay. It's probably good luck (or maybe conscious choice) that he went from mush bars to grubfruit for his food. If he was on mealwood my guess is his dupes would be starving already.
I wouldn't call it luck because the pacu farm and hatch farm I only tried after running out of sulfur (lol) was soooooo much better than my sweetles. But I love the sweetles so I forgive them for blinding me to the obvious food sources.
 

Gavinmad

Mr. Poopybutthole
44,428
53,880
This spoiler is untrue and also inadvisable. A base produces heat on its own and it's much better to use the surrounding area as a heatsink, especially for a new player that won't realize the threat of heat until it might be too late, and wrapping their base in insulation would accelerate that.
It's weird that you've mastered the game so thoroughly but somehow think that I meant to build high heat builds on the same side of the insulation as your residential/farming area. I'll concede that it may be an archaic and maybe even bordering on obsolete strat at this point given how long ago it was developed (and this was by no means something I came up with by myself, it was a very common thing to do) but it is by no means 'untrue and inadvisable'.
 

sakkath

Trakanon Raider
1,855
1,144
Tuco hit the nail on the head with his comment which was the same reason why I called BS on that advice originally.
Excavating deletes a heat sink. It's the excavation advice that is bad. Tiling in your base with insulated tiles is not really bad it's just a waste of time in most circumstances.

I've done dozens of different starts in ONI and from memory only once have I ever walled in my base and even then I mostly used diagonal vacuuming more than insulated tiles, and in that case it was because I was playing a custom start with magma channels and volcanos inside the starting biome.

In one other start, on Ceres, I moved my dupes home away to the edge of the map and surrounded it with insulated tiles so I could keep the rest of the asteroid including the starter biome at -30c and not have the dupes constantly freezing.
 

sakkath

Trakanon Raider
1,855
1,144
So you've just got the base game right, so no nuclear power? Do you have / did you use the resin tree?
I haven't played without spaced out for so long that I forget what the base game is like.
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
<Gold Donor>
49,501
88,255
So you've just got the base game right, so no nuclear power? Do you have / did you use the resin tree?
I haven't played without spaced out for so long that I forget what the base game is like.
I bought all the DLC in a pack, which includes spaced out. I never used resin or the resin tree, or went to the asteroid with the resin tree. I never considered using the Research Reactor because I never integrated with a source of renewable uranium. There are four sources on my map, but I never automated rockets to collect the resources. I got all my radbolts from wheezeworts and only really ever needed a bunch when I briefly used them to yeet water to Magnoli with the Interplanetary Launcher.

The sour gas boiler I have generates a pretty cosnistent 800 * 5 *5 + ~1000 watts, so about 21kW, while consuming 5*240 + 1200 + ~500 or 3kW. So it's more than absically any base I'd have reason to create with the 16 dupes I have now, which is like 14 more dupes than I need for anything.

It would be cool if Oni had the kind of endgame I described above that would motivate a player to consume more than this, and I still think it's a bit crazy that doesn't exist.
 
Last edited:

sakkath

Trakanon Raider
1,855
1,144
Research reactor is not only good for power but also for a limitless and ever increasing supply of radiation. Radiation for mutating crops, launching radbolt rockets and using interplanetary launcher. 10,000 radbolts a minute is realistic with a research reactor. Want a fully automated logistics system to constantly transport resources and supplies between all of the asteroids? Achievable with limitless radiation. You can build habited bases on every asteroid and ship whatever is needed to all of them. You could for example ship power to all of them by launching frozen methane from your sour gas boiler.

You don't really need a renewable supply of uranium as the reactor consumes it extremely slowly. The uranium that spawns on the radioactive planetoid will run a research reactor for 10,000 cycles. And if you want renewable, launch a drillcone rocket to one of the harvestable asteroids once every 100 cycles, that will be enough.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
<Gold Donor>
49,501
88,255
Research reactor is not only good for power but also for a limitless and ever increasing supply of radiation. Radiation for mutating crops, launching radbolt rockets and using interplanetary launcher. 10,000 radbolts a minute is realistic with a research reactor. Want a fully automated logistics system to constantly transport resources and supplies between all of the asteroids? Achievable with limitless radiation. You can build habited bases on every asteroid and ship whatever is needed to all of them. You could for example ship power to all of them by launching frozen methane from your sour gas boiler.

You don't really need a renewable supply of uranium as the reactor consumes it extremely slowly. The uranium that spawns on the radioactive planetoid will run a research reactor for 10,000 cycles. And if you want renewable, launch a drillcone rocket to one of the harvestable asteroids once every 100 cycles, that will be enough.
Yeah I did some seed mutating, which is a pretty neat feature. I created a wild crop of mutated exuberant sleat wheats

1742383840369.png


I literally never used any of their produce because the berry sludge I made prior was enough for my trips, and then they all died because that room got too cold :D I did kind of want to make a seed replicator, but never really needed to.

 

Caliane

Avatar of War Slayer
15,902
12,545
So now that I think I'm done playing I'll give you a real answer.

There are two big (totally moddable) features that would really elevate this game for me personally:
  1. An expensive infinite research option
  2. More capable dupes

For #1, this could be a research tier that consumed highly valuable ingredients like niobium, brackene, steel, tungsten, some challenging plant produce, tons of power, water, etc. Maybe uranium and graphite (and added renewable resources if they didn't have it) while using significant amounts of duplicant labor. It doesn't really matter what it contributes but something like permanent but small geyser boosts (Like geotuner but infinitely stacking) or possibly something that improves dupes permanently like the neural vacillator. It kind of doesn't matter what the benefit is, as long as there's a science per hour metric to drive the creation of a megabase. I think fully automating spaceships are possible? So if they aren't, then add that as a feature too.

For #2, I'm thinking something that enables dupes to navigate across larger than 1 or 2 distances, build from further away, build through walls, be able to clean up world-space gas and liquid. These could be a deep tree of per-dupe unlocks from #1, or just be part of the base game, idc.

My reasoning for wanting #1 is that I crave an endgame and don't see an endgame for Oni. In these games I typically have a single playthrough and end the game with a megabase worth being proud of. For me there are two phases of these games, climbing the tech tree and then building the megabase. With the usage of thermium to create a sour gas boiler I feel like I've just finished the first phase and ended with this gross accumulation of broken, unoptimized or unused factories with a base occupied by unemployed dupes who have nothing to do but sit around, eat and sleep. There's no reason to bother with the second phase to make a megabase because all I would do is delete 70% of my base and then just have my dupes scheduled to spend the majority of the time partying or something. So I'm left kinda dissatisfied because my base is a shithole and there's no reason to make it better.

Conversely, you can see a vid of my Rimworld base for



which was designed after finishing the "first phase" where I climbed the "tech tree" and understood the mechanics. I built it by designing a concept that took advantage of the mechanics and ended up producing something beautiful, unique (or at least I haven't seen anything like it...) and effective that produced a stupid amount of gold per hour. My Factorio Space Exploration playthrough is similar, and has an absurdly vast factory that was able to continue to run flawlessly overnight and produce stupid amounts of research.

A lot of people enjoy starting a new save, with some different preconditions or different early game goals. This has never been appealing to me personally, but I get why people enjoy it.

My reasoning for wanting #2 is that the game starts with simple mechanics where the duplicants make the game lighthearted and fun as they engage in hijinx for basic builds. Then the game motivates the player to create increasingly complex factories to either deal with more complex challenges like heat or to acquire off-world resources or to simply take advantage of game mechanics like being able to boil crude oil into sour gas and then condense it into methane / sulfur. As the player advances the previously fun limitations and stupidity of duplicants transforms into frustration. The player is highly advised to perform experimentation, tuning and testing in a sandbox save and then only after the build has been fully vetted should the player switch to their real game and build the actual structure (I got a blueprint mod to help...) . Even with a fully tested factory, the building, gas/liquid filling and starting process has to be done meticulously. A screw up that causes state change damage, leaked gas, etc can require a huge effort to take apart, clean up and rebuild. Unlike other games, I felt less and less in control of the game as I played because the details of building the increasingly complex systems required increasing efforts to coordinate dupes at all levels.

So if I could utilize dupes to build through walls, change liquid/gas in a room, while not worrying about them getting trapped, I think I'd enjoy the game in the later stages more.

I've search for mods for both #1 and #2 and was surprised I didn't see anything. #1 is a key part of Factorio and other factory games, and not having it seems crazy. #2 is really just QOL and that's an extremely popular mod option. I think if there was a mod for #1 and #2 I'd play this game for like 100-200 more hours and probably enjoy it even more than the previous time spent.

That is an interesting point on the endgame. Oni does at some point have a "solved" point. there is no continuous threat. base defense. no escalating "storyteller" and RNG Events.

proc gen is at the start of the game, and there is some variance in biomes, and which geyser/animals/seeds you get. but ultimately, playthrough strats will end up being the same.

replay is often about that constant attempts to perfect system designs.


Most people do take 3-5 bases that fail due to unforeseen issues before getting to that end game.
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
<Gold Donor>
49,501
88,255
That is an interesting point on the endgame. Oni does at some point have a "solved" point. there is no continuous threat. base defense. no escalating "storyteller" and RNG Events.

proc gen is at the start of the game, and there is some variance in biomes, and which geyser/animals/seeds you get. but ultimately, playthrough strats will end up being the same.

replay is often about that constant attempts to perfect system designs.


Most people do take 3-5 bases that fail due to unforeseen issues before getting to that end game.
That description of typical replayability seems pretty common from what I've been reading about the Oni community and it seems weird to me. Compared to other similar games, Oni's biggest differentiator is its handling of fluids, gases, temperatures, state changes, "alchemy" and how it enables the creation of the crazy system designs as simple as the hydra or as complex as the sour gas boiler I made. The upper bound on how crazy these machines get is super high, but by the time an experienced player builds them they kinda serve no purpose because there is no gameplay driver for them.

It feels like playing Minecraft without enchanting, Dyson Sphere Program without dyson spheres or EverQuest without raids.