Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

EQ iOS i am betting... but has that already been debunked ?

Mr Creed_sl said:

Would love that 'no levels' part. Grind is overrated, quest grind, dungeon grind, AA grind, bg grind, whatever. No levels at least lets me pick where I want to play that day instead of being funneled into 1-2 zones. Of course you would have to design for it and not just plop into an EQ clone.

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Without some sort of grind, how do you justify having an open persistent world? I personally loved the XP grind in EQ. I hated the quest grind in wow. I played a warrior in EQ and was required to xp grind in a group, that probably explained why I liked it so much. I understand other people/classes have had completely different opinions on that. It just seems as if the current model is moving away from the need to have a persistent world. Why keep a persistent world when they are developing games that would work just as well with a lobby. Log in, queue up for group/raid and get your shit done. The grind has been made so trivial in current games it's a complete turn off. Look at wow/rift/etc.

Either make it meaningful or remove it.

I didn't mind the grind in EQ because most of the time we were trying to get a drop. There were times we were just trying to grind out some AAs or hell levels, but most of the time we would have been where we were even if we weren't getting exp. It's one of the things that bores me about modern games in the genre. Everything is just given out vendor style, usually through quests or random drops, so there's no need to do anything beyond what the quest tells you to do. Which, sure, eliminates the mob grinding, but I'd rather choose to grind because I'm trying to accomplish something over being led by the balls by quests telling me what I have to do and the second it's done feeling like that part of the world is irrelevant.

One of the reasons I still like Vanguard and its design is even when you're sent to an area or to kill a named there's at least some reason to stick around and kill shit for a few unique drops.

These games are in large part about killing shit and loot so you can get more powerful and kill more shit, and I guess I don't mind grinding when its involving those two main aspects of these games. To me, that was the great story in EQ, not being led around by quests that try, but have never really been able to set up reasons for killing mobs quite as well as them simply having loot you want.

Bellringer_sl said:

Without some sort of grind, how do you justify having an open persistent world? I personally loved the XP grind in EQ. I hated the quest grind in wow. I played a warrior in EQ and was required to xp grind in a group, that probably explained why I liked it so much. I understand other people/classes have had completely different opinions on that. It just seems as if the current model is moving away from the need to have a persistent world. Why keep a persistent world when they are developing games that would work just as well with a lobby. Log in, queue up for group/raid and get your shit done. The grind has been made so trivial in current games it's a complete turn off. Look at wow/rift/etc.

Either make it meaningful or remove it.

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Oh you got me wrong there, I want level-based hit/miss chances and hp inflation gone. Imo your character is stronger vs older content without that barrier turning you into superman. AA-style progression and even getting better can stay, just not to a point where only a tiny fraction of the world is relevant to me and the rest is a yawn. Similar GW2 with *very* small eventual stat increases though skill points and exploration, reputation/factions/vanity/rare-drops/collections instead of the simple gold farm that's pretty much the summary of the GW2 pve.

popsicledeath_sl said:

I didn't mind the grind in EQ because most of the time we were trying to get a drop. There were times we were just trying to grind out some AAs or hell levels, but most of the time we would have been where we were even if we weren't getting exp. It's one of the things that bores me about modern games in the genre. Everything is just given out vendor style, usually through quests or random drops, so there's no need to do anything beyond what the quest tells you to do. Which, sure, eliminates the mob grinding, but I'd rather choose to grind because I'm trying to accomplish something over being led by the balls by quests telling me what I have to do and the second it's done feeling like that part of the world is irrelevant.

One of the reasons I still like Vanguard and its design is even when you're sent to an area or to kill a named there's at least some reason to stick around and kill shit for a few unique drops.

These games are in large part about killing shit and loot so you can get more powerful and kill more shit, and I guess I don't mind grinding when its involving those two main aspects of these games. To me, that was the great story in EQ, not being led around by quests that try, but have never really been able to set up reasons for killing mobs quite as well as them simply having loot you want.

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great post. i agree with this. the grind wasn't as bad (or didn't seem as bad) in EQ because there was always a chance for a rare named with the rare loot. it was just enough incentive to keep you logged in for hours past when you knew you had to go.

etchazz_sl said:

great post. i agree with this. the grind wasn't as bad (or didn't seem as bad) in EQ because there was always a chance for a rare named with the rare loot. it was just enough incentive to keep you logged in for hours past when you knew you had to go.

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Yeah. There's something to killing mobs for loot that doesn't need over-thunk and drown out by too many features or systems. And I don't think it's just nostalgia. Only parts of WoW vanilla I really remember were ignoring the next quest and farming names in areas that didn't have quests, especially because the loot felt at least a little unique. Or as a hunter looking for rare nameds to charm. There's a simple beauty in waiting to kill something, then getting to kill it, then having some sort of trophy for it. Or not getting the trophy still gives you a good story.

Screw all these quests and token turn-in loot vending machine mechanics. I want a game that's an immersive, coherent world with places to explore and unique mobs.... for me to murder.

Hell, I still remember how fun it was in my 20s in EQ fighting down to the bottom of Runnyeye because it really felt like the goblins lived there, and they'd been a pain in the ass for a good 20 levels, but hah, fuckers, I just killed your king and stole your riches! Instead of just going to some scripted, linear 'dungeon' and running through it once for the quest rewards, I want a reason to either slaughter or not slaughter all those inhabiting a dungeon. I think we need mechanics that give MORE reason to really get to know a zone/dungeon and learn its intricacies and to farm the shit out of it. Even if it's just stuff like making it so at some point I can kill enough goblins and steal enough of their king's wealth they're no longer kos and instead cower as I pass, giving me free access to their shops and beds and goblin women!

Maybe I'm a sociopath, but when a mob pisses me off I don't want to get a token from them to turn in for an items. I want to infiltrate their homes, slaughter them, and steal what is precious to them.

Really, think about how many dungeons were based on being where mobs LIVED in EQ, compared to later mmos where there's just a dungeon full of mobs that seem to be there for no fucking reason. There's something to it.

pharmakos_sl said:

its pretty funny that this thread is 100 pages long now

all based on, what, three sentences from twitter?

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Hope springs eternal. The less we know about the project the more amazing (or catastrophic) it can remain in our heads.

It's based on dreams and wishes!

It absolutely could be, depending on what tools and tech they're using. If they're creating everything in-house from scratch, absolutely not. However, if they're using existing tech, it's definitely possible to have some rough models up, some rough UI, some rough landscape to run around in. We really just don't know.

I think there should be a rule once the kickstarter goes live that you are required to put into your sig the amount of money you pledged.

I'm not expecting much more than a general statement of intent for gameplay/tech and some concept art. Maybe if we're lucky some examples of character models.

They are gonna show off a concept town in EQ landmark.

pharmakos_sl said:

its pretty funny that this thread is 100 pages long now

all based on, what, three sentences from twitter?

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Honestly its based on the fact that as far as "old school" MMOs go, this may be our only shot.