Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Flipmode

Flipmode

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Dullahan said:
Never understood this philosophy. This is a chicken and the egg argument. You hit both with the hammer. Supply and demand. Even if demand gives rise to more supply, it's a double win to take both down.
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Ideally it would be great to get them both. I don't believe this is a chicken vs egg argument. In the case of MMOs, demand most definitely gave rise to the suppliers. In a game with a long leveling curve and no easy way to get back to the top, who is going to be willing to risk the 3-6 months of work or more if they know you're watching and will ban them? Especially if they tie the account to a real life name too. Seems better to target the source and not the symptoms.
 
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Ukerric

Ukerric

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Ambiturner said:
What if the seller just gives away random gold to random people?
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What incentive is there to do that? They don't get money from it.

Contrary to what you think, they're not in there for trolling. They might be doing that as an investment if they thought there was a chance it would reverse the policy, but that's possibly a sucker bet. Are they going to throw away thousands of $ to try to have their customers happy?

(the question underlying this is: how expensive will it be to appeal and review customer bans vs the deterrent of banhammer)
 
Ambiturner

Ambiturner

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Ukerric said:
What incentive is there to do that? They don't get money from it.

Contrary to what you think, they're not in there for trolling. They might be doing that as an investment if they thought there was a chance it would reverse the policy, but that's possibly a sucker bet. Are they going to throw away thousands of $ to try to have their customers happy?

(the question underlying this is: how expensive will it be to appeal and review customer bans vs the deterrent of banhammer)
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Not sure why you think I'm talking about "thousands of dollars". It would just be a bit here and there to make it a bad business decision to ban buyers when it means taking out innocent accounts as well.
 
ili

ili

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so Perception is just Diplomacy from Vanguard.
They seriously are just making Vanguard 2.0 aren't they?
 
Hekotat

Hekotat

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ili said:
so Perception is just Diplomacy from Vanguard.
They seriously are just making Vanguard 2.0 aren't they?
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If it functions this time around I will be completely okay with that.
 
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Dullahan

Dullahan

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ili said:
so Perception is just Diplomacy from Vanguard.
They seriously are just making Vanguard 2.0 aren't they?
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I'd say it's more a combination of storytelling, questing and puzzles. It does create a way to affect the world outside of combat, and in that there are similarities. Pretty big stretch to compare them directly to each other.
 
TJT

TJT

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One thing I do credit Brad for and his, "visions" is that he is willing to do some wild development. Put in totally experimental game design choices right into production because fuck it, that's cool.

While Vanguard did eat it. It did a some things very well and I hope he does include those things that DID work well in Pantheon. He'd be stupid not to.
 
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kudos

kudos

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Brad needs to introduce a Legends of Norrath style card game. EQ was like the Microsoft of the MMO genre. They made all these great additions but did it half assed until someone like Blizzard took the idea and polished it (Apple).
 
xzi

xzi

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TJT said:
One thing I do credit Brad for and his, "visions" is that he is willing to do some wild development. Put in totally experimental game design choices right into production because fuck it, that's cool.

While Vanguard did eat it. It did a some things very well and I hope he does include those things that DID work well in Pantheon. He'd be stupid not to.
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MMOs aren't really a great game development space to innovate and experiment unless you just have an absurd amount of funding; like blizzard. So I do give him credit for that as well. I just hope some of his ideas can actually be fully implemented this time around.
 
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tad10

tad10

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I saw the recent gameplay on youtube - even given that the guy was told where to go and what to do by Brad -- it is looking like VR might actually produce a game before the Apocalypse occurs. Insipid hashtag to follow. #Monk4Ever
 
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tad10

tad10

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zzeris said:
Exactly. It also hinders the ability to provide new items and experiences. The developers(which are newer to developing games), would now have to work around all the bad game design they previously did to cater to a small subset of the population. People always talk about how they love that EQ gear can be used forever. Game developers hate that shit. When they make new expansions, they either have to go even further overboard to get players to be wowed by new gear, or no one wants it. .
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Worst/Most Idiotic part of WoW was the gear resets. Gear should last. Raid gear should last even longer. Long lasting gear has long-term effects: top-end guilds work on new raids for newest gear, while Friends & Family guilds that couldn't hack old raids with old level cap work on old raids having gained 5+ levels. Long lasting gear gets around the problem of incompetent/indolent/low-time-to-raid raiding guilds. Everyone gets to see all the content, just not at the same time.

Content is hard to create, so use needs to be maximized.
 
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Q

qwertyqweqwertwqert

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tad10 said:
Gear should last. Raid gear should last even longer.
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That was one of the things that pissed me off the most about EQ. I busted my balls getting raid gear from classic EQ, doing hellish Fear and Hate raids, insane numbers of hours, battling with the RNG god bastards. I would get in the raid Friday evening, and it would run all weekend... I would stay up all night Friday, then crash early Saturday and then join back in whenever I woke up, and go all Saturday night as well, and it would all fizzle out sometime on Sunday. Seems some people just stayed awake for the entire weekend somehow. But even so it took forever to get the items, I eventually had everything except the BP which refused to drop, but I must have spent 200 hours on that stuff. And then Kunark was released a month later and it was all instantly completely obsolete - everything, every piece of armor, the weapons, the belt, everything. That killed my motivation and love for EQ more than anything. I never played the game hardcore again after that. I started slacking off and levelling lots of alts, I would do occasional raids and leave disappointed but resist the urge to do it again hoping for better luck. My love for EQ basically died with Kunark once I saw how the game worked. Not long after that I moved to Winters Roar which did all of this in a much better way.
 
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Byr

Byr

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Dullahan said:
Never understood this philosophy. This is a chicken and the egg argument. You hit both with the hammer. Supply and demand. Even if demand gives rise to more supply, it's a double win to take both down.
Click to expand...

Why spend money on either? RMT doesnt actually effect a vast majority of players experience other than having to ignore spam bots. Just make a news post saying you banned 5,000 accounts every now and then and your players will be satisfied.
 
Q

qwertyqweqwertwqert

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It does effect people. For a start it causes inflation in the prices. If people struggle to sell stuff at 100p they start trying 95p and then someone tries to undercut them and sell it for 90p and shit gets cheaper and cheaper. That is how economies work. But if some douche buys a million plat with real cash and goes around buying up everything in the bazaar, people keep their prices high because they are holding out for the big spenders. That affects everyone.

As much as I still like playing EQ, you can now buy a Krono and sell it in game for 2.4 million plat. That is fucked up. And it translates directly to prices because if you start from fresh in the game now, you still see people selling crappy old school loot for 10k just because anything less than that is not even worth their time visiting the bazaar. An old rich player could buy that with 0.0001% of what they have in the bank, but a new player would play for several months or more before they even get close to that kind of money. Not only that but the price of endgame items is now "WTS Whatever Sword of Endgameness 8 krono". So you just can't buy endgame loot with plat anymore, you buy that item for $120. And the idea was that you could grind for plat to buy yourself a krono and get a membership for a month, but when one costs 2.4m plat... you would be working full time for that $15. Game is fucked.

You also have the issue of people competing with each other for gear. If you are a casual player and try to find groups and guilds with gear you camped yourself and bought with the tiny amounts of cash you saved up from selling bag after bag of fine steel weapons... You have to compete with people who just spend $15 and get a million plat and buy the best of everything for every slot in one go. I saw this happen first hand in EQ. Someone would ninja an item from their raid, sell it on playerauctions for serious money, and someone else would buy it and end up with a super geared twink that took the place of lots of long term players.

RMT is really bad for a legit game.
 
ZyyzYzzy

ZyyzYzzy

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tad10 said:
Worst/Most Idiotic part of WoW was the gear resets. Gear should last. Raid gear should last even longer. Long lasting gear has long-term effects: top-end guilds work on new raids for newest gear, while Friends & Family guilds that couldn't hack old raids with old level cap work on old raids having gained 5+ levels. Long lasting gear gets around the problem of incompetent/indolent/low-time-to-raid raiding guilds. Everyone gets to see all the content, just not at the same time.

Content is hard to create, so use needs to be maximized.
Click to expand...
Into WotLK sunwell gesr lasted for a bit at 80 at least :(
 
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ZyyzYzzy

ZyyzYzzy

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qwertyqweqwertwqert said:
That was one of the things that pissed me off the most about EQ. I busted my balls getting raid gear from classic EQ, doing hellish Fear and Hate raids, insane numbers of hours, battling with the RNG god bastards. I would get in the raid Friday evening, and it would run all weekend... I would stay up all night Friday, then crash early Saturday and then join back in whenever I woke up, and go all Saturday night as well, and it would all fizzle out sometime on Sunday. Seems some people just stayed awake for the entire weekend somehow. But even so it took forever to get the items, I eventually had everything except the BP which refused to drop, but I must have spent 200 hours on that stuff. And then Kunark was released a month later and it was all instantly completely obsolete - everything, every piece of armor, the weapons, the belt, everything. That killed my motivation and love for EQ more than anything. I never played the game hardcore again after that. I started slacking off and levelling lots of alts, I would do occasional raids and leave disappointed but resist the urge to do it again hoping for better luck. My love for EQ basically died with Kunark once I saw how the game worked. Not long after that I moved to Winters Roar which did all of this in a much better way.
Click to expand...
Not sure if serious? A lot of vanillanl items were BiS still, really until you were clearing VP.
 
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Ambiturner

Ambiturner

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ZyyzYzzy said:
Not sure if serious? A lot of vanillanl items were BiS still, really until you were clearing VP.
Click to expand...

Nothing he posts should be taken seriously. First he posts how he hates gear resets which are there to lower the barrier of entry for newer players, then he complains about gold farmers because it raises the barrier of entry for newer players.
 
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